Revealing the Real

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

What does the believing ?

When looking for what does the believing, there’s a sense of spaciousness and a feeling of peace.

Does it seem that believing just happens?

Yes.

Is there some way to prevent the thought "I" from appearing ?

No.

Are there moments of 'waking up' again (after a period of believing in "I"?). If so who or what makes this waking happen?

Yes. Who or what makes this waking happen is a mystery.

All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Hi Dariel

. When looking for what does the believing, there’s a sense of spaciousness and a feeling of peace.

Very nice.

. Is there some way to prevent the thought "I" from appearing ?
No.

So, the illusion of self appears and it seems, there's no one there to prevent it from appearing , noone that falls for the illusion (but somehow believing it to be real happens) and later, 'waking up' happens , yet how remains a mystery.

Alright. Now, how do things happen? Do you make anything happen?

All the best

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

Now, how do things happen? Do you make anything happen?

How things happen is a mystery. “I” don’t make anything happen.


All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Ok. Thank you.

Is it seen beyond shadow of doubt that there is no self and never was?

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

Is it seen beyond shadow of doubt that there is no self and never was?

Yes, it is seen beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no self and never was. With time and continued looking, hopefully the identification with the illusory separate "self" will drop as well.

Thank you.
All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Hi Dariel

Was there a moment , a point at which this became clear? Perhaps before our conversation here or during it? Was it something someone said that pushed you over ? If so what was that?

In your own words can you please tell me the what changed? How things seem now in contrast to how things sed to seem before the illusion was seen?

Many thanks

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

Was there a moment, a point at which this became clear? Perhaps before our conversation here or during it? Was it something someone said that pushed you over? If so what was that?

Answering questions from direct experience rather than from the intellect was very effective. The repetitive questions that could only be answered by looking for a separate “self” and then repeatedly not being able to find one, helped make it clear that there is no separate “self”.

Seeing and experiencing; no “self” when looked for, that there’s no control over the arising of thoughts, and that things seemingly just happen, helped to eliminate all doubt.

The following comment and question by you helped to push me over -
“So, the illusion of self appears and it seems, there's no one there to prevent it from appearing, no one that falls for the illusion (but somehow believing it to be real happens), and later, 'waking up' happens, yet how remains a mystery.
All right. Now, how do things happen? Do you make anything happen?”

In your own words can you please tell me the what changed? How things seem now in contrast to how things sed to seem before the illusion was seen?

Before the illusion was seen, there was a sense of control, now it is seen that how things happen is a mystery, and that “I” don’t make anything happen. Now, I’ve looked for the separate “self “ enough to really know and experience that there isn’t one and never was whereas before I hadn’t.

Now, there’s more awareness of identification as a separate “self” when it happens. Also, there’s a lightness about it. It’s not taken so seriously as I know it’s an illusion, a thought.

Many thanks for all your insightful guidance.
All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Hello Dariel

Thanks for this.


Just to let you know, it's extremely busy at work today and tomorrow. I will reply as soon as possible , probably Saturday.

All best

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

Thank you for letting me know. I look forward to hearing from you when you are available.

All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Hello Dariel

I have some questions that I would like you to consider now. Please answer these as fully as you deem necessary. Feel free to answer two or three at time if that helps.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

,Answer in each case from direct experience.


Many thanks

Regards

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is the identification with the thought that I am a “self” that is separate from all that is and/or from life itself. This separate “self” is made reference to by the labels; I, me, or mine, and is believed to have control over its life and the decisions made. The illusion of a separate “self” started as a toddler when I first learned to say “mama”, “dada”, and “mine”.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders, it’s such a relief. Now, there’s an increasing sense of peace, lightness, contentment, and trust.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It really seems to be cumulative as I was made to look from the very beginning.

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision – a conclusion or resolution reached after consideration.
An invitation to attend an event is received. The thought, “I don’t want to go to that” arises. No “I” is experienced. The event is not attended.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention – is a determination to accomplish a specific goal.
The thought, “I am going to organize papers tonight” arises. There is no separate “self” labeled I experienced, and a sense of peace follows.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will – having the capacity for independent thinking, decision-making, analysis, and conclusion drawing.
The thought, “I have free will” arises. If I look for the “I”, it’s seen there is none. Thoughts, choices, and conclusions seemingly happen.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice - the act of selecting or making a decision among multiple options.
When hungry, the thought arises, “What am I going to eat?”. Thoughts of what food is available appear and a thought of a specific meal pops up. No “I” is experienced.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control – the power to influence or direct the actions of oneself, others, or the course of events.
The thought, “I am going to take a shower” arises. There is no “I” experience and showering happens.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Both, what makes things happen and how it works are a mystery.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no separate “self” so the “you/me/ I” is not responsible for anything. The separate “you/me/ I” has no responsibility because the separate “you/me/ I” is an illusion, a thought, it doesn’t actually exist in reality.

Anything to add?

It’s all a mystery.

Thank you so much.
All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Thank you for your answers.

I asked other guides to take a look at our conversation and one of them asks the following question:

How does it feel to be DANIEL right now ?

Given the nature of the question I suggest that you don't think it through too hard but just write what comes.

All the best

Jon

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

How does it feel to be DANIEL right now ?

Is "DANIEL" spelled with an "N" intentional or did they mean to write DARIEL with an "R"?

Thanks,
Dariel

[AlreadySo]

Hello Jon,

How does it feel to be DANIEL right now ?

DANIEL or DARIEL is a label so how it’s spelled doesn’t matter.

Looking for Dariel, I find the feeling of joy, fluidity, lightness and airiness, borderlessness, and clear space.

Thank you,
All the best,
Dariel

[JonathanR]

Hello Dariel

I think the guide did spell your name as Daniel purposely.

Your answers to the six questions were fine. "Textbook" answers, if there were a textbook of "right answers" to this inquiry, (which there should not be).

I also need to ask you about whether you really did manage to put aside your strong interest in the Fetters inquiry in order to investigate "self" properly?

Given your prior involvement with Fetters and Pernille it could easily be that you had already identified with an idea of being "at" Fetter 5 (for example) or Fetter 9 , or any of the others prior to being advised to go back to fetter 1?

It could easily be that you had detailed prior intellectual knowledge of various "stages" and how they are described so that it was easy to see what the "right answers" should be?

I'm concerned that there could be impatience to get shot of the LU inquiry as soon as possible in order to get back to a perceived higher level?

Tell me if that is or is not true and feel free to explain why?

These are real concerns. We guide here to assist people to properly succeed in their non-dual inquiry and not to rush someone through.

What I need from you now is for you to tell me very much in your own words what is the same as before this inquiry, what is different? And do it at some length so that I'm left in no doubt.

Thanks

Jon