Round and Round "I" Go

[JonathanR]

This is all good Leesi,

Do let me know how your investigation goes?

Thanks

Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

Mainly checking in just now
Been one of those busy days with not a lot of time to contemplate

I have been pondering here and there though

The sense data received is just that, information input,
I’m not doing any of it, just receiving it, some seemingly by choice on the surface example being “choosing” which book to read or what to have for dinner…

Each “choice” though is based on a present set of circumstances - of which can change at any time (not through my doing but by any number of variables) and the “decisions” I think I’m making are all based on my knowledge and experience of the world up until now - the moment of that perceived decision

I feel as though we are only constantly responding and reacting to the stimuli that arises - of which we have no control
We create a narrative and illusion that we are choosing for a self in order to feel special, unique and “Real”

This is where I am at for now Jon
Any more pointers appreciated and looking forward to a quieter day tomorrow (but hey! Who knows!? Lol)

Leesi :)

[JonathanR]

Hi Leesi

Thanks for your post

. The sense data received is just that, information input,

Yes but input to where?

Into some control centre somewhere?

Just before we delve into Choices and Decisions further I want to ask you a question about thoughts.

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing?
Try preventing a thought from appearing.

Also, is it possible to create a thought? Try that too.

Tell me how these go ? :-)

Jon

[Leesi]

Hiya Jon

Yes but input to where?

I want to say to my brain

Into some control centre somewhere

Into my consciousness… I’m looking at the word “my” here and it doesn’t feel right, I’ve been viewing consciousness lately as a shared asset - for want of a better word haha!
Rather than mine more of a channel to tune into

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing?

100% not :)

Also, is it possible to create a thought? Try that too.

Been overthinking this one - no pun intended :)
Each time I try and create a thought it is preceded by other thoughts! I have to think about creating a thought in order to create a thought!

Look forward to your reply Jon

Thanks
Leesi
:)

[JonathanR]

Hi Leesi

.I want to say to my brain

This takes us to an interesting question that you may anticipate. How is this known?

Sensations such as hearing can be found going on directly, right now. But Is there direct experience of a brain?

. Into my consciousness… I’m looking at the word “my” here and it doesn’t feel right, I’ve been viewing consciousness lately as a shared asset - for want of a better word haha!
Rather than mine more of a channel to tune into

Nice. Yes, just shifting the wording slightly changed the meaning from "my consciousness" to (simply) "consciousness". Take away the "my" and there's no assumed entity but there's still consciousness. Where does that start or end? Perhaps there doesn't have to be "input" if consciousness is not separate from sensation?

About not being able to prevent or create thoughts. Good work.

Given your answer, is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing including the thought "I"?

Over to you...

Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

This takes us to an interesting question that you may anticipate. How is this known?

It’s not known - it is assumed, based on what I’ve been told and taught. There is no direct experience of a brain.

Where does that start or end? Perhaps there doesn't have to be "input" if consciousness is not separate from sensation?

It seems that consciousness “is” everything - the backdrop of everything, all things are and happen within that consciousness - which is not mine or yours but ours collectively, this would include EVERYTHING. There would be no start or end because it’s what’s there eternally for in which all things do appear and take place, thoughts, emotions, sensations, feelings, plants, animals, human beings.. everything… the universe… it’s all within consciousness
It can’t not be… wow

Given your answer, is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing including the thought "I"?

It’s not possible, everything just appears including the thought “I”

It feels true that I am this consciousness underneath (encompassing?) everything else

I’ll have to leave it there Jon the kids are calling

Thanks
Leesi
:)

[JonathanR]

Hi Leesi

. It seems that consciousness “is” everything - the backdrop of everything, all things are and happen within that consciousness - which is not mine or yours but ours collectively, this would include EVERYTHING. There would be no start or end because it’s what’s there eternally for in which all things do appear and take place, thoughts, emotions, sensations, feelings, plants, animals, human beings.. everything… the universe… it’s all within consciousness
It can’t not be… wow

Beautiful.

In this case Theres a good exercise I would recommend. It involves going for a walk in nature. By the sea or where there is grass, trees, and so on. A park would do. Somewhere natural, with sky,weather, birds, animals, people, where everything is alive. Perhaps you will go therewith your kids? You will need a few moments of peacefulness , maybe only two or three minutes, to try the following,;

Relax and notice all the life around, leaves, clouds, sounds, temperature , sun...everything going on, alive. At the same time notice any feelings, sensations, , thoughts that appear. Now, in this experience look to see if it's possible to find an edge or line anywhere, where "you" end and "everything else" begins?

Is it possible?


Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

On waking this morning it felt as if I was viewing from the outside inwards rather than the norm of the other way round, I wanted to share this in case you could offer any insights here, it lasted a fair amount of time and I’ve dipped in and out of this perspective on and off all day so far… it feels more expansive and lighter

Relax and notice all the life around, leaves, clouds, sounds, temperature , sun...everything going on, alive. At the same time notice any feelings, sensations, , thoughts that appear. Now, in this experience look to see if it's possible to find an edge or line anywhere, where "you" end and "everything else" begins?

This was an amazing walk! Almost trance like…
There were sensations I can describe as in the pit of my stomach, light tingling like bubbles/fizz dissipating and an almost melting into what I was seeing hearing (experiencing) and then a sense of awe and beauty - I want to say oneness, it was a feeling of vastness

Wonderful

That’s all for now - I was excited to share :)
I must do this exercise more

Thanks Jon
Leesi
:)

[JonathanR]

Hi Leesi

. On waking this morning it felt as if I was viewing from the outside inwards rather than the norm of the other way round, I wanted to share this in case you could offer any insights here, it lasted a fair amount of time and I’ve dipped in and out of this perspective on and off all day so far… it feels more expansive and lighter

That sounds beautiful.

It isn't uncommon for people to report some kind of shift during self-inquiry. It doesn't seem to be possible to predict what kind of experiences may happen, if any. It sounds good. I'd just add that it's better not to expect a particular sort of experience to keep happening, at least, not to order. .

. This was an amazing walk! Almost trance like…
There were sensations I can describe as in the pit of my stomach, light tingling like bubbles/fizz dissipating and an almost melting into what I was seeing hearing (experiencing) and then a sense of awe and beauty - I want to say oneness, it was a feeling of vastness

That's really wonderful. I'm so glad you managed to do the walk.

You may find that this vastness, or echoes of it, may keep reappearing over the next few days. Notice it if it does. If it doesn't don't be worried. These things can be very subtle and trying to "make them reappear" can be confusing. Just noticing such experience is enough.

Write again soon and let me know how it's going?

Very best wishes

Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

It isn't uncommon for people to report some kind of shift during self-inquiry. It doesn't seem to be possible to predict what kind of experiences may happen, if any. It sounds good. I'd just add that it's better not to expect a particular sort of experience to keep happening, at least, not to order. .

Good to keep in mind thankyou Jon

You may find that this vastness, or echoes of it, may keep reappearing over the next few days. Notice it if it does. If it doesn't don't be worried. These things can be very subtle and trying to "make them reappear" can be confusing. Just noticing such experience is enough.

Appreciate your guidance thankyou Jon

Write again soon and let me know how it's going?

I will indeed thankyou once more Jon
Been quite tired today so will keep it short and sweet

Take Care
Leesi
:)

[JonathanR]

Thanks Leesi,

You too.

[JonathanR]

Hi Leesi

I know you are often very busy but thought I'd ask how it's going? The exercise you did when you were out for a walk sounded great.

When you get time let me know how things are?

Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

I know you are often very busy but thought I'd ask how it's going? The exercise you did when you were out for a walk sounded great.

When you get time let me know how things are?

Sorry I’ve not been in touch, had a couple of the children off school sick - youngest with tonsillitis so I have been on cuddle duty for the last few days - nursing a migraine right now so not sure if I’m coming down with something myself… that been said I am good thanks - there seems to be an overwhelming sense of acceptance to whatever is arising, no stressing over what may be, occasional “zooming out” to a wider perspective feeling…
A real sense of being and not doing

Interestingly my dreams have become vivid and memorable (not been so for a long time)
I woke yesterday with the thought “that dream was so realistic ” just like “real life” and it was apparent to me that “I” had created all the characters in my dream and they were all contained in my sleeping consciousness - it seemed to correlate somewhat to waking consciousness and the feeling I felt on the walk this week

So the other thing I believe is happening at night time whilst going to sleep - the only way I can describe it (feels true)
Old thoughts and emotions are arising that I become aware of and I delve straight into them, feeling them physically - mainly in my gut or heart area - it’s semi uncomfortable - if I feel resistance I talk to it and reassure the fear that it’s ok to go there like you taught me, I let myself feel it - it’s like a pushing through push push and a feeling of release - it truly feels like a releasing is happening - three or four occurrences at a time and that’s enough it doesn’t feel overwhelming it feels natural and gentle

I’m not forcing anything
Not trying to make anything happen
- what can “I” do anyway? haha!
It’s kind of like “I’ve” just gotten out the way and life is doing it’s thing - and I trust it, the fear feels like it’s dropping away

:)

Where do we go from here Jon?

Hope your having a good week your end
As always appreciate your time so much

Thanks
Leesi
:)

[JonathanR]

You are doing marvelously Leesi.

Just take your time. Notice how everything unfolds.
In many ways you are guiding yourself.

Some people might find the busy - ness of looking after two kids whilst having a migraine rather inauspicious for self-inquiry. It's very good that you simply get on and notice whatever is happening without seeking to change things.

The dreaming is interesting. Again, its good to notice this aspect too.

. it truly feels like a releasing is happening - three or four occurrences at a time and that’s enough it doesn’t feel overwhelming it feels natural and gentle

This is good. You're right not to force anything.

. It’s kind of like “I’ve” just gotten out the way and life is doing it’s thing - and I trust it, the fear feels like it’s dropping away

Another good sign.

. Where do we go from here Jon?

I was going to ask you :-)

Let things just be for a day or two and I may ask a few new questions then.

Thanks. I'm having a fairly good week. Even better after reading this!

Much love

Jon

[Leesi]

Hi Jon

You are doing marvelously Leesi.

Just take your time. Notice how everything unfolds.
In many ways you are guiding yourself.

Thankyou

I have had a day of exhaustion and an emotional confrontation
That was quite intense - I did not avoid or try to minimise or run away from the conflict - It was different, I felt somewhat detached from what was occurring - it wasn’t “personal” and I let the uncomfortableness of the situation be - I cried and felt like this was in fact a positive release - I am viewing so called negative experiences as fresh ways in which to grow

The experience resolved, passed and I let go of it going onto to (in the same day) have a wonderfully uplifting evening

I am seeing - feeling - that my days are spent riding waves of energy - whatever comes - nothing is permanent - so clinging to ANYTHING is nonsensical lol :)

Live and let live

I was going to ask you :-)

:)
I still have wonderings such as how and why “we” came to be -
It fascinates me really - but then I see these wondering are just like any other thoughts - not under my control -
I think I just have to let all of this unfold by itself - what else can I do :) an I’m ok with that - I feel an acceptance of that which wasn’t there before

Let things just be for a day or two and I may ask a few new questions then.

Great thankyou Jon look forward to it :)

Take care
Leesi
:)