Awakening

[jordan00]

Here without thought, would just be "here"

the thoughts about "here" wouldn't change the contents of what is in existence.

[jordan00]

If that makes sense, I have to get ready for work, I'll get back to you as soon as I can

[Bluejay]

Makes sense!

[jordan00]

Hey!

Okay so I just did the exercise-

What about the content of thoughts, what do they describe?

The content of thoughts describe our distorted interpretation of the experience. They are not the experience but work in a way to connect the experience and help humans understand their surroundings.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought about ‘apple’?

I am trying to wrap my head around this question because I feel it can be interpreted in two different ways. I'll go with my most simple answer. Yes there is an apple here, it is an actual experience.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

This is an interesting question. Because our minds are what connect the words to the experience. My answer is no. All we see is red, feel's hard, taste crunchy, and smells sweet. The apple is nothing when it comes to the actual experience it is just our brain trying to make sense of it.

I don't know if these last two answers contradicted themself, but I will just submit it like this. I have to be willing to make mistakes and be wrong to learn and grow.

[Bluejay]

I am trying to wrap my head around this question because I feel it can be interpreted in two different ways. I'll go with my most simple answer. Yes there is an apple here, it is an actual experience.

Interpretation is going to thinking for the answer.

In direct experience, when looking at 'apple', what is seen?

This is an interesting question. Because our minds are what connect the words to the experience. My answer is no. All we see is red, feel's hard, taste crunchy, and smells sweet. The apple is nothing when it comes to the actual experience it is just our brain trying to make sense of it.

I read this answer after the one above. You answered my above question with this answer, but I'll leave it up there.

Is the color red direct experience or interpretation/knowledge/thought?

I don't know if these last two answers contradicted themself, but I will just submit it like this. I have to be willing to make mistakes and be wrong to learn and grow.

Yes, good. Don't worry about mistakes. Write without worry :)

[jordan00]

In direct experience, when looking at 'apple', what is seen?

What is seen, is red. So you said interpretation is going to thinking for the answer, so it wouldn't even be considered an "apple" if it wasn't for the thought that interprets it as an apple.

Is the color red direct experience or interpretation/knowledge/thought?

The color red is a direct experience. It is not an interpretation.

[Bluejay]

The color red is a direct experience. It is not an interpretation.

There is color yes, but the label red is something we've learned, is it not?

I think you already mean this, but just making sure.

[jordan00]

well yes, i changed my answer to that it was a direct experience. Something was telling me that it was an interpretation, but I tried to think in a more simpler way. But yes "red" is a label for an experience that is there, which is distinguishing color perception.

[Bluejay]

Exactly. Most of this is just checking to see if you see the difference between thinking and direct experience.

Let's now look at thoughts:

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

[jordan00]

Hey I'm so sorry for responding late, I've been really busy the past couple days. Would it be okay if I sent that to you tomorrow?

[Bluejay]

Sure!

[jordan00]

Hey! I apologize for taking long again to respond, I'm currently taking 15 credits, and working a lot. I will submit that practice in a couple hours, and will try to start responding faster. Thank you for your patience.

[jordan00]

Hey! I hope your doing well.

Where are they coming from and going to?

I believe they are coming from the fear of losing oneself, the ego and the false sense of self uses the thoughts as a defense mechanism.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, they would come and go

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

I don't believe so, I think the thought that appeared was the only thought that was capable of appearing at that moment

Can you predict the next thought?

I believe you could try to predict the next thought but still thoughts are thoughts and the act of trying to predict a thought is a thought

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

No, thoughts are thoughts, whether pleasant or unpleasant they are still content of the conscious experience.

Do you control where attention goes?

Do you mean my controlling my attention to the thoughts? I guess I could try to pay more attention to one thought but is that not the act of thinking about a thought. these thoughts are a false sense of reality. Reality is experience, the self is the gap between true experience and self identified experience.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No thoughts are thoughts, the act of choosing to not have will result in more of these unpleasant thoughts.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No, thoughts are an aspect of perceived conscious from the view of the self. Thoughts are thoughts, and I don't believe there is such thing as picking a thought.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, it is not possible. While there are ways like meditation which can help come back to the senses and experience, it is not possible to block a thought, awareness is a different story.

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

there is no logical order, no sequence, It is just another thought that says "these thoughts are in sequence". Thoughts are thoughts, I believe it's as simple as that.

[Bluejay]

I believe they are coming from the fear of losing oneself, the ego and the false sense of self uses the thoughts as a defense mechanism.

Do you see this happening when you look?

Remember, we are only looking what is there. The explanations may of course be correct, but that isn't the point.

I believe you could try to predict the next thought but still thoughts are thoughts and the act of trying to predict a thought is a thought

Try to predict a thought. Let's not gloss over anything. :)

Do you mean my controlling my attention to the thoughts? I guess I could try to pay more attention to one thought but is that not the act of thinking about a thought. these thoughts are a false sense of reality. Reality is experience, the self is the gap between true experience and self identified experience.

I mean can you control attention at all. When you close your eyes, are you in control of where your attention goes?

Thoughts are thoughts, and I don't believe there is such thing as picking a thought.

We are not here to believe anything, just to look and see what is there.

Try to pick and choose a thought, let me know what the process is like, and if it is possible.

Don't go into what you know or believe or want to be true.

[jordan00]

Do you see this happening when you look?

Yes

Try to predict a thought. Let's not gloss over anything

When I try, my thoughts go to something else

I mean can you control attention at all. When you close your eyes, are you in control of where your attention goes?

Depends what your attention is on, no you can't control your thoughts but you can pay more attention to your senses

We are not here to believe anything, just to look and see what is there.

I understand, I'll try to stop saying "I believe"

Try to pick and choose a thought, let me know what the process is like, and if it is possible.

There is no way to pick a thought because they aren't real