Feet first (or should it be head first?)

[Anastacia42]

Tomorrow for that is fine.

The labels have no effect on reality, but for want of better words, they have an effect on my version of reality.

They affect your *thoughts,* the story you tell about things. Nothing more.

This is the same as thoughts about a "self," which cannot be found in Direct Experience.

Loving,

[jrm72]

Stacy,

I'm posting a copy of the message below, because it appeared as a separate thread, and it's easier for me to have everything in one place -

-----copy below----

Tomorrow for that is fine.
The labels have no effect on reality, but for want of better words, they have an effect on my version of reality.
They affect your *thoughts,* the story you tell about things. Nothing more.

This is the same as thoughts about a "self," which cannot be found in Direct Experience.

Loving,

----end of copy----

[jrm72]

er that didn't work.

[jrm72]

reposting in this thread so I can access this message easier -


Tomorrow for that is fine.
The labels have no effect on reality, but for want of better words, they have an effect on my version of reality.
They affect your *thoughts,* the story you tell about things. Nothing more.

This is the same as thoughts about a "self," which cannot be found in Direct Experience.

Loving,

[jrm72]

Well that didn't work either.

I shall just move on to doing the next exercise.

[jrm72]

Stacy,

Apologies for my problems with reposting, I think I've got it sorted now.


Labels -

They affect your *thoughts,* the story you tell about things. Nothing more.

This is the same as thoughts about a "self," which cannot be found in Direct Experience.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

I get all this intellectually, but again for want of better words, it doesn't feel real to me.

-----

Now onto the truth and lies exercise -

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Sadly yes.

Argument with wife, me lying just to win.

What is found

?


Tightness in the head, around temples, and lower chest, moving to upper chest.
As I read through the exercise, the lies about 1+1=14 and worms, gave me the sensation of a tightening of the throat.
So maybe a less personal lie gives me a different sensation.

Do you see that?

(that the interpretation is not the sensation)

Yes



J🖖

[Anastacia42]

Good enough. Check your gut feeling as well. That is most likely tight, too.

Now you don't have to believe me that this indicates a lie. Keep checking it for yourself until you're certain.

Here's a pointer that should bring some of this together.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[jrm72]

What is known for sure?

Ok, only direct experiences can be known for sure, and maybe even then there's doubt, for what I see and call red, someone else may see as dark orange, or a colour blind person as a shade of grey.
Also when I feel emotional pain (or joy etc) they feel pretty real and I feel sure about them when they're happening.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Content of thought is correct only if it can be confirmed by direct experience. So most of the content of my thoughts is unconfirmable.
But the content of thought currently feels real to me.
Not thinking and not aligning myself with the content of my thought feels like asking myself not to breathe. I can do it for a short time, but then it starts happening again automatically. I want to be able to do this, but currently feel like I can't do the impossible.
Even at times when my mind is clear and free of obvious thoughts, I can still sense thoughts bubbling under the surface, not quite breaking into my full awareness. So my guess is that these semi-hidden thoughts are affecting me, even though I don't know their contents.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

I've just taken a bite out of the real apple I have here.
So there's definitely something here for me in direct experience, the visual stimuli, the tactile feel in my hands and mouth, the taste, the sound of me chewing on the contents felt in my mouth. The smell of the residue on my hands.
I know I label this whole experience through thought as "me eating an apple" and if I strip away the label and also strip away the words that I use to describe my direct experience, then what I am left with is the direct experience, with no way to describe it to myself or others.
But my brain is telling me here - What else but apart from "eating an apple" can this be?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No, the label apple can't (but I really want to say yes).

However, is an apple actually known?

The map is not the territory
The menu is not the meal
So -
The label is not the thing.

Something is known, but how do I say what it us?

How do I get to experience experience, rather than experiencing whatever it is I'm currently doing (experiencing my thoughts for want of a better description)?




I have no intention of giving up or backing away from this journey, but it's so hard in the sense that I can't see how to get where I'd like to be.

J🖖

[Anastacia42]

Good morning/afternoon, James.,

Relax. What you're looking for is already here. You can't find it in thinking, only in Direct Experience.

Emotions are only Sensation plus a label & a story. Notice that only the Sensations are DE.The rest is made up. The Work of Byron Katie is great for seeing through those.

www.thework.com

Thoughts will not stop. That's not the goal. You will simply see through them & not believe their content.

Being made up stories, it can be said that no thought content is true.

The map is not the territory
The menu is not the meal
So -
The label is not the thing.

Exactly!

Something is known, but how do I say what it us?

The same way you always have, but with the awareness that it's all made up.

Shakespeare got it,

"All the world's a stage and men & women merely players."

Did you see "The Matrix?"

https://youtu.be/uAXtO5dMqEI

Okay have you got all of that? Ready to LOOK? Philosophical discussion won't do it.

It is about LOOKING, not how you answer questions.

This is the only pointer I was given when I was guided here. I practiced this for about 3 months. I call it:

ButtChair

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

Loving,

[jrm72]

Relax. What you're looking for is already here. You can't find it in thinking, only in Direct Experience.

Emotions are only Sensation plus a label & a story.

only the Sensations are DE.The rest is made up.

Something is known, but how do I say what it us?
The same way you always have, but with the awareness that it's all made up.

Thank you for these words.




I will listen to and read Katie Byron's stuff.

Did you see "The Matrix?"

Yes, love it, but never thought about it from this perspective before.

Okay have you got all of that?

Yes

Ready to LOOK? Philosophical discussion won't do it.

Yes

It is about LOOKING, not how you answer questions.

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just LOOK.

Then write what is true.

I will LOOK and then get back to you?


🖖

[Anastacia42]

Good.

and it is Byron Katie Reid. She goes by "Katie."

Loving,

[jrm72]

Hello Stacy,

I said I'd post everyday, so here I am, with no idea what to say.

I've been "looking" and feel like I've failed miserably. My looking feels vague and insubstantial, like I'm missing things or I'm not "seeing" what is there.

I physically feel my butt in contact with the cushion beneath it and my thighs against the front edge of the chair. I feel the pressure of my knee against the table leg, my finger tapping on the screen as I type this, my teeth clenching. All amongst a long list of other physical sensations, even before I get to sounds, sights etc.
As too the separation, or not, of my butt and the chair (and all the other physical sensations) - The investigation is still ongoing.

One thing I've noticed about my thoughts is that some thoughts come up and then I feel bad about the content of that thought. But there are other thought where the only content seems to be the sensation of feeling (to put it bluntly) shitty. The thought doesn't doesn't appear to contain any other content (ie; memories of a bad experience or interaction, remembering a sad or traumatic event, etc) the only content seems to be "feel shitty".

😔

[Anastacia42]

Hi

"Feel shitty" is probably a form of the lie feeling. Katie says, "if it hurts, you're lying."

While it did mention Sensation, ButtChair is mostly about LOOKING. Yes, I I know, you you, see back there. LOOK in your mind's eye. Yes, FEEL.

There's only one Sensation.

Like I said, I did nothing but this for 4 months. Don't worry about it.

Relax.

What you're LOOKING for is already here.

No effort is necessary. Just see.

Loving,

[jrm72]

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.
Is there any clear dividing line between them?

No

Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

Yes

It is simple direct & nonverbal.
Then write what is true.

Looked and found no obvious distinction between body and whatever it is in contact with.

This mind still holds the rigid belief of self and separation, with associated justifications to bolster its position.
The sense of self still steadfastly refuses to budge.

The truth of Direct Experience is different to the truth of this mind/self and currently the truth of the self is winning by knockout.

🖖

[Anastacia42]

"Argue for your limitations & sure enough, they're yours."

Richard Bach, Illusions

Open your mind. Show some curiosity about what we're talking about here.

Have you read any of "Gateless Gatecrashers?"

I'd like for you to read it. You can download it from Resources, Books here on this site.

Read to notice where each client had a shift & SAW. Write daily here what you are noticing.

Loving,