Dear Elad -
I’m writing to you at the end of quite a long and (I must say) wonderful day. Lots of unexpected developments, even as a center of the day’s activity was this new workplace where I have begun my first in-office job in over three years, and everything has been quite gentle, new, manageable, friendly – and that’s just the central, already-known activity I had in broad terms been anticipating.
This evening, after quite a good day at this new office, instead of heading home, I hopped on a Citi Bike and rode, at my wife’s request, to the home of my younger daughter’s new friend and classmate at the new school where she will begin middle school next Thursday. I had thoroughly lovely conversations with first my daughter and her friend about how their orientation day at the new school had gone, and then with my daughter’s friend’s mama, who arrived a few minutes after I did. My daughter and I ended up staying at her new friend’s house quite a bit longer than I had anticipated, both of us enjoying the visit and not hurrying to leave.
We were there so much longer than anticipated, though, that as we were getting ready to go, I suddenly realized that we had stayed nearly until the beginning of an important appointment of mine this evening, a singing audition (to be held via Zoom) for a choral group here in New York City. I had completely forgotten about the audition until maybe six minutes before the time when I was scheduled to sing! I confessed my quandary to the nice lady and the girls, and they quickly showed me into my daughter’s new friend’s room, where I was able to prepare for a minute or two and then successfully sing the audition! it went delightfully, to my laughing amazement.
I’m sharing all these little details here with you to give you some idea of my experience of how this day unfurled. After what has not been the very easiest chapter my wife and I have ever had – although in many ways it has been lucky and wonderful, and has certainly been a very fortunate position to be in — today was just…easy. I don’t know if I let the seen be just the seen, and the heard be just the heard… it was very simple, though, for sure. I wasn’t even really “working” on anything, as a spiritual matter, as any kind of attempt at anything very much other than being happily alive on this day of life. But there was so much that was just simple and so enjoyable about so many different pieces of this day, all day long, from the very beginning. It was a great blessing, living this life today.… And I come to the end of this day feeling lucky and pleased and quite blessed by how things have gone,
It’s a little difficult for me to look back at how this day happened and feel like I can point to any of it as evidence of having tried to take your advice. I wasn’t even remembering your suggestion. But I did, without trying, stop and notice quite a large number of tremendously relishable moments.
And now it’s late, and I’m going to head to bed. Did I take your advice? Did I not? Was it just a simple, lovely day? It seemed like it. What am I missing here? Am I missing anything?
I hope your day treated you very well too, Elad. I look forward to hearing from you and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Best wishes till soon from
Josh(ua)
Hello!-JoshO
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Joshua,
This is very lovely! It's happening. You know "Elad and what he says" are just pointers supporting what is all ready there. This process exactly does not take you out of life, but rather sees clearly the habitual patterns that distort seeing what is, it "takes you into life", all though you were never out of it, there was never a real separate you/doer. So keep taking many short moments relaxing as what is. In fact no one can do this, so when it doesn't feel willed and planned and rationally reflected it is no problem. I think you intuited this.
I look forward to hear from you again!
Elad
This is very lovely! It's happening. You know "Elad and what he says" are just pointers supporting what is all ready there. This process exactly does not take you out of life, but rather sees clearly the habitual patterns that distort seeing what is, it "takes you into life", all though you were never out of it, there was never a real separate you/doer. So keep taking many short moments relaxing as what is. In fact no one can do this, so when it doesn't feel willed and planned and rationally reflected it is no problem. I think you intuited this.
I look forward to hear from you again!
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Also, once in a while, as you let the seen be the seen and thought be thought and etc. look into:
*What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
Also, do this exercise to deepen the seeing. Be playful with it, attentive and playful :)
Exercise: Is there a controller?
Think of a number between 1 and 53. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared? Did you decide the moment of choice? Do it several times.
Now do a whole sequence, numbers and words, something like this:
14, 34, 2, 15, bum, funny, 3, happy, sad, love, lucy, 2, 3, 17
Be still and attentive between a new number/word appearing. Is there a controller or chooser that makes it appear? There might be the experience of themes in the words, or numbers, etc. Also if that happens, is there a separate self/doer/chooser that made exactly this theme appear now?
Write to me about what you see.
*What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
Also, do this exercise to deepen the seeing. Be playful with it, attentive and playful :)
Exercise: Is there a controller?
Think of a number between 1 and 53. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared? Did you decide the moment of choice? Do it several times.
Now do a whole sequence, numbers and words, something like this:
14, 34, 2, 15, bum, funny, 3, happy, sad, love, lucy, 2, 3, 17
Be still and attentive between a new number/word appearing. Is there a controller or chooser that makes it appear? There might be the experience of themes in the words, or numbers, etc. Also if that happens, is there a separate self/doer/chooser that made exactly this theme appear now?
Write to me about what you see.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
Thank you for your note of yesterday – or really rather of earlier today. I read through the letter that I wrote to you yesterday again just now, and then yours again just now. A whole quite long day has taken place in between, very differently flavored from how yesterday’s tasted, I have to confess I haven’t done my homework yet – the homework that you gave me. I’ve tried to do little bit of it, but I haven’t taken the time yet to sit down and properly do it.
I’m a little hesitant to proceed as I feel drawn to doing here… today was significantly “harder” than yesterday, and I confess I prefer the feelings of ease, lightness, effortlessness, and that Life is somehow working “as I would like it to.” At this point, I certainly do have preferences! There is some part of me that wants to whine, to complain, to object to how this day felt. Very different from yesterday. I didn’t get enough sleep last night, and that was the very beginning of an entirely different experience, and yes it turns out I have preferences. I preferred the feeling of Life as I experienced it yesterday… and yet right now, I am aware that yesterday does not exist as anything other than a thought.
Whew.
Thank you again for your patience with me here Elad. Let me see if I can do some of what you’ve called on me to do… and see how that goes.
“Also, once in a while, as you let the seen be the seen and thought be thought and etc. look into: What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
At the moment, I am not sure. I did feel like the doer of what “Joshua” was supposed to be doing today at that new job. I strongly suspect that there is no doer, but as I passed through this day (not very consciously, I fear), it felt very “normal,” very similar to how I am accustomed to living a whole lot of this life on earth. And quite a bit of today was experienced with unhappiness, frustration, boredom.
Please forgive me, Elad, but it has grown so late and I am so tired that I am actually falling asleep as I write to you. I will pick this up again tomorrow and meanwhile ask and hope for your understanding here. I very much appreciate your bringing your energy, and care, and presence in my daily life–just now, and I am eager to focus on the questions you suggest and to do the work that will catalyze the process, that is the process.
I will do all of what you suggest tomorrow and thank you for bearing with me here.
More guidance, please, as and when you are inspired to share it, will be very much appreciated. I look forward to more contact soon.
Very best wishes from
Josh
Thank you for your note of yesterday – or really rather of earlier today. I read through the letter that I wrote to you yesterday again just now, and then yours again just now. A whole quite long day has taken place in between, very differently flavored from how yesterday’s tasted, I have to confess I haven’t done my homework yet – the homework that you gave me. I’ve tried to do little bit of it, but I haven’t taken the time yet to sit down and properly do it.
I’m a little hesitant to proceed as I feel drawn to doing here… today was significantly “harder” than yesterday, and I confess I prefer the feelings of ease, lightness, effortlessness, and that Life is somehow working “as I would like it to.” At this point, I certainly do have preferences! There is some part of me that wants to whine, to complain, to object to how this day felt. Very different from yesterday. I didn’t get enough sleep last night, and that was the very beginning of an entirely different experience, and yes it turns out I have preferences. I preferred the feeling of Life as I experienced it yesterday… and yet right now, I am aware that yesterday does not exist as anything other than a thought.
Whew.
Thank you again for your patience with me here Elad. Let me see if I can do some of what you’ve called on me to do… and see how that goes.
“Also, once in a while, as you let the seen be the seen and thought be thought and etc. look into: What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
At the moment, I am not sure. I did feel like the doer of what “Joshua” was supposed to be doing today at that new job. I strongly suspect that there is no doer, but as I passed through this day (not very consciously, I fear), it felt very “normal,” very similar to how I am accustomed to living a whole lot of this life on earth. And quite a bit of today was experienced with unhappiness, frustration, boredom.
Please forgive me, Elad, but it has grown so late and I am so tired that I am actually falling asleep as I write to you. I will pick this up again tomorrow and meanwhile ask and hope for your understanding here. I very much appreciate your bringing your energy, and care, and presence in my daily life–just now, and I am eager to focus on the questions you suggest and to do the work that will catalyze the process, that is the process.
I will do all of what you suggest tomorrow and thank you for bearing with me here.
More guidance, please, as and when you are inspired to share it, will be very much appreciated. I look forward to more contact soon.
Very best wishes from
Josh
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Joshua,
As always I appreciate and respect your honesty and openness. Two things to clarify:
1) You will will keep having preferences. You will keep having ups and downs and the range of human emotion. There will be a range of water temperature your body-mind likes, and when it gets significantly colder or hotter, an inner discomfort and impulse to move away will come. Same for ways of being treated and many other things. What will change is that it will be seen how all this functions by itself without any separate doer/self/me making it happen. Just natural.
2) Your sense of self and feeling of self is normal and there will continue to be something like that. That is only feeling and belief. We don't need to make feeling and belief go away. We only need to see very clearly: Is it true that there is no self making them happen? Is it true they are just patterns of life-ing, with a mental narrative on top, deeply habitual and automatic, of an enduring self choosing and doing. This is a very important point. If you look for the truth in what feels right to you, you will only get the "truth of your preferences, habits and deeply held beliefs". We are here to look deeper.
Look forward to hear what you see doing the exercise.
Elad
As always I appreciate and respect your honesty and openness. Two things to clarify:
1) You will will keep having preferences. You will keep having ups and downs and the range of human emotion. There will be a range of water temperature your body-mind likes, and when it gets significantly colder or hotter, an inner discomfort and impulse to move away will come. Same for ways of being treated and many other things. What will change is that it will be seen how all this functions by itself without any separate doer/self/me making it happen. Just natural.
2) Your sense of self and feeling of self is normal and there will continue to be something like that. That is only feeling and belief. We don't need to make feeling and belief go away. We only need to see very clearly: Is it true that there is no self making them happen? Is it true they are just patterns of life-ing, with a mental narrative on top, deeply habitual and automatic, of an enduring self choosing and doing. This is a very important point. If you look for the truth in what feels right to you, you will only get the "truth of your preferences, habits and deeply held beliefs". We are here to look deeper.
Look forward to hear what you see doing the exercise.
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad!
I have to confess to you that I am excited just to have the chance to sit down and re-engage in this conversation. I did a bit of the homework earlier in the day, but then I was out with my wife and two daughters for the whole rest of the day until now. They’re all now in their various beds — or hidden in their rooms at least — and I have another chance to do as you suggested and see where it takes “me”.
OK, so now allow me a moment please to refamiliarize myself with the fun assignment you have given me… first, you wrote:
“…once in a while, as you let the seen be the seen and thought be thought and etc. look into:
*What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
Is it true? I suspect that it is… and maybe strangely, I confess that I really really hope that it is so, or “not so,” that there is no doer, no “I”, no separate, pressured, problem child that endlessly needs something and seeks something and seeks to defend itself… My prayer, my hope is that the dream of that being can be ended. This life has been so much about that entity, and it’s exhausting and narrow and frustrating and — maybe strange to say it — embarrassing almost (but who is embarrassed?), to feel so thoroughly owned by the strange worship it has required. I don’t know what it is that awaits, but I do dream of relief and freedom and peace and laughter and amazement – even as I don’t know, I really don’t know, what it is that is the lived experience of the truth that every teacher and guide — including you — has pointed to as I have watched and listened and read and yearned and continued on this path, sometimes in the midst of quite daunting difficulty and with little to point to (on the conventional level) that would justify my refusal to give up the work, the hope, of this pursuit.
OK, lots of thoughts, yes. Thank you for your patience with me, once again. I notice that none of the above made much of any reference to anything “outside of thought.” When it’s phrased that way, it immediately seems clearer that “I” and/or “the doer” exists within thought, and outside of thought all there is is the seen. Somehow, I can simultaneously say those words, mean them, taste them somewhat, and at the same moment not really understand them.
Perhaps that will do for the moment regarding your first request. Let’s move on and do that very fun exercise again that you gave me, and see what it yields (again - I did it earlier in the day as well).
“Also, do this exercise to deepen the seeing. Be playful with it, attentive and playful :)
Exercise: Is there a controller?
Think of a number between 1 and 53. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared? Did you decide the moment of choice? Do it several times.”
I have now done the exercise a couple more times, just here in the moment as I am writing to you. I can do it more:
Choose a number between one and 53: 27
Choose a number between one and 53: 44
Choose a number between one and 53: 17
Choose a number between one and 53: 16
Choose a number between one and 53: 32
It’s not at all easy to see the exact point when the choice is made. Over here, it felt just like it “popped out” each time. I did not know what number would be chosen before it was chosen. I did not decide the moment of choice. Sometimes it happens slightly more quickly than at other times. Sometimes the thought of the number happened before I was ready for it, before I had finished speaking the question/request.
“Now do a whole sequence, numbers and words, something like this:
14, 34, 2, 15, bum, funny, 3, happy, sad, love, lucy, 2, 3, 17
Be still and attentive between a new number/word appearing. Is there a controller or chooser that makes it appear? There might be the experience of themes in the words, or numbers, etc. Also if that happens, is there a separate self/doer/chooser that made exactly this theme appear now?
Write to me about what you see.”
I had a lot of fun doing this earlier today, and I have been looking forward to doing this again tonight, directly before you. So, here we go: whole sequences of numbers and words, whatever comes and however it comes:
Balls 13 testosterone hat 87 Philippi andromeda 67 philistine war bar boots smile amazement dogshit laughter
OK, gotta do that a few more times here!
Exhaustion 42 36 Job Beelzebub ankle 41 flapjack funnel fungry feckit - no - 94 blabble blockenfus Foop hatpin desiderata nope whatever ordentlich monsieur bing bang 27 29 wopsocket
OK this time I’m gonna go slower and take more time in between to be “still and attentive” in between as you directed:
Hawk
funnel
blog
14, 41, 53, 27
Feet
Spank
Agony
Ancient
Blood
Where is it?
Fine
(Saw an image of) 8
Intimations
My goodness, Elad,it feels like something is waiting in there somehow. Somehow it feels to me as if there is no controller or doer in there and yet somehow it’s like… it’s as if a vastly more creative non-doer source begins to be accessible through “dropping the reins.”
I also had intimations of something else which will be hard to name at the moment… I could feel intensely the profoundly conditioned habit I have, which has been trained in from the earliest times of my life, to come up with clever answers quickly and display them in smarty-pants settings. All of school was characterized by knowing things quickly and seeing them quickly and proving something about this guy as a result… And this exercise somehow feels… like it is maybe the deconstruction, the beginning of the deconstruction of something… I simultaneously want to say more and really don’t want to at all.
Beginning to do the exercise but with intentional quiet and silence in between the entries made it possible to see the tremendous urgency of whatever it is in here that has been trained to come up with answers fast. It was an interesting challenge to try to allow for the silence in between the numbers or words that arose. Very very… something, noteworthy, noticeable.
Boy oh boy, I can’t tell you how much I hope that this is heading where I have dreamed it might… and here again I want to say, I want to be careful not to be owned by any idea of anything in particular, any fantasy of freedom and flow, because I just don’t know what could be.
And yet I have to confess to you that I dream of freedom.
Thank you again, Elad, for all of this. I hope this will do for the moment. I enjoyed it very much, just doing the exercises and writing down what came. I look forward to hearing from you again after you’ve had a chance to review all of this silliness. Which I pray is not silliness.
Best wishes and many thanks again from
Josh(ua)
I have to confess to you that I am excited just to have the chance to sit down and re-engage in this conversation. I did a bit of the homework earlier in the day, but then I was out with my wife and two daughters for the whole rest of the day until now. They’re all now in their various beds — or hidden in their rooms at least — and I have another chance to do as you suggested and see where it takes “me”.
OK, so now allow me a moment please to refamiliarize myself with the fun assignment you have given me… first, you wrote:
“…once in a while, as you let the seen be the seen and thought be thought and etc. look into:
*What is this "I", this "doer"? Is it true that they are just concepts, referring to nothing outside of thought?*
Is it true? I suspect that it is… and maybe strangely, I confess that I really really hope that it is so, or “not so,” that there is no doer, no “I”, no separate, pressured, problem child that endlessly needs something and seeks something and seeks to defend itself… My prayer, my hope is that the dream of that being can be ended. This life has been so much about that entity, and it’s exhausting and narrow and frustrating and — maybe strange to say it — embarrassing almost (but who is embarrassed?), to feel so thoroughly owned by the strange worship it has required. I don’t know what it is that awaits, but I do dream of relief and freedom and peace and laughter and amazement – even as I don’t know, I really don’t know, what it is that is the lived experience of the truth that every teacher and guide — including you — has pointed to as I have watched and listened and read and yearned and continued on this path, sometimes in the midst of quite daunting difficulty and with little to point to (on the conventional level) that would justify my refusal to give up the work, the hope, of this pursuit.
OK, lots of thoughts, yes. Thank you for your patience with me, once again. I notice that none of the above made much of any reference to anything “outside of thought.” When it’s phrased that way, it immediately seems clearer that “I” and/or “the doer” exists within thought, and outside of thought all there is is the seen. Somehow, I can simultaneously say those words, mean them, taste them somewhat, and at the same moment not really understand them.
Perhaps that will do for the moment regarding your first request. Let’s move on and do that very fun exercise again that you gave me, and see what it yields (again - I did it earlier in the day as well).
“Also, do this exercise to deepen the seeing. Be playful with it, attentive and playful :)
Exercise: Is there a controller?
Think of a number between 1 and 53. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared? Did you decide the moment of choice? Do it several times.”
I have now done the exercise a couple more times, just here in the moment as I am writing to you. I can do it more:
Choose a number between one and 53: 27
Choose a number between one and 53: 44
Choose a number between one and 53: 17
Choose a number between one and 53: 16
Choose a number between one and 53: 32
It’s not at all easy to see the exact point when the choice is made. Over here, it felt just like it “popped out” each time. I did not know what number would be chosen before it was chosen. I did not decide the moment of choice. Sometimes it happens slightly more quickly than at other times. Sometimes the thought of the number happened before I was ready for it, before I had finished speaking the question/request.
“Now do a whole sequence, numbers and words, something like this:
14, 34, 2, 15, bum, funny, 3, happy, sad, love, lucy, 2, 3, 17
Be still and attentive between a new number/word appearing. Is there a controller or chooser that makes it appear? There might be the experience of themes in the words, or numbers, etc. Also if that happens, is there a separate self/doer/chooser that made exactly this theme appear now?
Write to me about what you see.”
I had a lot of fun doing this earlier today, and I have been looking forward to doing this again tonight, directly before you. So, here we go: whole sequences of numbers and words, whatever comes and however it comes:
Balls 13 testosterone hat 87 Philippi andromeda 67 philistine war bar boots smile amazement dogshit laughter
OK, gotta do that a few more times here!
Exhaustion 42 36 Job Beelzebub ankle 41 flapjack funnel fungry feckit - no - 94 blabble blockenfus Foop hatpin desiderata nope whatever ordentlich monsieur bing bang 27 29 wopsocket
OK this time I’m gonna go slower and take more time in between to be “still and attentive” in between as you directed:
Hawk
funnel
blog
14, 41, 53, 27
Feet
Spank
Agony
Ancient
Blood
Where is it?
Fine
(Saw an image of) 8
Intimations
My goodness, Elad,it feels like something is waiting in there somehow. Somehow it feels to me as if there is no controller or doer in there and yet somehow it’s like… it’s as if a vastly more creative non-doer source begins to be accessible through “dropping the reins.”
I also had intimations of something else which will be hard to name at the moment… I could feel intensely the profoundly conditioned habit I have, which has been trained in from the earliest times of my life, to come up with clever answers quickly and display them in smarty-pants settings. All of school was characterized by knowing things quickly and seeing them quickly and proving something about this guy as a result… And this exercise somehow feels… like it is maybe the deconstruction, the beginning of the deconstruction of something… I simultaneously want to say more and really don’t want to at all.
Beginning to do the exercise but with intentional quiet and silence in between the entries made it possible to see the tremendous urgency of whatever it is in here that has been trained to come up with answers fast. It was an interesting challenge to try to allow for the silence in between the numbers or words that arose. Very very… something, noteworthy, noticeable.
Boy oh boy, I can’t tell you how much I hope that this is heading where I have dreamed it might… and here again I want to say, I want to be careful not to be owned by any idea of anything in particular, any fantasy of freedom and flow, because I just don’t know what could be.
And yet I have to confess to you that I dream of freedom.
Thank you again, Elad, for all of this. I hope this will do for the moment. I enjoyed it very much, just doing the exercises and writing down what came. I look forward to hearing from you again after you’ve had a chance to review all of this silliness. Which I pray is not silliness.
Best wishes and many thanks again from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua, beautiful!!
Yes, you are right at the gate. Now keep looking, wholeheartedly, playfully, many short times, or long times - experiment and follow your care and playfulness and intuition.
Keep looking at this: Is there a separate Joshua anywhere deciding and controlling anything in direct experience?
And keep looking at this: Is there anyone/anything that can predict or control exactly the unfoldment/emergence moment to moment? Including the unfoldment of the character Joshua, the characters thoughts, feelings, movements, etc?
Follow your intuition and either stay with the above, and bring that into your morning meditations playfully, or (if intuition says so) also do this during morning meditation:
See the emergence of thoughts. What is not thought? What is not constructed? How vividly and subtly can you see the construction of seeming meaning and stability in real time, and what does that reveal?
Enjoying the journey with you!
Elad
Yes, you are right at the gate. Now keep looking, wholeheartedly, playfully, many short times, or long times - experiment and follow your care and playfulness and intuition.
Keep looking at this: Is there a separate Joshua anywhere deciding and controlling anything in direct experience?
And keep looking at this: Is there anyone/anything that can predict or control exactly the unfoldment/emergence moment to moment? Including the unfoldment of the character Joshua, the characters thoughts, feelings, movements, etc?
Follow your intuition and either stay with the above, and bring that into your morning meditations playfully, or (if intuition says so) also do this during morning meditation:
See the emergence of thoughts. What is not thought? What is not constructed? How vividly and subtly can you see the construction of seeming meaning and stability in real time, and what does that reveal?
Enjoying the journey with you!
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad -
I began writing this note to you several times earlier this evening, and the combination of exhaustion from the day, and self-consciousness, and stuckness and cluelessness is all of a sudden quite dramatic. I feel self-conscious! I feel somehow almost even worried! I want to keep going in this good way that you have named as “near the gate, right at the gate”! Now I want to do things “right,“ but things have become a little complicated, at least in my feeling here.
I would like to try to drop that entirely and come back to your guidance and follow you as closely as I can and see where we go:
“Hi Joshua, beautiful!! Yes, you are right at the gate.”
First of all, thank you for this, Elad. But let’s see if I can actually follow you here.
“Now keep looking, wholeheartedly, playfully, many short times, or long times - experiment and follow your care and playfulness and intuition…Keep looking at this: Is there a separate Joshua anywhere deciding and controlling anything in direct experience?” [re-reading after writing my response to you: No, there isn’t. The first writing continues below.]
My answer is immediately “no”, but I don’t think I’m actually looking at the moment… Instead it feels like I’m answering too-quickly, from my smarty-pants-ness, from Mr. Clever-Answers-Brain. It almost feels like I don’t know or remember how to slow down and just look. How do I just look, again? By keeping quiet, and just…stopping Mr Busy? Somehow it genuinely feels like I don’t know how to look for this as you are asking me to do. And yet, also, I can distantly remember that phrase you used a day or two ago about “Does the separate I exist anywhere outside of thought?” I definitely don’t believe that there is a separate Joshua anywhere deciding or controlling anything… but at the moment I don’t feel like I own that knowledge directly, and at the same time must admit to feelings of confusion and unclarity.
But let me go on here and try to follow you more:
“…And keep looking at this: Is there anyone/anything that can predict or control exactly the unfoldment/emergence moment to moment? Including the unfoldment of the character Joshua, the characters thoughts, feelings, movements, etc?”
No, I don’t think that there is anyone or anything that can predict or control exactly how all of this unfolds/emerges moment to moment, including of the character Joshua or any of his/its thoughts, feelings, movements etc. But I felt able to experience this knowing directly yesterday, and today I am somehow nervous, and my belief feels like it is based on a memory - and not a very clear one at that -and less on of seeing anything very clearly right now.
Back to you and your guidance:
“Follow your intuition and either stay with the above, and bring that into your morning meditations playfully, or (if intuition says so) also do this during morning meditation: See the emergence of thoughts. What is not thought? What is not constructed? How vividly and subtly can you see the construction of seeming meaning and stability in real time, and what does that reveal?”
I feel stricken to confess that I am not following you successfully now. It feels like something has clenched, some kind of fear, almost, has grabbed at something, and I feel clueless and opaque and like I’ve lost sight of my guide as you lead onward. Even as I write this to you, I am suspicious that some part of me has succumbed to something fearful.. fearful of the implications and potentials of what you are trying to help me see here. I am frustrated that it is not all just yielding itself to me right away, but at the moment these are the feelings, this is the experience, and I am feeling somewhat disappointed at least.
I have been enjoying this journey tremendously with you as well, Elad. I seem to have hit a bump here. Maybe the bump only exists in thinking too… I could use a bit of help with this bump here, that is for sure. I hope this is not as desperately disappointing to you as my brain almost wants to declare that it is. Phooey.
Help, please. Can we try this again somehow? What’s happening here? Have you seen such things before? Am I without hope here? What is going on with this, with me, with such a development?
Thank you for your kindness and guidance again, Elad. I look forward to continuing the conversation with you and hope you will bear with me again here.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
I began writing this note to you several times earlier this evening, and the combination of exhaustion from the day, and self-consciousness, and stuckness and cluelessness is all of a sudden quite dramatic. I feel self-conscious! I feel somehow almost even worried! I want to keep going in this good way that you have named as “near the gate, right at the gate”! Now I want to do things “right,“ but things have become a little complicated, at least in my feeling here.
I would like to try to drop that entirely and come back to your guidance and follow you as closely as I can and see where we go:
“Hi Joshua, beautiful!! Yes, you are right at the gate.”
First of all, thank you for this, Elad. But let’s see if I can actually follow you here.
“Now keep looking, wholeheartedly, playfully, many short times, or long times - experiment and follow your care and playfulness and intuition…Keep looking at this: Is there a separate Joshua anywhere deciding and controlling anything in direct experience?” [re-reading after writing my response to you: No, there isn’t. The first writing continues below.]
My answer is immediately “no”, but I don’t think I’m actually looking at the moment… Instead it feels like I’m answering too-quickly, from my smarty-pants-ness, from Mr. Clever-Answers-Brain. It almost feels like I don’t know or remember how to slow down and just look. How do I just look, again? By keeping quiet, and just…stopping Mr Busy? Somehow it genuinely feels like I don’t know how to look for this as you are asking me to do. And yet, also, I can distantly remember that phrase you used a day or two ago about “Does the separate I exist anywhere outside of thought?” I definitely don’t believe that there is a separate Joshua anywhere deciding or controlling anything… but at the moment I don’t feel like I own that knowledge directly, and at the same time must admit to feelings of confusion and unclarity.
But let me go on here and try to follow you more:
“…And keep looking at this: Is there anyone/anything that can predict or control exactly the unfoldment/emergence moment to moment? Including the unfoldment of the character Joshua, the characters thoughts, feelings, movements, etc?”
No, I don’t think that there is anyone or anything that can predict or control exactly how all of this unfolds/emerges moment to moment, including of the character Joshua or any of his/its thoughts, feelings, movements etc. But I felt able to experience this knowing directly yesterday, and today I am somehow nervous, and my belief feels like it is based on a memory - and not a very clear one at that -and less on of seeing anything very clearly right now.
Back to you and your guidance:
“Follow your intuition and either stay with the above, and bring that into your morning meditations playfully, or (if intuition says so) also do this during morning meditation: See the emergence of thoughts. What is not thought? What is not constructed? How vividly and subtly can you see the construction of seeming meaning and stability in real time, and what does that reveal?”
I feel stricken to confess that I am not following you successfully now. It feels like something has clenched, some kind of fear, almost, has grabbed at something, and I feel clueless and opaque and like I’ve lost sight of my guide as you lead onward. Even as I write this to you, I am suspicious that some part of me has succumbed to something fearful.. fearful of the implications and potentials of what you are trying to help me see here. I am frustrated that it is not all just yielding itself to me right away, but at the moment these are the feelings, this is the experience, and I am feeling somewhat disappointed at least.
I have been enjoying this journey tremendously with you as well, Elad. I seem to have hit a bump here. Maybe the bump only exists in thinking too… I could use a bit of help with this bump here, that is for sure. I hope this is not as desperately disappointing to you as my brain almost wants to declare that it is. Phooey.
Help, please. Can we try this again somehow? What’s happening here? Have you seen such things before? Am I without hope here? What is going on with this, with me, with such a development?
Thank you for your kindness and guidance again, Elad. I look forward to continuing the conversation with you and hope you will bear with me again here.
Best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hello dear Joshua,
Sense here is you have seen, then you re-identify with thinking and doubt. This is very normal, no worries. Just keep noticing that no self is in control of this movement, no self is succeeding or failing. There is just seeing and then there is believing you don't see, and it's normal that this goes on. Sometimes when we have a very intellectually trained mind and a lot of spiritual experiences and knowledge, this can seemingly be more complex, but no worries, in essence it's the same, it's the above. Please watch the following two videos, they let me know how you react to them:
https://youtu.be/ddzh_of35uw?si=K3IJue8K3MfBgwDc
And:
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=JMcJmWYaoWw2SuWg
Also, do this exercise:
“I” labelling
Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.
-----
Don't worry Joshua, no one is in control, and we are not in a hurry. I'm with you, this will unfold as it is supposed to. Stay whole-hearted and trust that any display of mind can come, it's fine, it's just part of it. Keep looking.
Elad
Sense here is you have seen, then you re-identify with thinking and doubt. This is very normal, no worries. Just keep noticing that no self is in control of this movement, no self is succeeding or failing. There is just seeing and then there is believing you don't see, and it's normal that this goes on. Sometimes when we have a very intellectually trained mind and a lot of spiritual experiences and knowledge, this can seemingly be more complex, but no worries, in essence it's the same, it's the above. Please watch the following two videos, they let me know how you react to them:
https://youtu.be/ddzh_of35uw?si=K3IJue8K3MfBgwDc
And:
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=JMcJmWYaoWw2SuWg
Also, do this exercise:
“I” labelling
Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.
-----
Don't worry Joshua, no one is in control, and we are not in a hurry. I'm with you, this will unfold as it is supposed to. Stay whole-hearted and trust that any display of mind can come, it's fine, it's just part of it. Keep looking.
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Oh, and: This process naturally disrupts some avoidance patterns, and more of the experiential and emotional rainbow is experienced. At times the colors are quite dark, painful, scary, confusing. None of that is wrong. And - we wanna have compassion for it.
If you wanna write me about the fear in this, that is a good thing to do too.
If you wanna write me about the fear in this, that is a good thing to do too.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad –
Good evening. Thank you so much for your understanding as I passed – or as I am even now passing – through whatever this challenging-feeling state was (or is)… and for sending me those videos and that homework exercise.
I watched both videos earlier in today, and then watched the first one again later (really, half of that one) and the second one again too. Before watching the second time, I also did the exercise you recommended. My reactions to the films are at least somewhat reflective of some long-established habits of mind, habits of seeking, habits of “experiencing myself.” I will tell you more about those in detail in a moment; first, though I’m not sure why, I would like to tell you about how the exercise went that you recommended: the “I” labeling exercise:
I took a sheet of paper, drew a line down the center of it, labeled the left side “Self” and the right side, for lack of a better choice, “Other.” And then set the timer for 5 Minutes and waited to see what happened.
Although I may have judged some of the thoughts that then arose incorrectly -- as to which side of the page they belonged on, that is -- what appeared was as follows: either every single thought that appeared during those five minutes was “self” oriented, or almost all of them were with maybe 2-3 exceptions. The vast majority clearly had to do with “I, Me, Mine.” I wasn’t expecting the results of this exercise to be quite so dramatically one-sided.
Now, back to the videos: I had strong, complicated reactions to both, to do with (I think) some of the difficulties and prejudices of my habitual “way of mind” in this life “I” apparently lead on this earth.
First, the responses I had while listening to Ilona and Luchana in Video #1, as they discussed the common “Expectations of Awakening” they notice among seekers they have worked with:
From my perspective just now (admittedly a couple of hours after having watched Video #1), the way I & L speak feels both highly recognizable to me (I’ve heard many such pointers before) and at the same time somewhat frustrating to not really actually experience what they both are driving at. Have I heard before that nothing needs to change, that the Gateless Gate is not about an experience, that this process is not about becoming a holy person, or having only lovely experiences once I (who does not exist) wake up? Yes, such pointers have been heard here before.
Do I perceive in myself both a definite grumpiness as well as the possibility that I missed the center of what they were driving at in that video? Yes indeed. At the moment, I must admit that it feels as if the thinking mind has taken over here, and that I might not even be remembering clearly what Ilona and Luchana were truly driving at in that video.
Which brings me to at least a bit of commentary on Video #2, in which Ilona discusses the “integration of awakening:” how to handle the apparent complications that can be part of the process of seeing and shifting.
“Once the initial recognition happens, a new way to see everything opens up,” Ilona says at the very beginning. “The old way longer makes sense, and the new way is not stable yet.”
Allow me to interrupt myself for a moment here to make a point: Elad, you wrote at the outset of your most recent message to me: “Sense here is you have seen, then you re-identify with thinking and doubt. This is very normal, no worries.”
I am not sure at the moment what it is that I have seen, exactly. With your help and guidance, I did begin to appreciate the possibility that “I” exists nowhere outside of thought, yes. At the same time, this brain that has been put through a fairly large amount of schooling, and that grew up in a family and a tradition and a society that strongly prioritized the identification with intellect and thinking, wants to run the show, maybe IS running the show.
I must admit to you, among other somewhat embarrassing truths, that in my career as a seeker pursuing this “Path of Wisdom,” I have preferred teachers of awakening like Rupert Spira and Eckhart Tolle – which is to say, teachers whose command of English was strong and subtle. I do not doubt the authenticity of the teaching and the testimony of either Ilona or of Luchana. At the same time though, I confess I have a hard time following them perfectly.
Even as I write this to you, I have the strong suspicion that my preferences may really just be a way for the mind to obscure the clarity (and the benefits) of teachings that are trying to come into consciousness here.
And maybe all of this is a way to ask whether the difficulties and challenges I have experienced in this process may really just be excuses to stay stuck in the mind.
“Mr Fancy Thoughts” fears his own death. “He” may be holding on for dear life. And even if all of this noise is just illusory, it is what comes up at this point. At very least, I feel like I need help to see through all of this, even if it is just be vaporous silliness, unreality, nothing at all.
Following on the ideas of Video #2: I am scared to “free-fall.” I am nauseated by the possibility of losing my habitual experience of life as a separate self, full of suffering though it often is. And yet, freedom from it is everything I want. Even as I don’t really know what Life will be like on the other side of the Gateless Gate, and I am sure I am filled with many of the presumptions they pointed to together in Video #1
I don’t deeply understand the perspectives that Ilona and Luchana embodied and shared in that first hour-long video. Not the seekers’ “wrongheaded” expectations – those I understand, even as I can see the falseness of many of them. What I don’t understand from my own lived experience is their testimony about their lived experience on the “other side” of the Gateless Gate. I wish I could, but at this point I don’t.
Can you help me get there? I very much hope so!
Thank you for everything so far, Elad, including your kindness and patience with me once again. I look forward eagerly to hearing from you again and to continuing our conversation.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Good evening. Thank you so much for your understanding as I passed – or as I am even now passing – through whatever this challenging-feeling state was (or is)… and for sending me those videos and that homework exercise.
I watched both videos earlier in today, and then watched the first one again later (really, half of that one) and the second one again too. Before watching the second time, I also did the exercise you recommended. My reactions to the films are at least somewhat reflective of some long-established habits of mind, habits of seeking, habits of “experiencing myself.” I will tell you more about those in detail in a moment; first, though I’m not sure why, I would like to tell you about how the exercise went that you recommended: the “I” labeling exercise:
I took a sheet of paper, drew a line down the center of it, labeled the left side “Self” and the right side, for lack of a better choice, “Other.” And then set the timer for 5 Minutes and waited to see what happened.
Although I may have judged some of the thoughts that then arose incorrectly -- as to which side of the page they belonged on, that is -- what appeared was as follows: either every single thought that appeared during those five minutes was “self” oriented, or almost all of them were with maybe 2-3 exceptions. The vast majority clearly had to do with “I, Me, Mine.” I wasn’t expecting the results of this exercise to be quite so dramatically one-sided.
Now, back to the videos: I had strong, complicated reactions to both, to do with (I think) some of the difficulties and prejudices of my habitual “way of mind” in this life “I” apparently lead on this earth.
First, the responses I had while listening to Ilona and Luchana in Video #1, as they discussed the common “Expectations of Awakening” they notice among seekers they have worked with:
From my perspective just now (admittedly a couple of hours after having watched Video #1), the way I & L speak feels both highly recognizable to me (I’ve heard many such pointers before) and at the same time somewhat frustrating to not really actually experience what they both are driving at. Have I heard before that nothing needs to change, that the Gateless Gate is not about an experience, that this process is not about becoming a holy person, or having only lovely experiences once I (who does not exist) wake up? Yes, such pointers have been heard here before.
Do I perceive in myself both a definite grumpiness as well as the possibility that I missed the center of what they were driving at in that video? Yes indeed. At the moment, I must admit that it feels as if the thinking mind has taken over here, and that I might not even be remembering clearly what Ilona and Luchana were truly driving at in that video.
Which brings me to at least a bit of commentary on Video #2, in which Ilona discusses the “integration of awakening:” how to handle the apparent complications that can be part of the process of seeing and shifting.
“Once the initial recognition happens, a new way to see everything opens up,” Ilona says at the very beginning. “The old way longer makes sense, and the new way is not stable yet.”
Allow me to interrupt myself for a moment here to make a point: Elad, you wrote at the outset of your most recent message to me: “Sense here is you have seen, then you re-identify with thinking and doubt. This is very normal, no worries.”
I am not sure at the moment what it is that I have seen, exactly. With your help and guidance, I did begin to appreciate the possibility that “I” exists nowhere outside of thought, yes. At the same time, this brain that has been put through a fairly large amount of schooling, and that grew up in a family and a tradition and a society that strongly prioritized the identification with intellect and thinking, wants to run the show, maybe IS running the show.
I must admit to you, among other somewhat embarrassing truths, that in my career as a seeker pursuing this “Path of Wisdom,” I have preferred teachers of awakening like Rupert Spira and Eckhart Tolle – which is to say, teachers whose command of English was strong and subtle. I do not doubt the authenticity of the teaching and the testimony of either Ilona or of Luchana. At the same time though, I confess I have a hard time following them perfectly.
Even as I write this to you, I have the strong suspicion that my preferences may really just be a way for the mind to obscure the clarity (and the benefits) of teachings that are trying to come into consciousness here.
And maybe all of this is a way to ask whether the difficulties and challenges I have experienced in this process may really just be excuses to stay stuck in the mind.
“Mr Fancy Thoughts” fears his own death. “He” may be holding on for dear life. And even if all of this noise is just illusory, it is what comes up at this point. At very least, I feel like I need help to see through all of this, even if it is just be vaporous silliness, unreality, nothing at all.
Following on the ideas of Video #2: I am scared to “free-fall.” I am nauseated by the possibility of losing my habitual experience of life as a separate self, full of suffering though it often is. And yet, freedom from it is everything I want. Even as I don’t really know what Life will be like on the other side of the Gateless Gate, and I am sure I am filled with many of the presumptions they pointed to together in Video #1
I don’t deeply understand the perspectives that Ilona and Luchana embodied and shared in that first hour-long video. Not the seekers’ “wrongheaded” expectations – those I understand, even as I can see the falseness of many of them. What I don’t understand from my own lived experience is their testimony about their lived experience on the “other side” of the Gateless Gate. I wish I could, but at this point I don’t.
Can you help me get there? I very much hope so!
Thank you for everything so far, Elad, including your kindness and patience with me once again. I look forward eagerly to hearing from you again and to continuing our conversation.
With best wishes from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Hi Joshua,
Sounds like you did some solid observing on the exercise :)
Re all the rest. The intuition here is you gotta really focus on what is your direct experience. Second guessing and hoping to be saved will not work. Speculating will not work.
Focus on seeing and staying true to your lived truth.
This is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.
That being said: you gotta own your direct experience, call it doubt, call it whatever seems right or don't call it anything, and bring 100% commitment to own it and find truth in it yourself.
Engage fully in what I wrote to you here. Don't accept "I can't" or "this can't work" or something like that, don't leave what I wrote here before you have a clear shift.
Report to me on what happens,
With you and committed,
Elad
Sounds like you did some solid observing on the exercise :)
Re all the rest. The intuition here is you gotta really focus on what is your direct experience. Second guessing and hoping to be saved will not work. Speculating will not work.
Focus on seeing and staying true to your lived truth.
This is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.
That being said: you gotta own your direct experience, call it doubt, call it whatever seems right or don't call it anything, and bring 100% commitment to own it and find truth in it yourself.
Engage fully in what I wrote to you here. Don't accept "I can't" or "this can't work" or something like that, don't leave what I wrote here before you have a clear shift.
Report to me on what happens,
With you and committed,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Greetings Elad -
It has been a very long day, yet only just one single day, since I last wrote to you. What a strange thing to be here, not even a full 24 hours after receiving your most recent response, and to have come into such a new-feeling place, such a different-feeling place from where I and things were, and how I and things felt this morning. Not that I’m sorry for the change. The feeling that I was enveloped in last night as I wrote you all those words was not a very pleasant feeling, quite confused and somewhat depressed, and the thoughts were… just too much. Perhaps we can talk about what that was sometime…later?
It took me a little while — this full day — but it was so interesting to come back just now to what you most recently wrote to me, after having read those same words this morning, all those hours ago. (That’s been my practice by the way, as you of course have seen: I have enjoyed moving into this rhythm, in which I write to you at the very end of my day, then go to bed, and then in the morning wake up and look out for your response — which I imagine because of our different locations and time zones works out to be composable for you in the hours while I am still asleep. I am enjoying this rhythm we’ve found, I must say.)
In any case: it was good to read your most recent note again just now, in which it felt like you quite skillfully and pointedly did not get sucked into the brain-noise that Mr. Brain-Noise Man made and shared yesterday. Thank you! I believe I should probably say thank you again for that.
You wrote wonderfully briefly in that most recent note! What follows is almost the whole thing, which I bring back in just to have what you said right at hand so as to respond directly. You said:
“Re all the rest. The intuition here is you gotta really focus on what is your direct experience. Second guessing and hoping to be saved will not work. Speculating will not work.
Focus on seeing and staying true to your lived truth…
This is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.
That being said: you gotta own your direct experience, call it doubt, call it whatever seems right or don't call it anything, and bring 100% commitment to own it and find truth in it yourself.
Engage fully in what I wrote to you here. Don't accept "I can't" or "this can't work" or something like that, don't leave what I wrote here before you have a clear shift.
Report to me on what happens.”
I will do so! I would love to do so! After having been so caught up in swirling mind-chatter-stuff most recently, it feels at the moment like all of that noise sort of melted away, and I am left…here. Very much wanting to do just as you advise: to focus on and stay true to my lived truth. To engage fully in and with what you’ve written. Not accepting “I can’t” or “this can’t work. I will not leave what you wrote here before I have a clear shift… and yet also…
Is it very strange that I’m not exactly sure of what you wrote here, of what you’re calling for me to do? What did you write here? What am I to do now? It feels a little strange to admit it, but I’m not sure what you are pointing at, what you are asking me to do exactly, and I don’t know how to proceed at this point. Can you help me find my way back to what perhaps should be obvious, and to proceed from there?
Thank you for all of this Elad, and yet again for your patience with me. Thank you also for your kind reassurances in that note, specifically when you said “…this is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.” Thank you for that, and for all of this.
I am eager to follow your guidance here, a little struck by the present sense of confusion I’m in, glad at least to have moved onward from the intensely swirling mind-mists of yesterday, and looking forward to hearing from you again and to continuing with this process.
With best wishes and sincere thanks from
Josh(ua)
It has been a very long day, yet only just one single day, since I last wrote to you. What a strange thing to be here, not even a full 24 hours after receiving your most recent response, and to have come into such a new-feeling place, such a different-feeling place from where I and things were, and how I and things felt this morning. Not that I’m sorry for the change. The feeling that I was enveloped in last night as I wrote you all those words was not a very pleasant feeling, quite confused and somewhat depressed, and the thoughts were… just too much. Perhaps we can talk about what that was sometime…later?
It took me a little while — this full day — but it was so interesting to come back just now to what you most recently wrote to me, after having read those same words this morning, all those hours ago. (That’s been my practice by the way, as you of course have seen: I have enjoyed moving into this rhythm, in which I write to you at the very end of my day, then go to bed, and then in the morning wake up and look out for your response — which I imagine because of our different locations and time zones works out to be composable for you in the hours while I am still asleep. I am enjoying this rhythm we’ve found, I must say.)
In any case: it was good to read your most recent note again just now, in which it felt like you quite skillfully and pointedly did not get sucked into the brain-noise that Mr. Brain-Noise Man made and shared yesterday. Thank you! I believe I should probably say thank you again for that.
You wrote wonderfully briefly in that most recent note! What follows is almost the whole thing, which I bring back in just to have what you said right at hand so as to respond directly. You said:
“Re all the rest. The intuition here is you gotta really focus on what is your direct experience. Second guessing and hoping to be saved will not work. Speculating will not work.
Focus on seeing and staying true to your lived truth…
This is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.
That being said: you gotta own your direct experience, call it doubt, call it whatever seems right or don't call it anything, and bring 100% commitment to own it and find truth in it yourself.
Engage fully in what I wrote to you here. Don't accept "I can't" or "this can't work" or something like that, don't leave what I wrote here before you have a clear shift.
Report to me on what happens.”
I will do so! I would love to do so! After having been so caught up in swirling mind-chatter-stuff most recently, it feels at the moment like all of that noise sort of melted away, and I am left…here. Very much wanting to do just as you advise: to focus on and stay true to my lived truth. To engage fully in and with what you’ve written. Not accepting “I can’t” or “this can’t work. I will not leave what you wrote here before I have a clear shift… and yet also…
Is it very strange that I’m not exactly sure of what you wrote here, of what you’re calling for me to do? What did you write here? What am I to do now? It feels a little strange to admit it, but I’m not sure what you are pointing at, what you are asking me to do exactly, and I don’t know how to proceed at this point. Can you help me find my way back to what perhaps should be obvious, and to proceed from there?
Thank you for all of this Elad, and yet again for your patience with me. Thank you also for your kind reassurances in that note, specifically when you said “…this is not a criticism and also not me not wanting to be with you. I am enjoying working with you and I'm with you till you feel you are clear and through.” Thank you for that, and for all of this.
I am eager to follow your guidance here, a little struck by the present sense of confusion I’m in, glad at least to have moved onward from the intensely swirling mind-mists of yesterday, and looking forward to hearing from you again and to continuing with this process.
With best wishes and sincere thanks from
Josh(ua)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Lovely to read you Joshua. It will always be possible to doubt and be confused within thinking. Don't try to fully understand in terms of thinking,
Rather look into: what in fact is this doubt and confusion? Where is it, what is it?? Don't go the explanation and story telling bla bla. Look what is it in direct experience. Then look closer, whatever you find or don't, what is it really? Does it have any existence outside of bla bla? Get passionate about the truth that lives in you.
Remember, this doubt is not about something lacking or to be understood outside. Rather, what is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience.
I remind, this is not about explaining to me or anyone else, this is about seeing the truth in the heart of your experience. Then maybe you will say to me: carrot.
Also, while we do this as long as it's called for, watch for creating timeline stories about how this works. This is not a linear process in time.
Rather look into: what in fact is this doubt and confusion? Where is it, what is it?? Don't go the explanation and story telling bla bla. Look what is it in direct experience. Then look closer, whatever you find or don't, what is it really? Does it have any existence outside of bla bla? Get passionate about the truth that lives in you.
Remember, this doubt is not about something lacking or to be understood outside. Rather, what is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience.
I remind, this is not about explaining to me or anyone else, this is about seeing the truth in the heart of your experience. Then maybe you will say to me: carrot.
Also, while we do this as long as it's called for, watch for creating timeline stories about how this works. This is not a linear process in time.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hello!-JoshO
Dear Elad –
Thank you again for being in this process with me. I am sitting down now, at the end of yet another quite long day of life, hardly able to believe how long it has been since I have actively focused, or refocused, on this work here with you, which, none of this feels to me, like the most basic and central activity of my life – even as I go off and live every day and do my work tasks and come home and make dinner for my daughters, and clean up my email situation, and every other small piece of daily business that has taken up my activity today.
After all of that, after everything, with my girls asleep in their beds, and the first day of school for both of them looming tomorrow early, I come back and refocus and (I hope), benefit a little bit from having dropped my effortful mentalizing about “this.”
And I must listen to you again: “It will always be possible to doubt and be confused within thinking. Don't try to fully understand in terms of thinking,
Rather look into: what in fact is this doubt and confusion? Where is it, what is it?? Don't go the explanation and story telling bla bla. Look what is it in direct experience. Then look closer, whatever you find or don't, what is it really? Does it have any existence outside of bla bla?”
No, I don't think that it does.
“Don’t try to fully understand in terms of thinking,” you said. “what, in fact is this doubt and confusion?” you said. “Where is it, what is it?... Does it have any existence outside of bla bla?”
No, I don’t believe it does. And this begins to be a new way of looking at how I have been living this life forever. I don’t even want to get articulate about what it is that needs to be seen… Because the effortful articulation is part of the magic spell I’ve been yearning to be free of, I thikn.
Maybe it’s not quite right to think of it that way (or to think so hard generally), but I have had the feeling for a very long time that this work strongly involves the breaking of a magical, hypnotic spell, and that I haven’t known how to go about breaking that spell. But the breaking of it has been one of the goals of the work, of my seeking, maybe. When you talk about “don’t try to fully understand, in terms of thinking”, and “does the problem have any existence outside of blabla?” I feel like I am on the lip, the precipice of something, of a whole shift in the way of orienting to life, of which the old one needs to be shucked, given up, seen through, dropped. The sensation is like that I have been living inside an imaginary bubble, and yet that bubble is an entire way of life. Somehow I feel a little scared to move outside of it – even if it’s turning out to be a delusion.
“What is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience?” you asked.
I have a funny feeling, as I read and re-read what you wrote to me, that I simultaneously don’t understand what you’ve written to me, what you’ve asked me, and yet that your questions ring true.
Somehow the doubt and the thorn feel connected. Are they the very same thing? What is my deep habitual need for mental understanding? How do I see the truth in the heart of my existence? What is that seeing like? What am I looking for? Carrot?
Watch this, now, I’m going to do a thought dance for you and point at something fancy and maybe irrelevant: I’m re”minded” by your use of that word that the painter Cezanne once said something like that at long last, when the shift in vision is ripe enough for the whole world, the revolution will be triggered by the true seeing of a carrot.
Irrelevant? Quite possibly maybe. But it was a thought that appeared, and I shared it. Thanks for indulging me and the habits that I haven’t yet freed myself of.
Part of the freedom here is my presumptuous readiness to say things that I suspect are essentially stupid wastes of time. I’m hopeful not to do too much time-wasting, but I also do want to share what actually arises over here, and that did. As has the urge to run away from looking as you’ve directed me to do. I don’t seem to know how, exactly.
“What is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience?” you asked.
I keep trying to achieve something here, and I keep not knowing what it is or what “feels” like it is missing. I do have quite a lot of ideas, just as Ilona and Luchana described, of what I think or hope it will look like when freedom has been achieved, but I suspect I may have things exactly backward… and yet I don’t really know what I’m talking about.
Elad, it is very late, and I need to go to bed so as to get up extra early tomorrow. Please be patient with me here, and help me to see what I am not seeing here. I expect that you cannot do it for me, that no one can – but I also sometimes fear that I am a hopeless case, and that my dream of freedom is wrongheaded, that I have been barking up the wrong tree for my whole adult life.
Somehow, as I say that, the suspicion comes that I have been barking up the wrong tree for many years, and that that is perhaps quite normal and part of the process of extracting that thorn.
Cluelessness abounds. I look forward to hearing from you again. And I thank you again.
Best wishes till tomorrow morning from
Josh(ua)
Thank you again for being in this process with me. I am sitting down now, at the end of yet another quite long day of life, hardly able to believe how long it has been since I have actively focused, or refocused, on this work here with you, which, none of this feels to me, like the most basic and central activity of my life – even as I go off and live every day and do my work tasks and come home and make dinner for my daughters, and clean up my email situation, and every other small piece of daily business that has taken up my activity today.
After all of that, after everything, with my girls asleep in their beds, and the first day of school for both of them looming tomorrow early, I come back and refocus and (I hope), benefit a little bit from having dropped my effortful mentalizing about “this.”
And I must listen to you again: “It will always be possible to doubt and be confused within thinking. Don't try to fully understand in terms of thinking,
Rather look into: what in fact is this doubt and confusion? Where is it, what is it?? Don't go the explanation and story telling bla bla. Look what is it in direct experience. Then look closer, whatever you find or don't, what is it really? Does it have any existence outside of bla bla?”
No, I don't think that it does.
“Don’t try to fully understand in terms of thinking,” you said. “what, in fact is this doubt and confusion?” you said. “Where is it, what is it?... Does it have any existence outside of bla bla?”
No, I don’t believe it does. And this begins to be a new way of looking at how I have been living this life forever. I don’t even want to get articulate about what it is that needs to be seen… Because the effortful articulation is part of the magic spell I’ve been yearning to be free of, I thikn.
Maybe it’s not quite right to think of it that way (or to think so hard generally), but I have had the feeling for a very long time that this work strongly involves the breaking of a magical, hypnotic spell, and that I haven’t known how to go about breaking that spell. But the breaking of it has been one of the goals of the work, of my seeking, maybe. When you talk about “don’t try to fully understand, in terms of thinking”, and “does the problem have any existence outside of blabla?” I feel like I am on the lip, the precipice of something, of a whole shift in the way of orienting to life, of which the old one needs to be shucked, given up, seen through, dropped. The sensation is like that I have been living inside an imaginary bubble, and yet that bubble is an entire way of life. Somehow I feel a little scared to move outside of it – even if it’s turning out to be a delusion.
“What is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience?” you asked.
I have a funny feeling, as I read and re-read what you wrote to me, that I simultaneously don’t understand what you’ve written to me, what you’ve asked me, and yet that your questions ring true.
Somehow the doubt and the thorn feel connected. Are they the very same thing? What is my deep habitual need for mental understanding? How do I see the truth in the heart of my existence? What is that seeing like? What am I looking for? Carrot?
Watch this, now, I’m going to do a thought dance for you and point at something fancy and maybe irrelevant: I’m re”minded” by your use of that word that the painter Cezanne once said something like that at long last, when the shift in vision is ripe enough for the whole world, the revolution will be triggered by the true seeing of a carrot.
Irrelevant? Quite possibly maybe. But it was a thought that appeared, and I shared it. Thanks for indulging me and the habits that I haven’t yet freed myself of.
Part of the freedom here is my presumptuous readiness to say things that I suspect are essentially stupid wastes of time. I’m hopeful not to do too much time-wasting, but I also do want to share what actually arises over here, and that did. As has the urge to run away from looking as you’ve directed me to do. I don’t seem to know how, exactly.
“What is this thorn seemingly nagging you at the core of your experience?” you asked.
I keep trying to achieve something here, and I keep not knowing what it is or what “feels” like it is missing. I do have quite a lot of ideas, just as Ilona and Luchana described, of what I think or hope it will look like when freedom has been achieved, but I suspect I may have things exactly backward… and yet I don’t really know what I’m talking about.
Elad, it is very late, and I need to go to bed so as to get up extra early tomorrow. Please be patient with me here, and help me to see what I am not seeing here. I expect that you cannot do it for me, that no one can – but I also sometimes fear that I am a hopeless case, and that my dream of freedom is wrongheaded, that I have been barking up the wrong tree for my whole adult life.
Somehow, as I say that, the suspicion comes that I have been barking up the wrong tree for many years, and that that is perhaps quite normal and part of the process of extracting that thorn.
Cluelessness abounds. I look forward to hearing from you again. And I thank you again.
Best wishes till tomorrow morning from
Josh(ua)
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