Looking for patient guide

[Damon Kamda]

There is something that hears sound, feels touch, sees color, tastes, and smells. It has a shape like what is called body and goes to work. This is being observed by the mind. This is the "me" that others point to and talk to.

Nice!
We're getting to the core of this, so pay attention and look closely at what's really going on.

Let's take it one step at a time.

"There is something that hears sound"

Clear the mind for a moment and focus the attention on the experience of sound, of hearing, from moment to moment.

Is there something that is on the receiving end of the sound, something or someone doing the hearing?
Describe to me what the experience of sound is, without resorting to theory and speculation, but just describe the raw experience. Is there a hearer of the sound?

[bayousun1]

If I plug my ears I do not hear sound so I think sound is heard by the ears and processed/labeled by the mind. So the mind names the sound but does hearing take place without the labeling? Yes I think so, as a baby hears but has no name for the sound. Are there sounds we hear but still have no name for?

[Damon Kamda]

Ok, slow down for a moment and really focus on the actual experience of hearing, without theorizing.

In hearing, is there a hearer?
Is the ear doing the hearing? Is the sound heard by the ear?

[bayousun1]

Yes sound goes into the ear. I can't hear without the ear. I can imagine what the sound sounds like with ears plugged but cannot hear the sound. Deaf people do not hear sound, they can be taught that certain vibrations have meaning.
The sound goes into the ear canal and is changed into vibration and after being taught what the sound is called we say we hear the TV or dog barking.

[Damon Kamda]

The sound goes into the ear canal and is changed into vibration and after being taught what the sound is called we say we hear the TV or dog barking.

Yes, yes, of course.
Through the functioning of the ear, hearing is possible.

That wasn't the question, however.

I can't hear without the ear.

The ear is what makes hearing possible, in the way you just described.
Yet can it be said that the sound is being heard by the ear?

We don't usually say: "My ears are hearing a beautiful piece of music", do we?
It is through the ears that hearing happens.
What we tend to say is "I am hearing a beautiful piece of music", right?

Like you write above, "I can't hear without the ear".

Now the question I posed, in hearing, is there a hear-er, is an invitation for you to look at this more closely.

What is the I that is assumed to be hearing- the recipient of the sound?

See what I'm asking here?

Before turning to thoughts and learnt theories about the process of hearing, see if you can look directly at the actual, concrete experience of hearing sound.

By which I mean: actually experiment with this. There's no use in sitting around thinking about this. Actually set up an experiment for yourself, either listening to music or going out into nature and work with the sounds you find there. Take some time to properly investigate this.

We're looking for the hear-er, the perciever of the sound. In the actual experience of hearing sounds, is there a hearer?

[bayousun1]

Hearing happens. I can turn my attention toward a specific sound to hear clearer but generally there is no effort involved. Are there sounds in dreams, how are they heard? So the same with sight. It takes no effort - eyes open things are seen, I do not have to tell myself to see or hear or taste or feel. Ears pick up all the sounds (vibration) around you and then translate this information into a form your brain can understand. Vision sends light patterns to the brain for analysis. So the brain is the processor but not actually the doer. Very interesting. I am wondering how this all came about.

[Damon Kamda]

Hearing happens. I can turn my attention toward a specific sound to hear clearer but generally there is no effort involved (...)
So the same with sight. It takes no effort - eyes open things are seen, I do not have to tell myself to see or hear or taste or feel.

Yes! Good observation.
Now can you see how the same applies to touch, taste and smell?
Can a toucher, a taster, a smeller be found in experience?
Is someone or something separate from the touching, tasting, smelling, doing it, receiving it?

Let's get back to what you wrote earlier:

There is something that hears sound, feels touch, sees color, tastes, and smells. It has a shape like what is called body and goes to work. This is being observed by the mind. This is the "me" that others point to and talk to.

(my underlining)

Now let's turn the attention to what you call the mind.
We've seen that hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling and touching simply happens.
You write that all of this is being observed by the mind.

Is the mind you?
Are you the mind?

Where, in the direct experience of the present moment, is the mind that is doing this observation?
And even the observation, the observing itself- where is that?

Is there a separation between the things apparently being observed and the observing itself?
You see what I'm asking here?

Can you find a division between what seems to be observed, the observation itself and the observer?

[bayousun1]

You write that all of this is being observed by the mind. Is the mind you?
Are you the mind?

* No I think the mind is simply the processor of signals that then someone years and years ago labeled. There is no "mini me" observer. It all just happens. Do we give power to the mind by believing it gives us control?

Having trouble with direct experience now, is there such a thing? What has the experience?
Suddenly feel frozen to chair and do not want to get up for work. WOW.

Watched some video of Gangaji which was very insightful.

[Damon Kamda]

Watched some video of Gangaji which was very insightful.

Ok. Sure.
Why not rely on your own experience here?
Where and how do you suppose insight happens?

No I think the mind is simply the processor of signals that then someone years and years ago labeled. There is no "mini me" observer. It all just happens. Do we give power to the mind by believing it gives us control?

What is the mind? Can you find it?

Having trouble with direct experience now, is there such a thing? What has the experience?

That is a really good question! Wow indeed. Find out. Look for that which has the experience.
Is there such a thing as experience AT ALL?
If there is no one or no thing to experience, where does that leave YOU?

Do you exist?

[bayousun1]

shoot went through wild ride of laughter, tears, letting go. I had a heightened sensitivity this morning came back to read your post and cried, laughed, could barely bring myself to type laughing at the words then pushed the wrong button to post hahahahahahahaha. Will go sit a spell and ........ where am I?

[Damon Kamda]

Oooh...

Something shifted, it seems.

When things have stabilized a bit, let me know what's going on, so we can move on with some more questions....

Much love!

[bayousun1]

OK now where was I.hahahaha Insight -- a connection or understanding of what the speaker was trying to convey. Mind -- an organ in this body that processes light, sound, and creates stories.
There is no event called experience, it just always is.
"Look for that which has the experience" -- I find nothing yet that "has" the experience but there are reactions felt in the body, emotions. This body became so heavy I could not move from the chair in fact I was the chair. Exhausted and emotional all day. When I spoke it was like hearing the words for the first time and I laughed.

[Damon Kamda]

Take some time to process all of this, ok? Take care...

When you're ready, take a look at the following:

What is I?

Is there a you?

[bayousun1]

There is no "I" and do not know what to call this construct that types and goes to work. If "you" does not exist what is creating this story.

[bayousun1]

Where did you go? Enjoying this sense of no "I". Present experience is fuller, lighter. Present experience is typing and drinking coffee or whatever presents itself in the moment.