can’t seem to go any deeper …

[warissem]

Hi Aletheia

I really resonate with this compassionate approach. To answer your question, I feel that behind the fear is a belief in a loss of control, as if everything will become chaotic and I/this body will die.

There is no you to lose control at the first place and everything will be as it is meant to be. Look at a new born baby, it behaves without knowing its name.

There is also a sense of grief, if that makes sense? As in, if it’s true that the self doesn’t exist, then it’s like mourning for something that was never there. I don’t know if this is a strange response.

Look at this sense of grief : is it a thought or a sensation? If it is a sensation, where is it located in the body? Look at it and welcome the energy.

I suppose I have put so much work and effort and striving into trying my best to protect, heal, and take care of this ‘me’ for many, many years, that if it doesn’t exist, there is a sadness that arises.

Look at this “I” which is striving … to protect this “me” : is there an “I” protecting a “me” ?

Everything else you say I will continue to keep in mind and ask “is there a me doing it?” I will report back later.

Waiting for your insights.

[Aletheia]

Hi Warissem,

I have this sense , and I’ve had it before but never had it validated, that things just happen in an impersonal way. I even wrote on a sticky note a few months back, “thoughts and feelings are impersonal” and put it on my mirror to remember — you seem to be validating this reflection of mine, am I correct? Not only that, but every movement of my body is also impersonal. It’s not like I choose to make any movement however big or small happen from a calculated conscious place. It just happens of its own accord, and then “I” take ownership of it, it seems. I can get this intellectually.

The grief is a feeling that arises in my heart and throat area, and no thought seems to be attached to it, but it was a brief occurrence. Excitement also comes at the prospect that there was never a me, never is a me, and never will be! So it’s a mixed bag of emotions.

Look at this “I” which is striving … to protect this “me” : is there an “I” protecting a “me” ?

When I look, I get blankness. Nothing. I can’t find or locate it. Maybe a memory comes up but I realise it’s just a thought. I do have a felt sense of a “me” though, that isn’t necessarily thought based, but is more a sensation of a contraction of energy. What to do with that “me-ness” felt sense?

[warissem]

Good evening

I have this sense , and I’ve had it before but never had it validated, that things just happen in an impersonal way. I even wrote on a sticky note a few months back, “thoughts and feelings are impersonal” and put it on my mirror to remember — you seem to be validating this reflection of mine, am I correct? Not only that, but every movement of my body is also impersonal. It’s not like I choose to make any movement however big or small happen from a calculated conscious place. It just happens of its own accord, and then “I” take ownership of it, it seems. I can get this intellectually.

Yes, it is right on the middle. Is it just an understanding or an insight?

The grief is a feeling that arises in my heart and throat area, and no thought seems to be attached to it, but it was a brief occurrence. Excitement also comes at the prospect that there was never a me, never is a me, and never will be! So it’s a mixed bag of emotions.

A feeling is a sensation + a thought. Look at the sensations without putting a label on them. Try to discriminate between direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching, sensations) and labels, thoughts, stories, expectations, judgements, …

When I look, I get blankness. Nothing. I can’t find or locate it.

Yes, how do you feel to see this?

Maybe a memory comes up but I realise it’s just a thought. I do have a felt sense of a “me” though, that isn’t necessarily thought based, but is more a sensation of a contraction of energy. What to do with that “me-ness” felt sense?

Yes, there could be a sense of me and you know it is only a thought + sensations. There is a practice about the sense of me.

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Best for you

[Aletheia]

Yes, it is right on the middle. Is it just an understanding or an insight?

When I first realised it, it seemed to be an insight because I had a shift in perspective, it wasn’t just mental. But through time it has become more mental, although I try to remember and practice that recognition that all thoughts and feelings are impersonal. That is easy for me to see, and sometimes more deeply tune into.

Yes, how do you feel to see this?

Don’t feel much at all, there’s just a sense that when I look for the I and get nothing/blankness, that’s just what’s happening.

Thank you also for the coat and keys analogy, I will reflect on this, or I guess, reflection will happen (or not)!

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

The sense of self seems to be located in my head region, although when I look in the mirror it seems to extend to the body too.

The shape/size seems to be the size of my body although usually it has no shape or size.

The sense of self seems to communicate through inner images, sounds, memories, etc.

Characteristics/attributes that compose the sense of self are physical and personality traits.

And when I look at what the sense of self is made of.c it seems to be composed of a physical image of my face, various memories of “things I’ve done”, my name, and the sound of my voice.

Whenever I talk, interact with others, or have to play a role in the world, the sense of self is the strongest. And it’s the weakest when I am in solitude or in nature.

I will continue to try to deeply explore what this me-ness is composed of. Realizing that I’m not my thoughts or feelings, and they’re totally impersonal, seems to be quite helpful for me as it points to something deeper.

Thank you for your help Warissem 👁️

[warissem]

Good morning Aletheia

When I first realised it, it seemed to be an insight because I had a shift in perspective, it wasn’t just mental.

Great.

But through time it has become more mental, although I try to remember and practice that recognition that all thoughts and feelings are impersonal. That is easy for me to see, and sometimes more deeply tune into.

Is what is aware of these words a thought? A sensation?

Don’t feel much at all, there’s just a sense that when I look for the I and get nothing/blankness, that’s just what’s happening.

yes, it is what is happening. Is there something that you do ? or everything is just happening : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling sensations, speaking, thinking, seeking for truth, eating, walking, answering to the questions here, …?

About the answers to the questions about the sense of self : do you see that the answers are given through the accumulated knowledge?
You need to go back to the exercise and practice it again. Each question is a pointer to look at in direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations.

A thought is no more than a thought.
A sensation is no more than a sensation.

Thank you for your help Warissem

You are much welcome.

[Aletheia]

Morning Warissem,

Is what is aware of these words a thought? A sensation?

Neither - just a space, to me it feels like an inner void that is empty but full.

yes, it is what is happening. Is there something that you do ? or everything is just happening : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling sensations, speaking, thinking, seeking for truth, eating, walking, answering to the questions here, …?

I’m not sure I understand this question correctly, but it does feel like there’s some effort on the part of “me” to go looking for the me. But when I look, nothing can be found except for thought, which also produces feelings and sensations in the body.

You need to go back to the exercise and practice it again. Each question is a pointer to look at in direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations.

I have sincerely tried to practice this past day. I want to share with you some of what I has been done and some reflections:

- Exploring what is directly experienced when saying “I, me, my, mine,” and my name. What arises are thoughts, memories, images, etc., but nothing outside of that.

- Looking at the face/body in the mirror without a label - dropping any mental belief, memory, whatever, and just looking without a concept. A kind of “empty looking” could be felt.

- Remembering that I believed so strongly in an idea of “God” (in the biblical sense) growing up. But then realising that the whole thing was a lie — and applying the same reflection and example to the strongly believed idea of a “me.”

- Discovering that I have some beliefs surrounding “waking up out of the dream of self” for example:
- it has to take lifetimes or you must have meditated for your entire life intensely (for 2-4 hours a day) to “get it”
- you have to be a special or lucky person to wake up
- only super spiritual people who have done heaps of retreats, satsangs, etc., can wake up
- when you wake up, it will feel really dramatic, intense, or scary
- your “self” will be irretrievably taken away and you won’t be able to function properly or take care of yourself (like Ramana Maharshi for example who had rodents eating from his flesh and he had to be fed by others)

The last one particularly irks me. Fear and doubt arise. Yet when I keep turning toward trying to find the “me,” nothing solid can be found. Sometimes a space opens and there is a glimpse.

Any comments?

Warm thanks 🪞

[warissem]

Good morning

Neither - just a space, to me it feels like an inner void that is empty but full.

Yes, a space full of presence. Is there really a you there?

I’m not sure I understand this question correctly, but it does feel like there’s some effort on the part of “me” to go looking for the me.

Can you describe the first “me” and the second me ?

But when I look, nothing can be found except for thought, which also produces feelings and sensations in the body.

Yes, me, you are only thoughts. I do point for you that a feeling is a sensation + thought. Now, in direct experience, is there a link between sensations and thoughts?

I have sincerely tried to practice this past day. I want to share with you some of what I has been done and some reflections.

Yes, it is sufficient to see that

“I, me, my, mine,” and my name are thoughts, memories, images, etc., but nothing outside of that.

It is not necessary to dismantle the beliefs one after another. It is sufficient to see that there is no you at the first place, no Aletheia managing nor living life. Life is living itself as Aletheia, do you see that?

The last one particularly irks me. Fear and doubt arise. Yet when I keep turning toward trying to find the “me,” nothing solid can be found. Sometimes a space opens and there is a glimpse.

When you look, you find nothing : how many times do you have to look to see that there is no tiger under your bed?

Any comments?

You are doing a great job, don’t go to thoughts, just Be here : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. There is a field of this five senses here and there is knowing of this field.
Is the knowing of the field separate from the field ?
Is the knowing of “what is seen” separate from “what is seen” ?

Warm thanks

Much welcome

[Aletheia]

Afternoon Warissem,

Can you describe the first “me” and the second me ?

I can see from this that I’ve been mistaken, thinking that “I” have to go searching for a “me” which is somehow different from the very “me” that is starting the search to begin with. They’re one and the same.

I do point for you that a feeling is a sensation + thought. Now, in direct experience, is there a link between sensations and thoughts?

I sense there’s a difference between feelings and emotions. Feelings I see as sensations as they are instinctual, like a dog wagging it’s tail happily, emotions on the other hand are different from feelings in that they are based in thought. This is how I see/experience it. Feelings arise as sensations in the body, but they are totally spontaneous and not due to thought. For example, a monkey getting angry at another monkey for stealing its banana: the monkey likely didn’t think “what a bozo, he stole my banana!” it was just instinctual. So to me, emotions are mind-based, but feelings are instinct based.

It is sufficient to see that there is no you at the first place, no Aletheia managing nor living life. Life is living itself as Aletheia, do you see that?

So “I” am really life itself, identified with a name and identity. I can see this, yes. I experience moments of this, as just things happening, without anyone to claim it. It’s very ordinary.

Today I have been practicing noticing when the sense of Aletheia comes up. The moment attention is turned towards that sense, it vanishes, and it’s as if a cloudy sky has cleared. Though it comes only through practice, not a sudden once-and-for-all bang or pop.

You are doing a great job, don’t go to thoughts, just Be here : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. There is a field of this five senses here and there is knowing of this field.
Is the knowing of the field separate from the field ?
Is the knowing of “what is seen” separate from “what is seen” ?

Thank you.
So really, mindfulness, being here now, attention to the present moment, is the best approach, the most important focus. Is this correct?

As for the last two questions, they are a bit confusing. Can you explain?

Gratitude 🐒

[warissem]

Hi Aletheia

I can see from this that I’ve been mistaken, thinking that “I” have to go searching for a “me” which is somehow different from the very “me” that is starting the search to begin with. They’re one and the same.

Yes, great.

I sense there’s a difference between feelings and emotions. Feelings I see as sensations as they are instinctual, like a dog wagging it’s tail happily, emotions on the other hand are different from feelings in that they are based in thought. This is how I see/experience it. Feelings arise as sensations in the body, but they are totally spontaneous and not due to thought. For example, a monkey getting angry at another monkey for stealing its banana: the monkey likely didn’t think “what a bozo, he stole my banana!” it was just instinctual. So to me, emotions are mind-based, but feelings are instinct based.

Continue to observe feelings and emotions and find the answers for yourself.

So “I” am really life itself, identified with a name and identity. I can see this, yes. I experience moments of this, as just things happening, without anyone to claim it. It’s very ordinary.

Is there still seeking happening ?
If so, what is missing?

Today I have been practicing noticing when the sense of Aletheia comes up. The moment attention is turned towards that sense, it vanishes, and it’s as if a cloudy sky has cleared. Though it comes only through practice, not a sudden once-and-for-all bang or pop.

This process is not the end but a beginning of a new perspective of seeing what is going on here now.

Thank you.
So really, mindfulness, being here now, attention to the present moment, is the best approach, the most important focus. Is this correct?

Yes, the clue is to look at direct experience, what is here now.

Is the knowing of the field separate from the field ?
Is the knowing of “what is seen” separate from “what is seen” ?

As for the last two questions, they are a bit confusing. Can you explain?

In the 2 questions, knowing = being aware.
Example : Is” what is seen” (an object, an animal, …) separate from the knowing of it?

Look at the questions and the answers must be given through direct experience.

Best wishes

[Aletheia]

Afternoon Warissem,

Is there still seeking happening ?
If so, what is missing?

Nothing is missing in reality, it’s just the seeking energy that thinks it needs to grab something. But even the seeking energy is impersonal.

In the 2 questions, knowing = being aware.
Example : Is” what is seen” (an object, an animal, …) separate from the knowing of it?

Look at the questions and the answers must be given through direct experience.

There is no separation when life is seen without the labels of the mind - there’s just what’s happening in the immediacy, light, sound, color, texture, pressure. This is what I experienced when looking at the world with no labels. There is just this, and no one to claim it.

***

I have a question if you don’t mind Warissem. There is an impulse in “my” mind to notice whenever the sense of self, the sense of Aletheia arises, and then to notice it as a thought. Is this the process you’re directing me to? Is this “correct” I guess you could say? There is a desire to absolutely and irrevocably see that the self has never existed whatsoever. I know, sense, smell, taste this truth, but there’s an expectation for things to feel very different. There are experiential glimpses of this reality, but it’s so subtle, and then the mind gets lazy or distracted, then falls back into identification. Is this something to be “practiced” even if there is no practicer in reality? Please point out if I am deluded in any way.

Thank you 🌊

[warissem]

Good morning

Nothing is missing in reality,

Good.

it’s just the seeking energy that thinks it needs to grab something. But even the seeking energy is impersonal.

Do you see that this answer is not coming through direct experience ?
Can an energy think?

There is no separation when life is seen without the labels of the mind - there’s just what’s happening in the immediacy, light, sound, color, texture, pressure. This is what I experienced when looking at the world with no labels. There is just this, and no one to claim it.

Great, so simple.

I have a question if you don’t mind Warissem. There is an impulse in “my” mind to notice whenever the sense of self, the sense of Aletheia arises, and then to notice it as a thought. Is this the process you’re directing me to? Is this “correct” I guess you could say?

It is safe to do what is coming up, don’t make too much effort. Seeing that there is no you, no separate self is like seeing that there is no tiger under your bed. Don’t expect a great change. It is just a new perspective of looking at what is here now. I invite you to give faith to this LU process : looking at the questions and giving the answers through direct experience. Now, about the sense of self, it will continue to arise but you know for sure that it is a thought or a sensation or both.

There is a desire to absolutely and irrevocably see that the self has never existed whatsoever. I know, sense, smell, taste this truth, but there’s an expectation for thu, no separateings to feel very different. There are experiential glimpses of this reality, but it’s so subtle, and then the mind gets lazy or distracted, then falls back into identification. Is this something to be “practiced” even if there is no practicer in reality? Please point out if I am deluded in any way.

What has to be practiced is what is going on here during our dialog. It seems that there is an urge to go through this process. Just relax, you are already what you are. There is no separate self, there never was, it will never be.

I invite you to do this investigation about thoughts. Give a separate answer to each question. Elaborate on the answers.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Thank you

Much welcome

[Aletheia]

Afternoon Warissem,

Do you see that this answer is not coming through direct experience ?
Can an energy think?

No, an energy can’t think. Perhaps more so it is the seeking thought-patterns rather than energy. The thought that “I need to find something.” It’s not an energy as you say, but a thought.

It is safe to do what is coming up, don’t make too much effort. Seeing that there is no you, no separate self is like seeing that there is no tiger under your bed. Don’t expect a great change. It is just a new perspective of looking at what is here now. I invite you to give faith to this LU process : looking at the questions and giving the answers through direct experience. Now, about the sense of self, it will continue to arise but you know for sure that it is a thought or a sensation or both.

Thank you for clarifying this. The expectation of a big change seems to be a blockage in the form of an expectation here. So many describe the shift as big, extreme, blissful, or even scary. But why can’t it also be ordinary? Simple? It almost seems hard to believe, but I know that belief isn’t helpful here, direct experience is.

When you say don’t make too much effort, what do you mean by this?

I invite you to do this investigation about thoughts. Give a separate answer to each question. Elaborate on the answers.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

I will try this tomorrow and get back to you with answers.

Gratitude 🪷

[warissem]

Good morning

When you say don’t make too much effort, what do you mean by this?

It means : don't lean on thoughts. Relax and focus on direct experience. Discriminate between thoughts and "what is".

Waiting for your insights about thoughts.

Best wishes.

[Aletheia]

Good morning Warissem,

An answer to your earlier questions:

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

- Thoughts just arise spontaneously out of the blue. There is no one making the thoughts arise.
- I didn’t do anything to make any particular thought or thoughts arise.
- I couldn’t have done anything to make a different thought appear in that exact moment instead.
- No I couldn’t predict the next thought. Even if I thought I could, the very thought of thinking that I could came spontaneously out of nowhere.
- No, I can’t only have pleasant thoughts. Even if I think I can have only pleasant thoughts, the original impulse to have them is spontaneous, and they don’t last. I don’t choose any of them because they’re totally random.
- No I can’t choose to not have painful thoughts. It’s the same as above: even if I think I can, that impulse itself is spontaneous and comes and goes without any doing on my part.
- No I can’t pick and choose any kind of thought. Even the idea of, for example, using and choosing positive affirmations arises initially in a totally spontaneous way, and fades just as randomly.
- No it’s not possible to prevent a thought from appearing.

Some other reflections:

The sense of “me” tries to claim consciousness/awareness - that’s what was noticed in meditation. It thinks “if I shine MY consciousness onto this thought, then I can be free from it.” But I can see the fundamental error in perception there, in claiming consciousness.

I also noticed more clearly how the sense of me-ness or “I” is a filter, a lens, or even like a layer of virtual reality over life. Yet the awareness of it comes and goes through the day, resulting in the I saying, “I’m not doing well enough, I’m failing at this.” But then your words about relaxing come up.

The sense of self I noticed arises as a thought typically, then followed by an emotion or sensation. It can be so tricky to pin down because it’s an amalgamation of many things, a deeply ingrained pattern.

I welcome any reflections you have on this.

With thanks

[warissem]

Good morning Aletheia

You have done a great job of looking at thoughts. It is helpful to see that : when a thought is seen (or known) it has already arisen.

Are you a thinker ? Is there a thinker ?

Is a sense of self (which is a thought and/or a sensation) a thinker?

That is all for now, I will come back with comments on what you said about the sense of self.

Best wishes