Awakening from the Victim Concept

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Here are my lists:

With 'I':
I am worried
I am anxious
I am thinking
I am sitting on an office chair
I hear birds chirping
I am feeling slightly euphoric
I am sitting in my bedroom
I am writing
I am looking at a computer screen
I am breathing
I am slouching
I am feeling stressed
I am feeling depressed
I am feeling defeated
I am hearing an AC unit whir
I am hearing a frequency play from my phone
I am feeling itching on my ankles
I am hearing someone moving around the apartment complex
I am feeling restless
I am looking at the clock
I am looking at this piece of paper
I am blinking
I am worrying
I am contracting my ab muscles
I am thinking
I have an itch on my nose
I am looking at the book and headphones on my desk
I am worrying about the future
I am feeling angry and irritated
I am hearing a drum snare
I am feeling dissatisfied
I am feeling my clothes on my skin
I am feeling an itch on my neck
I am feeling an itch on my calf
I am feeling a light throb in my belly
I am feeling an itch on my back
I am thinking
I am feeling an itch on my left arm

**I realize I shouldn't have labeled emotions in this exercise like 'anger' or 'euphoria' but did anyway for some reason.

Without 'I':
Sitting on a chair
Sitting in a room
Writing on this paper
Scratching my jaw
Hearing a frequency tone from my phone
Feeling an itch on my head
Feeling the right hand on the paper
Hearing a scooter drive by
Thinking
Looking at a book on my desk
Feeling the neck crack
Hearing the neck crack
Hearing birds outside
Seeing digits change on the computer screen
Feeling an itch in my nose
Hearing vehicles drive
Hearing the AC unit whir
Feeling light sensations in the belly
Thinking about life
Moving the paper with my hand
Moving my body as I write
Feeling an itch on my foot
Drinking my tea
Scrunching my nose
Relaxing the belly
Hearing the tram
Feeling an itch on the foot
Feeling the butt on the chair
Feeling the swallowing
Hearing a car
Hearing vibrations
Itching the arm
Feeling an itch in the nose
Hearing something moving in the apartment
Feeling the office chair swivel
Seeing the book
Feeling the itch on the back
Hearing a person speak outside
Itching the neck/head
Putting the fist on the desk
Thinking
Feeling a tingle on the back of the head
Scratching the back
Feeling the shoulders
Sniffing the nose
Watching the countdown on the computer

**Here I should not have used the possessive word 'my' and crossed them out halfway through the exercise. Replacing them with the word 'the' or whatever seemed appropriate.

Let me know what to do next!

Much Love

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Okay, mostly good. You're clear on everything but this:

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
They affect the experience! Labels make a filter of reality. Ultimately I think labels don't really affect the experience but that doesn't seem to be clear yet.

Try this pointer:

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?
[/color]

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Here are my answers:

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Seeing a word that is red or image/color.

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

The red color is "experienced".

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Labels do not have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality".

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Labels suggest something other than what is actually here and now.

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

Green is just a word label on the experience of the red color.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

The redness is unaffected by a change in labels. The actual experience is an image/color red. The experience is not what the label suggests.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?
[/color]

The redness does not become "good" or "bad". The labels have no affect on the actual experience of 'reality'.


I gather that we are exploring whether labels have a one-to-one correspondence to "reality" and that the definition of "reality" (actual experiencing) here does not include thought or imagination. At least for the purpose of this exercise. Does this mean that imagining the color 'green' when reading it as ‘GREEN’ is not an actual experience or part of "reality"? My sense is that thoughts are not "reality" if labels cannot represent reality one-to-one and thoughts are just labels, even if they are images. This means that all thoughts are simply the same experience. Just as the experience of red doesn't change because of a label, the experience of thought doesn't change because of its formulation. Is this correct? It's not totally clear.

I could just be writing my mind nonsense lol.

Thank you for these exercises! I enjoy them! It's like a scientific experiment or a math proof but for liberation! Amazing!

Kind Regards,

Brian Cassee

[Anastacia42]

Yes, exactly.

Ultimately I think labels don't really affect the experience but that doesn't seem to be clear yet.

Correct. Is that clear now?

Let's do one more to take it a step farther.


Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Let me know what is found.

Labeling the day, the Sensations, etc. does nothing to reduce their beauty or joy, but can hide them from our awareness.

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Here are my answers:

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

There is a difference in the value placed on each thought.

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

It's just a difference in the content of the thoughts which seems to cause one to be valued over the other. But, I suppose the value placed on a thought is just more thought content. So, the only difference is indeed content.

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

The difference between the "me" thought and "friend" thought seems to be content of thought. The main difference the mind tries to bring up is the bodily sensations and perceptions associated with "me" which is just more thought. Thought about how those sensations and perceptions are part of the "me" thought. But, I have to conclude that the only difference is content in thought.

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

The "me-character" seems to have those body, perception and sensation thoughts associated with it that differentiate it as stated above. However, they are only associated with the "me-character" through thought. So, the content of the "me-character" thought seems to include the actual experience of this moment: color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. That is the main difference. But that association between the "me-character" and the 'actual experiencing' of this moment is only thought. Since the 'actual experiencing' seems to have an experiential quality and the "me-character" does not... it seems logical to conclude there is no proof of a "me-character" but only actual experiencing which includes thought. This triggers some fear. Am I wrong and overly hasty to conclude this so soon? No idea if you want me to answer these questions more succinctly. Let me know.


Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

You've got it.

All content of thought, yes.

The other point is that labels don't affect anything.

Now let's look at the illusion of control.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

How is the movement controlled?

I cannot find any method used to control the movement.

Does a thought control it?

Thought doesn't seem to control movement. The movement happens before any thought and the thought comes after. The movement is seemingly too quick for thought to dictate anything about it. If there is a thought that controls it, it's out of awareness.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

There is a thought of a 'me' that wants to take ownership of the movement. But, it is clear that what claims control doesn't have any real control over the movement.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Spontaneously... out of nowhere. I'm stumped... I can't figure out the origin of the decision at all.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

I can't find anyone that chose which hand to raise for the exercise. The decision is made before the thought.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No, I can't find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down. It seems to be a spontaneous movement. An example is that I can think "stop" but keep turning the palm. The thought "stop" doesn't do anything. So the decision is not made by thought. The thought of an 'entity' does arise... but it claims control through thought and is itself a thought. Sometimes it isn't even there when I'm moving the palm!


What I felt with this exercise was some resistance and irritation. Something feels frustrated that everything is out of its control.

That's all I got for now!

Much Love,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

You're doing great, Brian.

What I felt with this exercise was some resistance and irritation. Something feels frustrated that everything is out of its control.

See if this one helps with that:


Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where "Brian" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'Brian' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

As always, relax & have fun!

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for the kind words! It did help!

Here are my answers:

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

The stream does not choose its directions, that's just a product of the natural flow. It is not a separate entity from all its parts; the water, rocks, depressions in the ground, soil etc. It is therefore made out of its parts and processes but does not exist as a separate entity. Rather, it is a result of everything coming together but does not exist unless we label it. It is not the same entity moment by moment because there is no controlling part to it but is simply the result of the conditions that created its appearance like weather, water, earth etc. It can change completely and has no "essence" that separates it from all the patterns it exhibits and that change. It can't even be said that we can be referring to an 'it'. 'It" is ever-changing and has no separateness except for the label(s) given 'it'.

1. Can you find anywhere where "Brian" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

There is no autonomous intervening because any choice is simply the result of all the conditions of life. Life has always been the product of all the elements! There is no 'part' that can choose apart from the overall flow or has control over the flow. This includes the I-thought which has been the result of the overall flow and conditions of life. It is all part of the overall flow without any control.

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

If I consider my persistent habit of going to bed late and waking up late I can see that it is my preference to have pleasure which seems to be staying up and playing video games, watching shows or browsing. It seems like it is painful to forego immediate gratification and go to bed. In fact, I seem to think the rest of my life will be responsibilities, sacrifice and tough choices if I go to bed early (lol). I also believe on some level that I have already messed up so it doesn't matter if I do it again. What is happening here is conditioning based on life experiences, upbringing, psychological "deviations", conclusions about non-existent future events, thoughts based on past thoughts, identification with victimhood happening. There is a choice to stay with a comfortable and familiar pattern. There is the deeper psychological factors going on like maybe trying to piss off my mom about how I'm doing in life and where I'm going contributing to this choice. All that comes from past conditions upon conditions and events going exactly the way they did. Many of these factors can be categorized as thought, then there is the passing of time during the night, and activities such as video games or watching youtube happening. There is the movement of the body, the resistance to emotions/sensations. All these and many more contribute to the activity of "going to bed to late" and "seeking". There is the sense or belief in a separate entity going through these motions and labeling sensations as 'guilt' for doing so. There are many thoughts around the activity, many conclusions about it, many conditions contributing to it. Each one helps to make "Brian" perform this choice. Each factor has a part to play for the "Brian" river to flow in this way with this particular choice. There does not seem to be any part here that is the ultimate decider of seemingly one choice. In fact there can't even really be said to be a 'choice' separate from the flow or a 'Brian' that is separate from the whole scene that is played out. It is just like the river! Just the flow as a result of all the parts and conditions having taken place. The appearance of a 'Brian' as a body is one of those parts to make the flow happen. 'Brian' is one of the parts to make the flow of life or the 'going to bed late' happen. It is not that 'Brian' is going to bed late but life is using Brian to create this flow!

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

I cannot find an autonomous entity that makes the choices but only the thought of an entity which is part of the flow of conditions happening but nothing more.

3. Can anything be found for which 'Brian' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

There is guilt for many of my choices. But, when I break it down this is simply sensation and thoughts. Guilt seemingly comes from the choices made and believing 'I' am responsible for them. Which is just thought. It seems the choices are made as a result of the flow of life and the conditions it brings about. There are almost infinite conditions making 'this' happen. When I look for someone to be guilty of actions and thoughts separate from all the conditions that create this flow... he cannot be found. The only evidence seems to be an image/color that resembles a body but the body is just another part out of many parts and conditions. The other piece of evidence the mind wants to bring forward is the combination of thought and sensation that gives the sense of an entity named 'Brian'. But, this too is made of thoughts, sensations, and too many conditions to count. That notion of an entity is also constantly changing and often disappears. It is also being observed and not the observer. There is simply no evidence for it. There is no 'Brian' responsible for anything! I have to conclude that what is observing is 'I', not all the changing conditions being observed. Is there such a thing as an observing sense of 'I'?

All I know is that I really can't find the decision-maker. It's starting to feel like there is no hope of a better life if this is true. Like 'I' can't fix myself or get it right or do anything to change. Maybe I can just relax and surrender. Maybe it's life's problem! I don't know what to do here. Slight fear and trepidation. Going to relax into 'it' best I can.

Thanks for everything! Let me know!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Hi Brian,

While you're right, your answers only come from your thinking. Give simple answers based in LOOKING, not on thought!

Remember...

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..
7b0f6f0b39c53726ab54e74577464857&start
Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

There is the deeper psychological factors going on like maybe trying to piss off my mom about how I'm doing in life and where I'm going contributing to this choice. All that comes from past conditions upon conditions and events going exactly the way they did. Many of these factors can be categorized as thought, then there is the passing of time during the night, and activities such as video games or watching youtube happening.

ALL of this is only thought. This is not therapy. Please. Sympathy for all of that, but it isn't relevant to the exercise, okay?

If you have thoughts that need to be questioned, I recommend The Work of Byron Katie www.thework.com or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

Are you okay to continue? With LOOKING?


Much love,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Yes, I'm good to continue with looking. The reason I brought up this victim story is because I hoped to see through it with this exercise. No sympathy required for the victim identity lol.

I promise to keep it simple and straightforward. Let me know what to do next.

Best,

Brian

[GoBro]

To answer directly:

Are you okay to continue? With LOOKING?

I'm okay to continue with LOOKING.

[Anastacia42]

Have I asked you to watch this? Please do - Twice!

https://youtu.be/gaMpVeR6PUc

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I'm watching it now!

Best,

Brian

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

Let me know what the next step is if you feel to!

Kind Regards,

Brian