Having moments of liberation - wanting more!

[BlueRacoon]

Thank you for the exercise Henri! I enjoyed it!

My initial experience was that the “I am” label was exhausting especially as I was trying to label everything and there are a lot of things going on to label! I’m not sure if that was linguistically or otherwise, but it was just so much more peaceful and effortless to notice the flow of activity (seeing, thinking, sensing) without the I am label.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

It seems more accurate to just notice “driving” rather than “I am driving.” What I found was that I was driving or looking or thinking without any initiation from a “me” - it was just happening. I didn’t even choose where I was looking. Something would “catch my eye,” such as motion or color. There was no I choosing to look before the looking happened.

I notice my mind popping up with a thought- wondering if I’m just giving you the “right” answer - but it really did seem experientially true that all of the actions happened without forethought from an I.

2. What is here without labels?

If I understand the question (what is here without the I label) - I’d say that what is present without the “I” label is just consciousness, witnessing life through the vehicle of this specific body.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

The I label absolutely changes the experience. Without the label, there is a peaceful, passive awareness simply watching life unfurl. With the I, there is a sense of active doing / controlling of the experience. For example, I never was so clear about the fact that I do not choose where I look. It just happens. I do not choose the next thing my body does, it just happens. It is clearer that the “control” over all of that is an illusion.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I definitely had a sense of greater relaxation in the second mode without the I label. It was lighter to just watch and allow whatever was there.

[Bluejay]

My initial experience was that the “I am” label was exhausting especially as I was trying to label everything and there are a lot of things going on to label! I’m not sure if that was linguistically or otherwise, but it was just so much more peaceful and effortless to notice the flow of activity (seeing, thinking, sensing) without the I am label.

Yes. Usually when we say "I" or "me" there is a corresponding contraction somewhere in the body (head, chest, gut), and it comes with a lot of mental gymnastics (future, past, etc).

I notice my mind popping up with a thought- wondering if I’m just giving you the “right” answer - but it really did seem experientially true that all of the actions happened without forethought from an I.

Great observations!

I definitely had a sense of greater relaxation in the second mode without the I label. It was lighter to just watch and allow whatever was there.

Exactly. The difference can be surprising!

Okay, here's the next pointer...

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts about something, because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought about ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk about can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

- Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
- Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
- Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Enjoy and let me know what you find out :)

[BlueRacoon]

I went with eggs (I hope that's okay). My husband offered to make me some. :-D

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

Before heading downstairs, I had an image of the eggs on his plate that I saw earlier - white plate, yellow eggs, red salsa. I was aware of how those might feel in my stomach and affect my energy throughout the day.

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts about something, because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

When I went downstairs, my experience (labeled) was:

Sight - White plate, yellow and white scrambled eggs. Black flecks of pepper.
Smell - Buttery, savory smell
Sensation - Warm, creamy
Taste - Buttery, savory, pepper

I was aware after having the eggs, that the visual was different, and when I thought about an egg then, I saw an actual white egg, and I thought of our chickens. I was aware that "egg" could describe/mean multiple things, and that it didn't describe what I actually saw, smelled, and ate. It is just an idea/concept, that is helpful in communication with another person.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought about ‘apple’? Is an apple actually known?

Not really. You can't eat a label. ;-) And the label isn't the thing that is in expeirence.

I was able to use your question of "What is known for sure?" last night in a distressful moment with my husband. It was very helpful because I could easily see what was real in my experience (what I could truly know) and that helped me more clearly see and separate actual experience from thoughts. While before I could see the "mental gymnastics" I was doing - about the past, the future, trying to make "sense" out of what was happening - by separating out the actual true experience from the story, I could more easily stay out of mind-identification with the thinking.

I don't know if that's a typical part of the process, but I have found my defenses (reactivity) dissipates quickly when I can see it as such. I am able to sit with experience / feeling, and it seems I'm learning to trust that I'll know how to sort things out from a deeper place without needing to think/fix so much. Would be interested in your feedback on that.

Thank you again. This is incredibly helpful to have regular pointers and feedback.

[Bluejay]

Thank you again. This is incredibly helpful to have regular pointers and feedback.

Glad you're enjoying them!

It's great to see you applying them in your life 👍

I was able to use your question of "What is known for sure?" last night in a distressful moment with my husband. It was very helpful because I could easily see what was real in my experience (what I could truly know) and that helped me more clearly see and separate actual experience from thoughts. While before I could see the "mental gymnastics" I was doing - about the past, the future, trying to make "sense" out of what was happening - by separating out the actual true experience from the story, I could more easily stay out of mind-identification with the thinking.

Wonderful use of that question :-)

I don't know if that's a typical part of the process, but I have found my defenses (reactivity) dissipates quickly when I can see it as such. I am able to sit with experience / feeling, and it seems I'm learning to trust that I'll know how to sort things out from a deeper place without needing to think/fix so much. Would be interested in your feedback on that.

This all sounds great to me. It sounds like you're naturally finding your way.

Reactivity is really a movement away from feeling, so all I would add is to become curious about what you're avoiding when a reaction occurs. You don't have to fix anything at this point, but just become curious.

Okay, now for an interesting pointer:

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

[BlueRacoon]

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

I was able to do this pretty easily within the context of the exercise.

Where are they coming from and going to?

No idea. They truly do just show up randomly and change topics randomly. I even tried to force a stream of thought and once I “said” the first sentence in my mind, the process just halted. I couldn't make myself think a stream of thought. That was interesting.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Not a thing. I’ve been chewing on this since listening to Ilona’s podcast and it’s become much clearer that thoughts just come of their own accord - sometimes coherent, sometimes not. Sometimes they seem orderly, sometimes not. But I have a much clearer sense that I don’t “make them come.”

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

I tried and it didn’t work! :-)

Can you predict the next thought?

No. Sometimes they make sense together, but I don’t really know what’s coming until it’s already there.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Ah, if only!

Do you control where attention goes?

I am so much clearer that like seeing and hearing, thinking also goes to whatever calls it.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?[/quote]

No. I do have the sense right now, like with my reactivity last night, that having the awareness of “What I can know” and what is story makes the painful/negative/fearful thoughts less potent and powerful and they drop off, but that doesn’t seem as much like a “choice” as opposed to a quality of my consciousness (immersed in the I/story or with some perspective and compassion).

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Not truly. I can fool myself a bit - “Think of colors! Blue. Red. Green!” But then where did “Think of colors!” come from?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

That one is so clearly a no. Almost funny. Because to prevent a thought from appearing, you’d have to think it. And there it is!

Thanks for the exercise - each time I look it's a little clearer that everything is just running on its own. How did I ever think there was an I there? It's interesting to see how thoughts layer in the assumption of an "I" but close observation makes it clear that things just happen - a little like a self-driving car would that does everything to get you from A to B. Even the destination of the car just happens (which I wasn't totally clear about - maybe until now). Where I'm going is just a product of all the thinking that led to the "choice" of where to go. Everything is based on everything else.

[Bluejay]

Not truly. I can fool myself a bit - “Think of colors! Blue. Red. Green!” But then where did “Think of colors!” come from?

Exactly.

I am so much clearer that like seeing and hearing, thinking also goes to whatever calls it.

This answer on attention wasn't clear to me. Or maybe it's too early in the morning here.

Do you control attention as in being aware of your foot, then seeing, then hearing, and so on?

Thanks for the exercise - each time I look it's a little clearer that everything is just running on its own. How did I ever think there was an I there? It's interesting to see how thoughts layer in the assumption of an "I" but close observation makes it clear that things just happen - a little like a self-driving car would that does everything to get you from A to B. Even the destination of the car just happens (which I wasn't totally clear about - maybe until now). Where I'm going is just a product of all the thinking that led to the "choice" of where to go. Everything is based on everything else.

Causes and conditions as they say in Buddhism (dependent origination).

So it's not just all the thinking that led to choice, but your personality, mood, what you ate, and circumstances.

And for all of those to be, your parents need to be, and for your parents to be, their parents, and their parents, and their parents need to be. And for all those to be, a butterfly in Australia needs to be. And for that, the Universe. :-)

Let's look at choice now:

The aim of this pointer is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Enjoy! :)

[BlueRacoon]

Do you control where attention goes?
I am so much clearer that like seeing and hearing, thinking also goes to whatever calls it

.

I wasn’t clear here. What I meant was that my thinking attention seems to go where it wants to. I noticed on the previous day (but maybe didn’t include it) that while driving I didn’t choose where my sight went. A woman in bright blue shorts caught my attention. Then a moving car. Then a bird. My eyes went to objects that called them rather than my choosing between possible objects of attention. It just all happened. Before I would have thought I was making those choices. So the same seems true with thoughts.

It’s nearly midnight here. So the drinking exercise will be something fun for the morning - coffee or tea? :-)

Have a great day!

[Bluejay]

I wasn’t clear here. What I meant was that my thinking attention seems to go where it wants to. I noticed on the previous day (but maybe didn’t include it) that while driving I didn’t choose where my sight went. A woman in bright blue shorts caught my attention. Then a moving car. Then a bird. My eyes went to objects that called them rather than my choosing between possible objects of attention. It just all happened. Before I would have thought I was making those choices. So the same seems true with thoughts.

Alright!

What about when you close your eyes, can you control attention then?

It’s nearly midnight here. So the drinking exercise will be something fun for the morning - coffee or tea? :-)

I just woke up an hour or so ago!

[BlueRacoon]

Hi Henri,

Good morning to you!

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

I didn't choose my awareness of the qualities or preferences. I actually found it very hard to pick the pairing and played with it all day long, because the moment I picked the pairing, I knew my choice without any actual choosing. It was always clear what I would truly want. If I didn't choose that, it would have been because I was just messing with the process. And then, the decision to mess with the process wasn't mine either. And the list of pro's and con's didn't really change anything - The qualities were already there - maybe already computed - and the choice was made.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

The preferences/thoughts about the drink did take the back seat and no I didn't choose it. It was automatic.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

No. The choice was just there.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

No. It was obviously done outside of my awareness.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

I can see how I used to think that, but at this point, it's pretty clear that if it's "me" doing it, it's my unconscious or my body-brain doing it (and not a separate I).

I actually had a laugh when I sipped what I sipped, because it seemed funny that there has been an idea of a choice before.

I have found myself being more relaxed with clients, trusting that what is needed to intervene with my clients will just come - and it seems that it does indeed work that way. I can relax and wait more than I have before. My work seems a level deeper.

I'm in a class tomorrow and then going to my parents for the evening to help out my parents (my Dad is on hospice), so I may not be able to write you tomorrow. But depending on what it is, I'll do my best!

[Bluejay]

I have found myself being more relaxed with clients, trusting that what is needed to intervene with my clients will just come - and it seems that it does indeed work that way. I can relax and wait more than I have before. My work seems a level deeper.

That's wonderful. Yes, there's much more relaxation when the overlay of the decider is not so heavy.

I'm in a class tomorrow and then going to my parents for the evening to help out my parents (my Dad is on hospice), so I may not be able to write you tomorrow. But depending on what it is, I'll do my best!

No problem!

I have a fun pointer for you that will allow you to experiment without needing to do anything specific. If you can't answer today/tomorrow, keep doing the pointer and answer when you can.

Body Exercise - Inner GPS

Your body naturally navigates life, and gives you data on what it resonates with and what it doesn’t.

For example, have you ever had a ‘gut feeling’ that you shouldn’t do something, and you did it anyway?

Or maybe you felt like doing something that made no logical sense, but it led to exactly what you needed at that time in your life?

It may not make sense logically, but the body knows more than we are aware of.

These yes/no signals often come as expansion/contraction, light/heavy, open/closed, but they may be different for you.

They can happen spontaneously or need time to become clear (a sign that you need time is that you think you need to be faster).

What I’d like you to do for next day or two is this:

1. Tell your mind that you will conduct an experiment for 24 hours, and that things will return to normal after that if appropriate (this is to get some space and focus on the body)

2. As often as you can, pay attention to what your body feels drawn to do. If it isn’t convenient to do this for all decisions, then do it for small ones, or whenever you can.

(If you have a hard time connecting to your body, just do your best. Look at this as an experiment and play with it.)

3. Pay attention to how your inner GPS communicates with you. Where is it in your body? What does it feel like? Is it instant or does it require time? (focus on direct experience)

4. Also notice how thoughts about self affect the body. What do you find?

If you experience thoughts such as:

- “This doesn’t work”
- “Why are you doing this?”
- “This is silly”
- “This is unsafe”

Tell your mind that you’re just doing it for 24 hours to see what it’s like.

What happened? Report back what you discover.

Let me know if you have any questions :)

[BlueRacoon]

Wonderful exercise Henri!

Interestingly enough, connecting with the body and having the clients do the same is a big part of what I'm doing more of in my practice. I know that is where my deeper answers come from.

And interesting story - decades ago I was an engineer/manager in high tech. One night, totally out of the blue, I just knew that it was time to go to a local university and get my MA in Counseling Psychology. It felt like a bolt of lighting. But I just knew, and I never doubted that knowing, it was so strong.

I'm very familiar with this, but will enjoy practicing and strengthening this focus of looking to the body for answers.

I'll see what happens during the class!

Best to you and sweet dreams (when it's time to go to bed)!

[Bluejay]

And interesting story - decades ago I was an engineer/manager in high tech. One night, totally out of the blue, I just knew that it was time to go to a local university and get my MA in Counseling Psychology. It felt like a bolt of lighting. But I just knew, and I never doubted that knowing, it was so strong.

That's great! It tends to be like that :)

I'm very familiar with this, but will enjoy practicing and strengthening this focus of looking to the body for answers.

You can increase focus on how the body responds to "I/self" thoughts. That might keep it fresher.

[BlueRacoon]

Hi Henri!

I only have a couple of minutes to reply but I wanted to say that what I am aware of is that my body is smarter than my mind (with respect to what I want or what is good for me) and that it much prefers statements without the I (e.g. "showering" versus "I am showering"). As before, the I am is cumbersome and feels heavier and unnecessary. It just is more relaxing to drop the "I".

I'll keep at it today. :-)

[Bluejay]

Nice! Looking forward to more :)

[BlueRacoon]

3. Pay attention to how your inner GPS communicates with you. Where is it in your body? What does it feel like? Is it instant or does it require time? (focus on direct experience)

Hey there Henri! I am finally done with my class and family obligations. I should be able to be regular with my communication again.

Being in the class was interesting. It was online and for 3 days. I was able to notice how some things really drew my attention, and others didn’t. Previously I would have had some distress about the fact that I wasn’t paying attention at times, but this time I was able to trust the wisdom of my organism and I figured I would pay attention to what I needed to, and that I could let go of the rest. At any rate, I was aware that whether or not I paid attention wasn’t “my” choice.

On the question you asked above, I’m aware I tend to look to my upper torso for “heart” questions/answers and my gut/whole torso for others. I look to my whole body for food answers with a sense of “how is this food going to make me feel?”

I have a plan to see a friend today for yoga and then brunch and I find my body surprisingly neutral about it. It will be interesting to see what the actual experience is like. I really enjoy the friend and our conversation so I thought I would be excited.

My husband and I are going through a hard time and I am working to really be aware of my body when I’m upset - particularly finding the vulnerability under my anger. It’s been helpful to be a compassionate witness to my pain, particularly when it’s not a safe time yet to share that with him.

I’m looking forward to attending to my body today to see what it has to say.

If you see this before bed, sweet dreams!