I went through the 1st step of 7-Steps, now there's unexpected anger...

[Anastacia42]

By the way...

Vince's meeting is tomorrow. I think the time change affected it. Check with him, please.

There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:

Thursday Meetings.

Hi Guys,

we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.

Here is an invitation for you:

Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on youtube.

To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com

You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.

Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
__________________________________________________

Meet up with vince (For LU seekers & guides)

Monday August 14

6 am Sydney (est) Australia
Every 2 weeks after that.

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Let him know if you want email reminders.

Vinceschubert@gmail.com

__________________________________________________

Ilona's Meetings

Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )

To register send Ilona an email to

admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Looking forward :)


__________________________________________________

(videos)

Hi everyone.

Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.

https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4

Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate

Ilona

__________________________________________________

Have fun with these. Looking forward to next reply.

Loving,

[alexmed]

How did it FEEL to SEE?

A bit familiar. :) The thing is that I heard about this I-feeling before, I read about that and paid some attention to it couple of years ago, when was practicing meditation. However that was vague experience, while this excersise made it more intense and clear.

I see that every time the Ego (I) intervene into my activity, there will be a certain sign of that - a sensation.

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc. ... Do you see that?

Yes. When I remember the moment when I was lying to another person, a feeling of tightness mostly is in the middle of the guts (above the navel) arise. Also a bit of tension in the head - as seems I was "using" my head to come up with the story.

Thank you!
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Good, yes.

Pay attention to your gut & whether your thoughts are truth or lies. The "I" label brings up the tightness that indicates a lie.

So, let's bring this together:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[alexmed]

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

The "apple" thought describes how the apple would taste and smell, how it would be juicy and crispy in my mouth etc.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Nuh. Actually there are only color+picture and a thought with the tail of emotions.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No.

However, is an apple actually known?

At that moment I felt sadness, because first intellectually and then internally something in me understood it haven't ever known what apple actually is. And will never know!.. All that we have is sensations (hearing, seeing, tasting etc) and thoughts about them. I heard about that theory earlier and understood it intellectually, but never could feel it like I do right now. Oh, that sadness... :) It's like you're in a glass room with no option to go outside for the rest of your life... :)

And just after that I noticed a bit of distrust to some sensations I'm experiencing for some time. E.g. when one hand touches another. But it's back to normal now.

Thank you!
Alex.

[alexmed]

And also, one side note!

Back to your advise on the anger, in your first reply:

One last thing, a definition of anger: anger is the attempt to do something contaminated by the illusion that you are presently helpless. Solution? Notice that you are *not* helpless & do something.

So I started to practice this. I had anger of different intensity a couple of times during these days in certain circumstances, like issues with car tyres. And these 2 times I remembered your advise, I asked myself "Why am I angry? Helpless?.. Yes! But am I really helpless? Can I actually do something about this?", and during the thinking of the possible solutions anger goes out!

Thank you a lot for this advise, Stacy!

[Anastacia42]

Excellent!

Now here is the definition of sadness:

All sadness is a temper tantrum against accepting "reality" or "what is."

~ Byron Katie

Much love

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy,

All sadness is a temper tantrum against accepting "reality" or "what is."

Apologies, I haven't posted here in over a day, as I was thinking you'd post something else later.

I'm not sure if I was supposed to do anything with the last definition. But maybe it was a "koan"-like task?.. :)

So I was thinking about the temper tantrum, and you're right - I have issues with accepting of "what is". But I'm not sure what to do with this, and what's next?

Best wishes,
Alex.

[alexmed]

And I'll add it right away...

To be honest, I was also tempting to conclude from your phrase I'm awake, but just don't want to accept this... But if so - I'm still not sure.

E.g. when I say to myself "I do not exist. I am simply a story about this persona" - nothing replies as before, nothing gets agitated. Just a tension in the head appears, but maybe it's just a sign of the comprehending the phrase...

Anyway, would appreciate any further directions.

Thank you a lot,
Alex.

[alexmed]

Okay, seems my moto of the past 2 days: "nothing or everything at once".

An update. Not sure if that's important - let me know if I should provide such spontaneous updates.

Just got back from an evening walk, was listening to audio-book of "Gatecrashers" (by the way, let know if should stop doing this, because I remember some guides ask not reading/consuming anything during the period of guidance - but I don't read anything apart from LU-books of Direct Pointing).

It was "Charles" chapter, when they were discussing the I-sense, a "doer", who needs to make money - and I recognized myself in that.

I noticed that "doer" in me. I vividly remembered that "doer"-feeling which I usually experience during the workday, which I was experiencing just today (it was easy, it's a pretty tough month, pretty loaded). But then I couldn't figure out, how to get rid of that feeling - a very strong belief that this sensation is me! No, really - how could it be not me? That's me!..

At a certain moment I stopped listening to audio-book, and started to concentrate on that sensation. No way, no, that's 100% me... Then I've got a guess - there must be a "place" where I believe this sensation is me. And as soon as I thought that, intuitively payed attention to that hypothetic "place" - and it dropped. This was like a "mount point" of that sensation, where something in me (my brain? my mind?) strongly associated that sensation as "me". From that moment an automatic process started for some time (15-20 min), I felt a relief and it was like something is dropping and boiling in my head.

Now I barely can remember or make it tense that "doer" sensation, and if I can - it's just a tension in my head. Will look what happens there tomorrow.

Best wishes,
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Alex,

Yes, listening to LU materials is fine. And a few others on our Resources page. The pointers I give you are enough. Focus mostly on those, please.

Let's see. How about a pointer on "Doership?"

Report how it FEELS to SEE.


Doership Exercise

There is no self to be found, so let’s have a look at the feeling of being a 'doer’.


Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then: Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.


Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).



So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off?

Can you NOT see what is seen?


Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?


What did the 'chooser' choose?

Did a 'self' choose something?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Loving,

[alexmed]

It was a bit confusing and in the beginning made me feel that I'm definitely choosing everything. I did it several times during the day, each time was seems a bit better - I noticed some distinction in the process of "seeing" and "me looking at something". However, I couldn't find a clear edge between the "chooser" and "choosing".

So, my answers:

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off?

No.

Can you NOT see what is seen?

No.

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

No.

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

No.

Can you turn off seeing?

No.

What did the 'chooser' choose?

It feels like there was not too much choice. It's like trying to stop the lamp from producing the light when it's turned on (I know, it's intellectual explanation, but that's what confusing - how to SEE this correctly?).

And the feeling of 'chooser' to make eyes open/close and turn the head right/left/center clearly reports it's its own choice.

Did a 'self' choose something?

It feels like so, it chose to execute the task of turning head, opening/closing eyes. I know, you didn't ask about that, you asked if the "doer" can choose NOT see what's seen (or SEE something when it's just dark) - right. But attempts of "SEE" or "NOT SEE" look futile... I mean, again, there's no choice at all for anything and anyone in that case. It looks like a case where there's no choice by definition.

OR. I'm looking at this from the wrong corner and didn't understand the right way of "looking" at this. Could you please help me here?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

I know my conclusions above might be a bit intellectual, but I can't see the "edge" between the 'chooser' and the 'no-choice'. Maybe I need to practice a bit more?

Many thanks,
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

there's no choice at all for anything and anyone in that case

RIGHT!!!

I know my conclusions above might be a bit intellectual, but I can't see the "edge" between the 'chooser' and the 'no-choice'.

RIGHT!!! The point is to LOOK and find nothing. This can flip the mind into SEEING.

When you SEE it may be subtle or it may hit you like a ton of bricks.

It will be somewhat like seeing the optical illusions of old woman/young woman or candlestick faces:

Old Woman Young Woman.jpg (7.29 KiB) Viewed 375 times

Candlestick Faces.png (4.41 KiB) Viewed 375 times

Thank you,
Stacy

[alexmed]

Hm, yeah... Just noticed, this practice makes me relaxed when "I" try to see/not see - like something is trying to make it happen (to see "something instead"), to make a choice, but then realises that it can't and releases this, accepts all the futility of that attempt... and again, and again...

Yeah, seems I need to practice this a bit more. Will report tomorrow what I have.

Many thanks,
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Great!

Much love,

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy,
How are you?

Couldn't sleep too much last night, so all the day was a bit unfocused.

Tried to practice the Doership Exercise, to maybe catch a "flip" you mentioned.

Didn't catch any noticeable flip yet, but noticed it's became harder to find someone who would try to un-see what's seen or would see in the darkness.

Going to practice one more day, as seems it moves "the world" forward.

Also, if during the day I notice I'm a doer, then I'm focusing on that sensation/thought and it gets "un-sticked" pretty easy. I just "see" it's just a sensation+thought, especially if I stop my work and concentrate on it for a while.

At the same time I also noticed that my activity at work has raised last days, I'm working like a crazy, although don't feel I'm tired too much. I mean, yeah, body is tired, I want sleep and all, but I'm not exhausted mentally as it used to be. Less irritation, less judgements, although still same tendencies. Less pressure on my kids and on myself.

Many thanks,
Alex.