Pre-Awakening

[Statum]

Do you feel what you wrote is more of an intellectual understanding, or
is it a visceral one?

I feel it to be more intellectual.

[Bananafish]

Ok, don't worry if you don't get it viscerally now. We'll go into the matter in different ways
so that you could see it clearly.

Now, how is the sense of being you felt? Sense here means the five senses plus thoughts and images.

[Statum]

Now, how is the sense of being you felt? Sense here means the five senses plus thoughts and images.

It is felt as thoughts about past and future; referencing beliefs about control. It comes up as an image of a face and body that is seen in the mirror. There is either a feeling of emptiness or tension in the stomach, chest, and behind the eyes.

[Bananafish]

Which one of those is the sense of being you?
Can you pinpoint it?

[Statum]

Which one of those is the sense of being you?
Can you pinpoint it?

I would say if there was only a single sense, then it is the beliefs and thoughts that arise when fear is present.

[Bananafish]

Could you write exactly what those thoughts are?
This time, please write about the contents of those thoughts.

[Bananafish]

I meant, please elaborate on the contents of those thoughts as much as possible.

[Statum]

Could you write exactly what those thoughts are?
This time, please write about the contents of those thoughts.

To give a few examples: The thoughts use language such as “you’ve always been like this”, “is this what you want your life to be like?”, “that’s not like me”, “I need to make something happen if it’s going to get better.” They seem to appear out of nowhere and for no reason.

There are thoughts about a person who looks like the image seen in the mirror doing different things; going about their day in several of the ways that they could potentially do it. Along with the thoughts of this person there are other thoughts that say which of those potential things were good or bad. For example, when the person is imagined to help someone and be praised for it, a corresponding thought is “that is what you should do” or “be like that”. And if another thought comes up where the person is remembered to have said something which was trying to be funny but no one laughed, the thought comes saying, “that was so bad” or “you need to get over that bad thing that happened”.

These thoughts are correspond to feelings in the body like a warm tension in the chest and stomach when there is a strong emotion corresponding to these thoughts. Then other thoughts say “I’m getting angry”. And the cycle of reflecting the senses with thought continue without there being any actual content experienced in reality; nothing actually seen, heard, touched, smelled, or tasted.

[Bananafish]

Thanks, Statum. :) If you were to choose one that bothers you more, regarding what you previously wrote,
would you choose thought or the feelings in the body?

In observing them, try alternating and see how different they feel.

[Statum]

Thanks, Statum. :) If you were to choose one that bothers you more, regarding what you previously wrote,
would you choose thought or the feelings in the body?

In observing them, try alternating and see how different they feel.

The one that bothers me is the thought that says “this bothers me”. Without that thought, sensations come and go but they don’t seem to cycle around and around like thoughts do. Feelings seem just to be like weather patterns; they don’t say what they are in themselves or what they mean. But thoughts say what they mean and often it is the negative meaning.

And so I would say the thoughts about things bother me more than the things themselves.

[Bananafish]

Ok, now, please try sitting or standing still and observe the quality / nature (not contents this time)
of thoughts.

First question: where do they come from?

[Statum]

First question: where do they come from?

They appear “here”, but I can’t be any more descriptive than that. The more I search for it, a more fitting answer may be that thoughts come from “nowhere”. They just appear where(?) from where(?). They aren’t left or right from anything, they are not bigger or smaller than anything. They are just here when they are here and then they are gone from where they came from which is nowhere.

[Bananafish]

Thanks! Do they stay or do they come and go? Do you need to force them to
go when you don't want them to stay?

Some more ...

Can you keep them from coming when you don't want them to come?
Can you make such thoughts that you like come at your own will?

Please actually try these and see.

[Statum]

Do they stay or do they come and go? Do you need to force them to go when you don't want them to stay?
Can you keep them from coming when you don't want them to come?
Can you make such thoughts that you like come at your own

They do come and go. Some recur more often than others depending on the amount of attention it is given. There doesn’t seem to be anything that can be done to make them go away when they are unwanted. The closest thing would be to think on something else. For example, I can’t stop thinking about a pink elephant with the thought or desire which says “stop thinking about a pink elephant”. I may however get distracted with other thoughts and the thought of a pink elephant leaves as attention is caught up with another thought.

I can’t make them come or go when there is desire for them and I can’t make the desire for them come and go either. The closest thing would be to watch a movie or subject myself to experience which I predict can bring certain thoughts about. But again, I can’t choose which movie or experience comes to mind as most fitting. It all seems to appear as involuntarily to me as a scene in a movie appears without me doing anything to cause it.

[Bananafish]

Brilliant, Statum. :)

And where is the thinker of thoughts, when thoughts appear?

Could you try finding it? Please don't jump to the conclusion that there is none.
Actually look for it, and if there is even a bit of thinker perceived, please
report.

Warm regards,

Kento