On Revealing the True Nature That Has Been There All Along

[warissem]

Good morning

Waiting for your insights

Have a happy day

[freya]

Hi Warissem,

Here are my observations:

Identifying things as smells, shapes and colours and sensations made them strip out of their labels, like a shoe would be a shape and a color. The body sensations were very interesting to label. A headache was a “sensation” but when looked with eyes closed, it was just a sensation+ a label “headache”. So do I know if this sensation is a headache or I’m just imagining that this sensation is a “headache”?

The more I think about this, the more I get confused, especially regarding the bodily sensations and thoughts: e.g, “emotion” labels

[warissem]

Good evening

Good observations. Yes, labeling is happening to whatever that is. During our dialog we focus on direct experience which is : seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, touching or sensations. Thoughts and concepts are used to communicate.

We are used to say "I see", "I hear" , is there a you, a separate self which is seeing? Look at direct experience before giving the answer.

Best for you

[freya]

Hi Warissem,

We are used to say "I see", "I hear" , is there a you, a separate self which is seeing? Look at direct experience before giving the answer.

No. Seeing and hearing happens all by itself. There is only the experience of seeing and hearing.

[warissem]

Hi Jasmine

I invite you to investigate thoughts. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Answer to each question separately when it is SEEN that the answer is true.

Best for you

[freya]

Answer to each question separately when it is SEEN that the answer is true.

Best for you

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[freya]

Hi warissem,

Answer to each question separately when it is SEEN that the answer is true.

Sorry for the last response, it was sent by accident. These are really good questions, it might take more than one sit to see all. I’m going to report what is seen tomorrow and the rest of them when they are seen.

Jasmine

[warissem]

Good morning

No worry about accidental post, it happens. Take your time to look at the questions.

Waiting for your insights.

[freya]

Hi Warissem,

I had been overwhelmed with moving to a new city and finding an apartment to live. I finally had some time to write me reflections.

Where are they coming from and going to?

They arise from nowhere and go into nowhere. One comes and goes, and then the other comes, sometimes two of them come and go at the same time.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No. I don’t do anything. They just arise.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

I am not so sure about this one. It seemed as if the thoughts stopped when I wanted them to stop, so I guess that was a direct experience, right?

Can you predict your next thought?

No, not exactly. I know I wasn’t supposed to look at the content of the thoughts, but it seemed as is I could predict that the next thought was going to be about. But again, the act of predicting was just a thought itself also.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

I have these answers for now. I am still very much busy trying to find a place to live but I will try to keep updating the answers I have whenever I have time. Just did not want to forget what I saw so far.

Bests
Jasmine


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[warissem]

Good morning

I wish you happy days in the new house.

I am not so sure about this one. It seemed as if the thoughts stopped when I wanted them to stop, so I guess that was a direct experience, right?

Look again at thoughts : take the thought "the white elephant" can you stop it from arising? This is valid to any thought.

No, not exactly. I know I wasn’t supposed to look at the content of the thoughts, but it seemed as is I could predict that the next thought was going to be about. But again, the act of predicting was just a thought itself also.

When a thought is noticed, it is already here. Even "chosing a topic" is a thought which is already here.

I have these answers for now. I am still very much busy trying to find a place to live but I will try to keep updating the answers I have whenever I have time. Just did not want to forget what I saw so far.

Waiting for the answers.

Is there a thinker?
Is there someone behind "I" ?
Are thoughts addressed to you, a separate self?

Best for you

[freya]

Hi Warissem, here are the experiences:

Is there a thinker?

There is “thinking”, But there is also a “thinker”. The thinker is a thought also, just like every other thought. The only difference is that the thought of a thinker is really frequent and always so prominent.

Is there someone behind "I" ?

Not really. “I” is kind of bunch of thoughts, sensations and beliefs.

Are thoughts addressed to you, a separate self?

Actually… not really. A separate self is also a thought, or a belief so to say… a thought that is so prominent and repetitive.

So these are the answers. Also, “two thoughts are related” is just another thought that becomes a belief (a strong one). There is no way of knowing what thought will arise next, because predicting is also just a thought. There is no way of controlling the bad or good thoughts that arise, because they just are there and then they are gone.


Best wishes to you. Looking forward to your responses, these questions were really fun to observe.

Jasmine

[warissem]

Hi Jasmine

Good observations. Here is a practice to deepen the seeing.

1. Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

2. Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought).

3. Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

4. For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.
Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.
And notice that you're not making them happen.
You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.
And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.
You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

5. The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

Best for you

[freya]

Hi Warissem,

Will reply to all of them one by one at a time.Starting with the first question now.


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[warissem]

Good morning

Take time for it

[freya]

Hi Warissem,

These questions were hard to see. Here is what arose:

Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

No, the "self" is only found in the context of thought. There are a bunch of thoughts such as "I am this, I am that", in which the idea of a self is very pungent. And there are also sensations, such as feeling cold, hot, etc. that this idea of self is attached to (via another thought)

Here is a diagram that explains what arises:

A sensation ----> A thought ----> another thought saying the sensation and the thought is linked

Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything? (Thought is so very overrated - by thought).

The thought cannot experience thought- thought cannot experience anything.

Does thought make any contact with other kinds of sense experience, such as sounds or sensations – or are they totally separate from each other?

This is the hardest of them all to see. Yes- the thoughts and sensations do not make any contact, and yes, the only thing that links them is another thought saying these two are linked. But then, for example, my leg is itchy, and I think about itching it. In this sense, it is so hard to separate them from each other. both the sensation and the thought have the same content- only one is the thought of a leg and the other is an actual leg.

For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour.
Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them.
And notice that you're not making them happen.
You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.
And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience.
You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

Yes, that is true. There is no effort required for anything that is happening. Everything happens all by itself. The thoughts, the actions that I take all happen by themselves.

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

This was the other hard question to see, and it gave a lot of confusion. No, the story of me is a bunch of thoughts- but that is only because it is impossible to remember the whole history of "me". If it was possible, there would be one story that is continuous.

Looking forward to your response

Jasmine