Looking for a guide

[okjose]

Hi Henri, thanks. Yes having another look it's very simple, Apple is just a label and that's it. It could never be the actual.

[Bluejay]

Okay, great :)

Now applying all of the above to the so called self:

Explore ‘Sense of Self'

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there.

You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this sense of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by feeling it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

[okjose]

Does the sense of self have a location?

Generally where my body is and specifically like a line from the middle of my head to my heart area

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Vaguely like the size of my brain that connected down to my heart

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No it’s just something I can look at or feel

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

I’m realising that without thought I’m just looking at a sensation

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Without thought the sense of self refers to a sensation in my body but with thought it includes the voice in my head and an image I have of myself and at times the body but that in itself is just sensation and image / colour

What is found?

All that is found is sensation and thought/imagination. But if my sense of self were like the keys I'd have to say I don't find it.

[Bluejay]

Yup, yup, so let's have a deeper look in the body...

Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

And in your case, Jose:

Generally where my body is and specifically like a line from the middle of my head to my heart area. Vaguely like the size of my brain that connected down to my heart.

What does this refer to? What is the direct experience?

I know you already said, but it helps to repeat it, to rest in it.

Look very carefully, especially with the question on the 'body'.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, eating, etc) before replying.

[okjose]

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

I can’t tell how tall the body is. Weight seems to be a thought process so there are denser sensations where the body makes contact with the seat but not weight more like the sensation is floating. There is no defined boundary to the sensation of the body so there’s no set volume.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No I can’t find a definite boundary, it feels like the body has merged with the bed I’m sitting on, same with clothes. Also with my legs one on top of the other it just feels like one mass / one leg.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

With my eyes closed I can observe it all so there is no inside or outside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to? What is the direct experience of the body?

The label refers to a thought image of a fragile body that needs protecting. The direct experience is like a floating mass or blob of sensation.

And in your case, Jose:
Generally where my body is and specifically like a line from the middle of my head to my heart area. Vaguely like the size of my brain that connected down to my heart.

What does this refer to? What is the direct experience?

This refers to a dense cluster of sensations but It’s hollow or like a dense cloud you could pass your hand through. Nothing to grasp. I can see or feel through it. It then moves to be the outline of my body but this is just an idea/thought and more sensation. The direct experience is just morphing sensation I can keep looking through. I then remember the lost keys analogy. Then I start looking for what's looking and feels like I’m a torch trying to shine on itself.

[Bluejay]

This refers to a dense cluster of sensations but It’s hollow or like a dense cloud you could pass your hand through. Nothing to grasp. I can see or feel through it. It then moves to be the outline of my body but this is just an idea/thought and more sensation. The direct experience is just morphing sensation I can keep looking through. I then remember the lost keys analogy. Then I start looking for what's looking and feels like I’m a torch trying to shine on itself.

With the last few exercises in mind, or all of them if you wish, how does it feel to see what you've found so far?

[okjose]

With the last few exercises in mind, or all of them if you wish, how does it feel to see what you've found so far?

Sorry it’s taken me a while to work out a response. Overall it feels good! I felt quite confused and foggy for a while there and a little startled and maybe excited. I wasn’t sure what a self or me was for a bit. I wasn’t sure what it really meant and the implications to not find it. But I went over it all again and I kept looking for my keys/self (so to speak) and realising they’re not there and that’s helped. It quite a nice feeling to look and feel empty. Like I feel lighter.
However, I still feel I’m not totally clear on it and I want to keep looking. I’ve also kept wondering what is here then as in what’s seeing and looking? I guess nothing and maybe that’s something that will naturally answer itself or not.
I really like the way this is going though :)

[Bluejay]

Sorry it’s taken me a while to work out a response. Overall it feels good! I felt quite confused and foggy for a while there and a little startled and maybe excited. I wasn’t sure what a self or me was for a bit. I wasn’t sure what it really meant and the implications to not find it. But I went over it all again and I kept looking for my keys/self (so to speak) and realising they’re not there and that’s helped. It quite a nice feeling to look and feel empty. Like I feel lighter.
However, I still feel I’m not totally clear on it and I want to keep looking. I’ve also kept wondering what is here then as in what’s seeing and looking? I guess nothing and maybe that’s something that will naturally answer itself or not.
I really like the way this is going though :)

4 hours for a response is not long at all. Feel free to take more time if you feel like it.

Something you can do when you have questions like "What's seeing and looking?" is to look for yourself in direct experience.

Here's also a good exercise that might help:

Seeing Exercise

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'doing' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' and so on.

In this exercise, we'll focus on seeing.

So, close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things going on, but the specifics aren't important.

I'm going to keep things simple and use the term 'blackness' for whatever you can see while your eyes are closed.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

Can an inherent see-er be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

[okjose]

Thanks Henri,

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes there is blackness

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No just blackness in seeing

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

In direct experience of seeing there’s just blackness. Nothing else is found.

What do you find?

In seeing there is just blackness but it doesn’t seem static like it’s alive but to keep it simple it’s blackness.

Can an inherent see-er be found?

No. There is a sense of a seer but I can’t find a seer.

Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

The sense of a seer appears to be sensation mixed with concept/thought. It feels like it’s happening in a space in my awareness but that’s also thought. It feels true to say nothing sees it, it’s just seen.

[Bluejay]

No. There is a sense of a seer but I can’t find a seer.

The sense of a seer appears to be sensation mixed with concept/thought. It feels like it’s happening in a space in my awareness but that’s also thought. It feels true to say nothing sees it, it’s just seen.

It's like if you imagine having a lemon, cutting it in half, and taking a bite. Can you feel it, taste it? Some react to it with more saliva being produced. Then open your eyes. Where is the lemon?

So I'll ask the same question again, not to try and end this inquiry, but to help you reflect: How does it feel to see this?

We keep going until you're done :)

[okjose]

So I'll ask the same question again, not to try and end this inquiry, but to help you reflect: How does it feel to see this?

Doing the lemon experiment it feels normal when I see there is no lemon but shows the potency of imagination very clearly and how tangled up in it I can be.

When I do the same with seeing the blackness with eyes closed and seeing if there was actually a seer present, I noticed there was some resistance and fear of admitting there isn’t. So I decided to just see what is here in the whole of direct experience and there is sensation, sound, thoughts and blackness. These are all known for sure but there is no “person” or seer present or known. If I ask myself is there an “I” seeing blackness, it’s clear that is just a thought (the saying of it and the idea of an “I” or seer or witness). It makes me laugh a bit as I still can’t fully believe it but seeing there is no person and staying with direct experience feels good and nice and simple. I definitely want to be clearer on this and keep seeing it.

[Bluejay]

Doing the lemon experiment it feels normal when I see there is no lemon but shows the potency of imagination very clearly and how tangled up in it I can be.

When I do the same with seeing the blackness with eyes closed and seeing if there was actually a seer present, I noticed there was some resistance and fear of admitting there isn’t. So I decided to just see what is here in the whole of direct experience and there is sensation, sound, thoughts and blackness. These are all known for sure but there is no “person” or seer present or known. If I ask myself is there an “I” seeing blackness, it’s clear that is just a thought (the saying of it and the idea of an “I” or seer or witness). It makes me laugh a bit as I still can’t fully believe it but seeing there is no person and staying with direct experience feels good and nice and simple. I definitely want to be clearer on this and keep seeing it.

There is seemingly more at stake seeing through self, but remember, this is how it always has been. The self is an illusion, so it never existed in the first place. Nothing changes, except the illusion falls.

If there is fear, you can stay with it. Notice where it is in your body, and welcome it. Allow it to expand and do whatever it wants. Just let it be there.

You can also explore the fear in DE. Up to you :)

Let's do hearing next...

Hearing Exercise

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside.

Whatever it is, I'll just refer to it as 'what can be heard'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? A 'person'? A brain? A pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

What do you find?

Can an inherent hearer be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

[okjose]

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

There is just ‘what can be heard’ in hearing.

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

What is doing the hearing cannot be found. Only what can be heard is found.

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? A 'person'? A brain? A pair of ears? Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

Even though there is still a sense of someone hearing, none of those things can be found as they appear to be thoughts in direct experience. There’s just what can be heard.

What do you find?

I find hearing or sounds and a sense of a hearer that seems to distract from simple hearing. The more I let go of ‘a hearer’ or imagination of a person hearing the better it feels. The more I just hear, the clearer it seems that I’m not here and it feels good. It’s like there’s more space for what’s happening (the sound / hearing).

Can an inherent hearer be found?

No.

Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept, idea, or thought?

It would just be a thought yes. It would have to be imagined.

[Bluejay]

Okay, great :)

This next exercise I'd like you to do for at least a day. You can even do it for two days if you feel like it. You can write an update post after the first 24 hours if it feels appropriate.

Body Exercise - Inner GPS

Your body naturally navigates life, and gives you data on what it resonates with and what it doesn’t.

For example, have you ever had a ‘gut feeling’ that you shouldn’t do something, and you did it anyway?

Or maybe you felt like doing something that made no logical sense, but it led to exactly what you needed at that time in your life?

It may not make sense logically, but the body knows more than we are aware of.

These yes/no signals often come as expansion/contraction, light/heavy, open/closed, but they may be different for you.

What I’d like you to do for next day is this:

1. Tell your mind that you will conduct an experiment for 24 hours, and that things will return to normal after that if appropriate (this is to get some space and focus on the body)

2. As often as you can, pay attention to what your body feels drawn to do spontaneously. If it isn’t convenient to do this for all decisions, then do it for small ones, or whenever you can.

(If you have a hard time connecting to your body, just do your best. Look at this as an experiment and play with it.)

3. Pay attention to how your inner GPS communicates with you. Where is it in your body? What does it feel like? (focus on direct experience)

4. Also notice how thoughts about self affect the body. What do you find?

If you experience thoughts such as:

- “This doesn’t work”
- “Why are you doing this?”
- “This is silly”
- “This is unsafe”

Tell your mind that you’re just doing it for 24 hours to see what it’s like.

What happened? Report back what you discover.

Let me know if you have any questions :)

[okjose]

Thanks Henri, will let you know how it goes!