Eager to Begin!

[Elad]

"I feel the need to simplify my looking. To be aware of emotions, sensations, thoughts and self arising within a social situation"

Ok. Emotions, sensations and thoughts arise, yes. What does it mean "self arise"? Can you see this is just a thought?

Kindly,
Elad

[mo23]

Hi Elad,
I remember now the advice to save my replies periodically before sending! I spent quite a bit of time replying to you this morning, giving much thought to what I wanted to say, then got distracted and when I returned to look it was all gone!
I will leave it for now as I have to go out. I am very much enjoying our daily interactions, and will get back to you later today.
Warmly,
Maureen

[mo23]

Hi Elad!
What a fruitful day of inquiry! It started off with drama, a situation where an individual definitely seemed to be at fault. But then Ilona's writing came to mind. If nothing is separate from anything else, if everything is dependent upon everything else as one movement then everyone involved has participated in the creation of this situation. I liked the way that felt. And it was nice to open up to a new possibility. Letting go of the blame story, my mood lifted considerably and stayed for the rest of the day.
I played with your seeing exercise over the last few days. At first what I noticed was that my mind got in the act in both cases. Either because it was being asked to label or because it was checking in to see if I was "doing" the simple seeing exercise "properly"!
I have noticed this in meditation or other presence exercises: if any effort is involved the results are usually not the one desired!
But I know the experience to which you were pointing (at least I think I do!). There is a trail near my home where I enjoy spending time. When I start out my thoughts are all over the place and I feel very separate from the environment. I have found a few ways to settle myself into a feeling of oneness with everything. And in that space there is no separation. I am a part of the trees, the spaces between the trees; all that I can see and maybe a little more. It is a delicious and delightful feeling.
Warmly,
Maureen

[Elad]

Lovely. Now dig in to see there is never a separate self or doer. You don't choose when you do effort or not. You don't choose what you like or not, how you do what I suggest or not, what feels effortful and what feels flowy. You can seemingly choose, but look deeper to see it's all natural patterns, natural law unfolding. This is as true for states of contraction and separation as for states of felt flow and oneness.

How do you react to this? Is there a willingness to deeply engage what is written above? Is there an unwillingness and ideas about what is more right for you? Tell me what happens without censoring anything.

[mo23]

I am so curious, intrigued and excited by this. Definitely I am willing to deeply engage! I am so happy to have you as my guide to shine a light on the truth of how things are.
Can you say more about the natural laws and patterns that are behind the unfolding? I will look deeper into this today and write again this afternoon.
Thanks, Elad. I do appreciate your willingness to guide me through this most fascinating landscape!

[Elad]

Okay Maureen, thank you for letting me know. When I use the word natural laws here it refers to the direct experience that everything unfolds naturally by itself not controlled by a separate self, even the unfolding of misunderstandings and suffering and belief in separate self. It's "governed by the whole".

*The main point for you to dig into now to see this - and you will then say it with your words - is whatever you still believe or experience as a separate self or as a choice that you control*

Dig into it, question it, look deeply what is really there, until you see that "resistance is futile" 😛, ego is futile. And even trying to get rid of ego by will is futile. And trying to believe and follow this without direct experience is futile too.

Tell me how you react to this and what your exploration shows you 🙏

[mo23]

Thanks for the clear direction on where to dig! I am looking forward to taking this as deeply as I can go. But for now just a few thoughts.
On a quick glance my sense of self can be seen to rest on ephemeral things like opinions, habits of thought, etc. Nothing solid and lasting. The idea of a separate self falls away with this examination. There just is no solid entity called self that is separate from other solid entities called self. (At least as far as I have so far inquired to date.)
But I have always felt myself to be separate from others, feeling alone in my perceptions that I couldn't articulate. Or find others interested to explore with me.
Is there something for me to dig into here? Who is the me who felt separate for example?

On the question of choice:
When you say what do I experience as a choice I can control do you mean a choice I can control the outcome of? Or are you saying that my impulse to choose A versus B is not really coming from my free will? It's coming from past patterns and circumstances perhaps. Still, when I choose A is it an inevitable choice? Might I have chosen B given everything that came before and my intentions of the moment?

I'm happy to be exploring this with you!
Warmly,
Maureen

[Elad]

Good Maureen!

1) choice happens. What you want to pay close attention to and notice is it happens by itself. Actions either happen with no clear choice or choice just happens. We can make stories about the causes and conditions but thats speculative and not the propose of our work here. Dig in to see spontaneous self emergence of actions and choice.

2) Emotional/relational experience of closeness and distance, understanding together and not understanding together, and feelings around it, including pain, are real and helpful, just like feeling warm and cold and the temperature range where the body is comfortable. Maybe many people were not attuned to and interested in your subtle interests. That would seem probable. What is important for the purposes of our exploration is to see that all this happens spontaneously and naturally without a separate self.

Dig into these points and whatever you still believe.or feel could be a separate self and tell me what you see and how you react.

With warmth
Elad

[mo23]

Hello Elad!
I have come up against something that feels like a separate self. It was triggered by a situation where person A had not yet expressed thanks to person B for a gift received. None of my business, really, except for my concern for the feelings of person B. I feel it in my solar plexus, a tight feeling. And in my throat, a constriction. Previously when looking for a self I have not found one, it simply dissolved with the lightest of glances, as if I was just made of air.
Now I feel solid and separate. Mother bear wanting to protect her cub! I feel stuck in this constricted feeling. How can I inquire to break this uncomfortable spell?
Warmly,
Maureen

[mo23]

Actually, I don't think this is an experience of a separate self! The feeling in my body which I interpreted as a feeling of solidity and separateness was purely the result of my thoughts. Wow, that is cool to see! I am released from the spell!! (At least for now!)

[Elad]

You are putting me out of work 💗😜

So, is it crystal clear there is no separate and enduring self, no controller, no chooser?

Any doubts, any questions that need looking into?

[mo23]

Hello, Elad!
I would like to further explore my perception of choice. I am wanting to directly experience the natural unfolding of everything. Perhaps I am already experiencing this in all things but I'm unaware? (I suspect you would agree with that! That natural unfolding is all that there is, that there is no other way of experience. I like the idea of that, it feels very liberating to not feel it is up to me to "get it right".)

Taking meditation as an example. My practice is to return my attention to the breath. This is my intention. Sometimes there is an ease with this where my attention simply returns to the breath. Other times it feels more laboured. I agree that I cannot choose, or control the way it will be.
But there is a feeling that I should be an active participant when necessary. Looking at my intention to maintain/return my attention to the breath it feels there is a doer in there.
I feel that if I "let it unfold as it will" then my attention will be all over the place and the purpose of meditation (to cultivate concentration) will not be met.
I have been mulling over this on and off all day. Writing, and then erasing what I have written. I think I understand the concept: that it is only belief, thoughts and expectations that create the illusion of control. I am willing for that to be the case.
I feel like I'm having a conversation with you in my mind! At this point you say: look deeply. Can you find a solid self who is running the show? And I admit that I really cannot. Although it feels as if it is my commitment and intention that guides, to some degree, the unfolding I acknowledge that that could purely be the story I have come to believe.
I will stop my ramblings here. This is a fun and intriguing exploration!
Over to you, Elad!
Warmly,
Maureen

[Elad]

Hi Maureen, lovely, things are moving and clarity increasing. Some comments and pointers:

"Am I all ready experiencing natural unfolding?"

All there is is natural unfolding. It seems though that part of you still believes in the story of separate Maureen who might be experiencing it or not. So this calls for more looking.

"The intention to return/maintain attention feels like a doer"

The question is not if it feels so. The feeling of more or less doership is part of normal human functioning. Would you want it to go away?

The point is to look if in actual moments of intention emerging or intention sustaining or intention disapearing you can find a separate self doing it?

Oscillation between more active and concentrative (yang) versus passive and receptive (yin) modes are a natural part of the dance and lovemaking of the whole (warning: metaphoric language 🙃). We tend to have a harder time seeing that there is no self in the "yang" quality (masculine is ego 😛). Joke aside, look deeply:

Is there in fact a separate self or doer or controller on the yang emergences (intention, concentration, focus, choice, effort, etc) or do they in fact emerge, unfold and dissolve naturally and spontaneously, under the appropriate conditions?

With warmth,
Elad

[mo23]

Hi Elad,
Your comments are so helpful in directing my attention! They allow me to experience a moment in a very different way. For example
"The point is to look if in actual moments of intention emerging or intention sustaining or intention disappearing you can find a separate self doing it?"
I cannot. In fact when I direct my attention in that way I instead experience a natural flow. Shifting experience without anyone in charge.

"Is there in fact a separate self or doer or controller on the yang emergences (intention, concentration, focus, choice, effort, etc) or do they in fact emerge, unfold and dissolve naturally and spontaneously, under the appropriate conditions?"

I suspect I will easily agree with your question once I look deeply into more of those experiences. I love this phrase: " emerge, unfold and dissolve naturally and spontaneously". There is something about it that feels so right and comfortable. Like it is expressing a familiar experience that I have never before noticed in that way.
I find this work so satisfying. I feel that I am coming home to myself. Myself being my true nature.
I have come across 2 references that Ilona makes to a sense of being, the basic "I am" awareness. I suspect this is what I experience as a tingly sensation just below the lowest point of my sternum. When I drop my attention there I feel a sense of expansion, of calm and wellbeing. It always feels the same, very comforting. Is there anything you would like to say about that? I know my work now is to uncover the truth of the separate self. I am clear that this experience is not the separate self. It feels steady and stable in a way that I am discovering the "self" is not.
Thanks!
Maureen

[mo23]

Hi Elad,
More observations:
When I am aware of my current internal experience in terms of thoughts, sensations etc I can notice the automatic shift into a different experience. For example I noticed that my thoughts were very active. And in noticing this my attention shifted to a bodily sensation which brought me into a more relaxed state. Automatic, without controller. I am eager to observe this in my morning's meditation!
I am curious to understand the quality of awareness. Who is aware? Is awareness an attribute of the unimpeded movement of Life through me?
Warmly,
Maureen