Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

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Katharyn
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Katharyn » Mon May 15, 2023 7:36 am

I notice that I really enjoyed the smell, almost most of all. I don’t eat much fruit (it sits in the “should” category in my mind), but I love Fuji apples. I cut the apple up, and sat the plate next to me as I began the exercise.
(An extra note: There is something to explore about why it took me so long to sit down to do this exercise. Another shade of resistance. (There was a kind of mild aversion.))

But once I cut the apple up, I was enjoying the smell!
When I actually bit into the apple, I noticed a pleasing crunch (banishing the fear I didn’t realize I had of ‘bad/mealy apple’) and I also noticed that the sweetness was a little less than I had anticipated. I still liked it, it was a good apple, a good sweetness – but somehow I had been expecting sweeter.
The crunching was satisfying, the taste satisfying, and I enjoyed the act of reaching for slice after slice. I’m even enjoying the after-taste right now. I was able to keep my attention on the experience of eating the apple.

tell me what you notice when you compare these three experiences:-
- Imaginary fruit
- Real fruit
- Description

When I compare Imaginary-to-Real-to-Description..
I was aware with the imaginary fruit, my mind was intruding enough to make my experience jumpy, not fluid. I would have to effort to come back to experience of the fruit. There is the question about why I put this off, and a slight ‘grouchiness’ to “having to do this”. But the fruit was sweet, I was imagining being happy to be eating it, and even wanting to go get some peanut butter for my imagined apple (my favorite way to eat an apple!)

When eating the real fruit, I noticed not only the comparison of the sweetness (to my expectation of sweeter) but I also notice my enjoyment: my enjoyment of the real seems to have been fueled a bit by my memory-of-enjoying-the-imaginary. I brought some of that happiness into the Real experience and “let it be real/true”. I didn't even think about peanut butter, I was just with the apple! Mostly that experience ‘just was’.

In writing the description, I now can notice a critical evaluation going on – Was I doing this right? I’m sure I’m doing this badly. Was I paying enough attention? Etc.

I’m now noticing a quality of the ‘real experience’ that, as mentioned, ‘just was’. I just ate, tasted, swallowed, enjoyed, reached for more. But the texture, or quality of the Imagined & Describing experiences have additional ‘interference’, ‘substance’, (a layer of burden) in the additional mind--busy-ness.

With this recognition, there is a slight 'disturbance', ... I'm trying to figure out how to verbalize this, it is almost as if I DISLIKE the experiences that included all that Mind involvement -- when comparing them. (kinda confused if I'm 'making this up')

Looking forward to talking soon!
Katharyn

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Luchana
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Luchana » Wed May 17, 2023 9:16 am

Hi Katheryn,

I
n writing the description, I now can notice a critical evaluation going on – Was I doing this right? I’m sure I’m doing this badly. Was I paying enough attention? Etc.

I’m now noticing a quality of the ‘real experience’ that, as mentioned, ‘just was’. I just ate, tasted, swallowed, enjoyed, reached for more. But the texture, or quality of the Imagined & Describing experiences have additional ‘interference’, ‘substance’, (a layer of burden) in the additional mind--busy-ness.

With this recognition, there is a slight 'disturbance', ... I'm trying to figure out how to verbalize this, it is almost as if I DISLIKE the experiences that included all that Mind involvement -- when comparing them. (kinda confused if I'm 'making this up')
You did a lovely observation!

And we already take a look at feeling of disturbance, confusion and dislike - they are just simple sensations which arising at experience not because you did something wrong.

I would like to invite you for something really funny.

How would you explain to a 5 year old child that her or his imagined friend is not real?
It should be very, very simple for that the child could understand that...
What would you ask or say to the child if you want them to make a distinguish between real and imaginary?


Take your time and have fun :-)

Sending much love,

Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Katharyn
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Katharyn » Sat May 27, 2023 12:05 am

Dear Luchana,
I want to offer some of my ‘lookings’ of late. On the topic of choice, you had suggested sitting with an enticing option in front of me and watching the choice to eat or not to eat. (Since I’d just spoiled myself the night before with some delicious chocolate truffles, I decided to ‘watch’ choice in a different instance.)

First I want to say that I came to believe years ago that our ultimate choice in a situation (like, to buy that car) happens long before the thoughts supporting it. That the choice is emotional, deeper, and then the thoughts (seconds later) just come along to fill in the gap of ‘explaining why’.

So with that in mind, I began to watch for anything perceivable happening (called choosing) even before the emotional gravitation.

In my first attempt, I have to say I could identify ‘already knowing’ the choice had been made, and then watching this silly play of thoughts about Yes or No.

However, what I was able to watch in the days that follow were: in the midst of gathering boxes to dismantle for recycling – I was able to review and look for the decision/choice to do that. I couldn’t seem to find a choice. Just a seeing and reaching for boxes. This continued in similar activities.

Again and again, in small instances, I looked ‘midstream of the doing’ for the choice. I heard no echoes of any ‘discussion in thought’ OR a sense of choosing. I’ll keep looking, but I’m suspecting I’m not going to find the Chooser!! :P

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Luchana
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Luchana » Sun May 28, 2023 7:11 am

Hi Katheryn,


you did a lovely looking!
However, what I was able to watch in the days that follow were: in the midst of gathering boxes to dismantle for recycling – I was able to review and look for the decision/choice to do that. I couldn’t seem to find a choice. Just a seeing and reaching for boxes. This continued in similar activities.
Yes :-)
Let's dig here more

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.
Focus on focussing, attention itself.

What moves attention?
Do you move it?
Is a thought in control of attention?
Or attention moves by itself.

Hold focus on breath.

See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something YOU control?


Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Luchana
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Luchana » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:53 am

Hi dear Katharyn,

like we spoke on our meeting yesterday here are the questions:

Take time with each one of them and reply from experience of how you see things now. Fresh, fresh :-)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Katharyn
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Katharyn » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:45 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is no ‘thing’ that is “I”, “self”. Only a constructed, maintained string of perpetual thoughts that cause a ‘orientation’ toward… ‘it’. So, no, it never Was a thing or entity.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion is the string of thoughts (memories, self-references, projections into future) that get entertained from a young age. (And it is necessary for the child to develop & to operate within the Relative.) The seeming persistence gives a sense of ‘permanence’ of ‘something’ (self). But the ‘seeming persistence’ is created AND maintained by returning to this ‘string of thoughts’ with more thought, again & again….
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels freeing to see this. To not find anything that is ‘that self’. The difference (if I can remember) is that the ASSUMPTION that “I” am (upset, frustrated, etc) brought a need/impulse to “do” something about it. Now – there is a willingness to just notice, often with curiosity – either in the moment or immediately after. And the need to ‘do’ (or react) has really fallen away.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I have to say that the major shift was when I stopped comparing myself to others’ experience. There are reports of this experience or that experience that I haven’t had. Up until recently, that put up a block wall of doubt. When I stopped comparing, I was able to accept that ahhh, for this body-mind, THIS is what it is.
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
I’ve been watching ‘decision making’, even watching and not ‘making’ a decision and yet a movement is made, and ‘choice’ is taken. Watching what unfolds.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
In the past I have had deep reverence for intention, as creative. But now I suspect that intention is an (internal) interpretation of how Life is dancing me. – I no longer see the need that *I* set and hold intentions.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
This was a struggle for a bit …. Then I heard that there is no *personal* free will, but it is all free will. That seemed to open it up.
Also the transformation of seeing that ‘Life is dancing us’ has minimized the ‘problem’ any of these question topics: Decisioning, Intention, Free will…
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
This is the twin (for me) of Decision. I watch now, and can see that action is chosen (or not). Sometimes surprising me, yet mostly there is no heat or juice about it.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
The need to control, or predict, or plan has really fallen away. Months ago I had started recognizing that what I could do is say Yes to what Life brought me.
And if instead no ‘Yes’ arises, then I watch (mostly) and wait. For example I recently had a deep knowing that I want to go back to partial-in-person with my clients. But how that will unfold, I have no idea. And so I relax about it. When something arises to move forward on, then I will see that.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What: Life unfolding. How: Life unfolding.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
In the Relative: Staying in the Relative while Driving a Car (e.g.). In the Absolute: if PLAY can be a responsibility, then This pattern/this body-mind ‘ought’ to continue to Play within and as Life Unfolds As-It.
We each have a unique gift to offer back to Life if we are capable and willing to let It find It’s way to dance Thru and As ‘us’.
6) Anything to add?
The freedom to see what IS right here, accept it as it is.. when I stopped comparing my experience.. stunningly freeing! The flowering of contentment is noted! (Thanks for naming this with me Luchana!!)

With much love & gratitude
Katharyn

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Luchana
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Luchana » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:25 am

Hi Katharyn,

thank you for your replies. Beautiful to read.


I will share the answers with the other fellow guides to have a look if I missed something. And they may or may not have some further questions for you. If yes - I will post them here.

This may takes time.

Sending love,
luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Luchana
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Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Luchana » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:25 pm

Hi Katharyn,
there are few independent confirmations from the other guides and there are no further questions for you, which is basically the end of this thread here, but definitely not the END. Awakening as you can confirm in your own direct experience has no end..no? :-)

The admin from the forum will contact you and your name will turns into blue. You will have access to more areas here in the forum and also in FB group.

Thank you for the trust and for the openness and willingness to look. It was a joy to explore together the false idea of separation.

Much love,
and see you soon!
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Katharyn
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Re: Open, Opening, and wondering if this is next

Postby Katharyn » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:58 pm

Thank you so much Luchana and look forward to continuing our off-forum exploration!

MUCH love!
Katharyn


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