It's just time to do this

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a good observation.

I noticed that what sometimes happened was a pretty simple noticing (Dog barking, orchid blooming, truck revving) quickly followed by a labeling, and then often followed by a story that related to me and what I should or shouldn't be doing about whatever I noticed or whether I liked it or was annoyed by it.

Yes, does this (what is/experience) influenced by the thoughts? Or thoughts just label it?

How many thoughts for "self" and how many "others" thoughts did you marked?

wondered if I just don't recognize what calm ordinary presence feels like? Sometimes I can be dazzled into what feels like intense presence by a sunset or a beautiful view, but maybe presence can be quieter and less showy?

Presence is a nice word. Like all other words it points to something, but it is not it :-)
Presence/what is/experience/whatevet is happening. And it is always here when look at.
It's not something special and extraordinary. It is very simple, too simple we could say and that's why it is very often overlooked. And you know this, everyone knows it and sense it. A sunset, a beautiful view, a walk in the nature, kissing a child good night, dog barking, a sip of coffee...the list is endless simply because all is presence.

The question is is there someone in the presence?
Or there is only presence

I would love to. I will be back home by 10:15 Sunday morning (which I think would be 7:15 Sunday evening your time, if that's not too late.)

Oh, that''s ok. 7:30 pm Sunday my time is perfect. I will send you an e-mail.

Much love,
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

I noticed that what sometimes happened was a pretty simple noticing (Dog barking, orchid blooming, truck revving) quickly followed by a labeling, and then often followed by a story that related to me and what I should or shouldn't be doing about whatever I noticed or whether I liked it or was annoyed by it.
Yes, does this (what is/experience) influenced by the thoughts? Or thoughts just label it?

How many thoughts for "self" and how many "others" thoughts did you marked?

Thoughts do not affect what is happening. They label. I was going to say they judge it but that is the same as labeling, labeling it good or bad, right or wrong.

I did this six different times over the past few days. Each time, I did have thoughts I labeled "others" but not nearly as often as "self" thoughts. Three or four or five self thoughts for every other thought.

Most of my "other" thoughts were just labeling thoughts, that quickly were followed by a judgement thought about the other and often about me.

"The Gerbera daisy has a lot of flowers on it" other
"I'm doing a great job keeping it happy" self
"They shouldn't be driving a big rig on our road" other
"that really pisses me off" self
"the dog is so cute" other
"What's that on his chin" other
"Should I take him to the vet and get that looked at?" self
"I don't pay close enough attention to the pets" self

Presence/what is/experience/whatevet is happening. And it is always here when look at.
It's not something special and extraordinary. It is very simple, too simple we could say and that's why it is very often overlooked. And you know this, everyone knows it and sense it. A sunset, a beautiful view, a walk in the nature, kissing a child good night, dog barking, a sip of coffee...the list is endless simply because all is presence.
The question is is there someone in the presence?
Or there is only presence

This is *so* helpful -- presence = what is, presence is what we are always experiencing.

I wanted to write that presence is what I'm already living every moment and I just cover it over with my thinking, but there's that *I* and "my" again.

Presence is what is felt whenever... again, I was going to say "I" am not lost in thinking.

And that's not right for a second reason -- that presence can obviously be here when thinking is here also.

Sorry, I'm trying to answer your question and I keep wanting to believe in that "I" and talk about it and how it's is struggling to stay in contact with presence.

Is there someone in presence? Is there someone in what is? Is there someone in experience?

No. There is no one here in the experience of presence. Presence is full, vivid, noticed sensory input (sounds, shapes, colors, temperature, pressure, and I want to say calm also, but the feeling of calm is mostly in comparison to the feeling when thinking is believed.)

Thinking when it is believed obscures awareness of presence. (Is that true? It's the explanation I reach for as to why presence isn't always registered.)

Is there someone in presence? Is there someone experiencing what is? Not until a thought arises and is believed.

I will keep looking at this, it feels very slippery, almost seen, but not quite. Or seen and moved away from very quickly.

Thank you Luchana.


oh wait, I was just "previewing" the post for spelling errors and something struck me!

"I" struggles to stay in contact with presence, not because presence is not always here, but because "I" is actually never here!

"I" have always thought "I" can sometimes connect to presence but most of the time "I" get lost in thoughts and that is what blocks "me" from being present.

But what's really happening is that "I" isn't real and never *has* connected to presence. It's just flickers out of believed-ness sometimes and then presence is seen for how it always is, and the belief/story/thought of an "I" jumps in immediately and thinks it has seen it, but really what happened is the story of I was not being told for a few moments.

This is hard to write about and hard to keep in my awareness even, but it feels true and exciting!

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a very good looking.

I did this six different times over the past few days. Each time, I did have thoughts I labeled "others" but not nearly as often as "self" thoughts. Three or four or five self thoughts for every other thought.

Most of my "other" thoughts were just labeling thoughts, that quickly were followed by a judgement thought about the other and often about me.

Nice :-) What are you begining to see here is that most thougths are related to a self, a me . Let's look now "other"


"The Gerbera daisy has a lot of flowers on it" other
Who sees this Gerbera daisy? Who is content?


"They shouldn't be driving a big rig on our road" other
Whos path is this? Who will be affected?


"the dog is so cute" other
This god is cut accroding to who? (MY point of view)


The same way if you look the rest of "other" thoughts you will see that ALL are related to the self, me, Sue. Just in a hidden way. And there is NO exception.

What comes with this?

oh wait, I was just "previewing" the post for spelling errors and something struck me!

"I" struggles to stay in contact with presence, not because presence is not always here, but because "I" is actually never here!

"I" have always thought "I" can sometimes connect to presence but most of the time "I" get lost in thoughts and that is what blocks "me" from being present.

But what's really happening is that "I" isn't real and never *has* connected to presence. It's just flickers out of believed-ness sometimes and then presence is seen for how it always is, and the belief/story/thought of an "I" jumps in immediately and thinks it has seen it, but really what happened is the story of I was not being told for a few moments.

This is hard to write about and hard to keep in my awareness even, but it feels true and exciting!

What a beautiful revelation.
Now just look :

Does the story/thoughts influence the presence/what is happening/experience?
Or they are just labeling and judging what's happening?

Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

after our meeting last night here some exercise to have fun with :-)


You will need is 15-20 minutes, a pen & paper.

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me.
Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..I am bored ...

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:

Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare the two ways to label experience-

Is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Much love,
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me.
Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..I am bored ...

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:

Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Thank you, Luchana, this was such a good exercise! I'm shocked at the difference in the way that body and mind responded.

First 10 minutes:
I am tired. My stomach's really gurgling. I should get going on that board work today. I wish school wasn't back in session, the kids are so noisy on the playground. Why do I obsess over the virus coverage? Why do I want things to get worse? What's wrong with me? I wish I had more energy. I have so much to do. I wish this plant didn't have scale mites; it's flowers are so pretty. I wish Willow didn't have to get on an airplane and fly home. Should I wear a mask in the car when I pick her up? That's too much precaution. Maybe just have the windows open a bit. the gardens need so much cleaning up. I'm running out of time to do it while the weather's nice. It's been too warm this fall. And I'm squandering all the extra warm days. (Pit of stomach unpleasant feeling.) How much of this "work" do I need to show Luchana? Am I doing this to prove "Sue" is a good student? A good looker? A good follower of instructions? (Feeling overheated and a little sick.) It's too warm in here. Or maybe this is a hot flash. I need to eat breakfast. But I ate too much this weekend. I hate feeling like foods aren't "safe" and its impossible to make the "right" choice. I don't want to eat kale for breakfast, haha. (Still overheated.) Tiny bird at the bird feeder. I'm a good person for feeding them. I can't stop feeding them though or they'll starve and I'll be a bad person, lol. Are they happy it's so warm? I should get out and exercise and take advantage of this crazy weather. I'll regret it later if I don't. It will get cold and miserable later. I'm foolish and lazy for not already having walked more often. (tired, agitated, feeling bad about myself -- a sinking feeling around my heart center.)


Second 10 minutes:

Noticing squirrel. Very big! Quieter stomach gurgles. Wondering if orchid is fragrant again. Yes! Wondering what changes to make it fragrant or not, time of day? Noticing coffee is cool. Noticing tiny soil gnat flying. Handsome squirrel! (Feeling calm.) Noticing sensations where body meets chair (energetic sinking sensation, towards the ground.) Noticing car sounds and movements on the road. Noticing quiet. Noticing far off hum. Smiling at squirrel. Arms feel pleasantly heavy. Eyes close briefly. Smile at squirrel stretching out on the railing. Wondering if it is just content, since it's not eating any seeds. (A solid, downward moving energy in throat center, arms legs. A sigh.) Wondering if squirrel is relaxed too. Hearing water running in kitchen. Thinking Steve's first meeting of the morning is over. Closing eyes. Amazement at time passing and session ending.



And, In re-reading, I realized that I *did* end up going into future and past with my noticing in the first 10 minutes. I will do this again later today and try to keep myself in just the present moment with my thoughts.

Now compare the two ways to label experience-

Is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
What is here without labels?
Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Much love,
Luchana

I'll answer these, even though I did it "wrong" hahaha.
The second was much truer than the first.

With out the I/me labels (and the future/past thoughts) there was peaceful noticing, a quiet unfolding.

Labels hugely affected the experience this time around. (maybe they will have less effect without past/future thoughts.)
They came with agitation, a lot of body reactions, they distracted me from the moment, created tension, a sense of confusion over what I "should" be doing, they made the 10 minutes seem much longer and less pleasant.

I'll try this again in a little while.

[MsBlueSky]

Okay, 10 minutes with I/me describing what I am experiencing right now:

I am swallowing the last of my ice cream cone. I am shifting in my chair. I am looking around the room. I notice the dog laying at my feet. I am thinking the dog looks adorable again. I'm scratching my cheek. I'm typing these words and hearing the fan blowing warm air in from the solar collector. I'm hearing Harri's bird call. I'm noticing a stiffness in my neck. I'm looking around. I hear kids far off on the playground. I sigh. I feel bored. I stop myself from opening a game app. I shift again. I think about other things I should be doing. I notice how sunny it is outside. I scratch my hand. I smile at the dog. I shift again and think that I've been sitting in this chair too long. I rub my arm. I type. I scratch my cheek. I notice a soil gnat again. I don't try to kill it. I look at the time and am surprised there are still 5 minutes left. I scratch my hand. I roll my neck and listen to the crackling of... vertebrae or connective tissue. I shift again in the chair. I wonder if I should have gone looking for the packages Amazon said were delivered a little while ago. I am bored. I hear a loud car off in the distance. Kiki the bird calls again. She sounds sad to me. I hear Harri's keyboard clacking upstairs. I hear Kiki's bell jingle and smile at the the thought she's trying to summon him. I squirm again in my desk chair. I look out the window again. I notice a light breeze. I hear kids shrieking. I see a small group of boys playing football on the school yard. I see a van driving by across the school yard. I feel bored. I feel a little frustrated. I look at the clock and see two minutes left. I shift in my chair again. Still typing. I smile at the dog, who looks like he's waiting for me to do something interesting. I swallow. I think that I am feeling thirsty. I sigh. I squirm again in my chair. I watch the cat walk in and make a wide berth around the dog, on her way to the sunporch. I hear the timer.

(I feel some diffuse tension across my arms and chest and legs maybe. What I call boredom and mild frustration. I feel a pain in my shoulder blade.)

10 minutes of just verbs:

Hearing a gong sound, feeling back sensations, shifting body on chair, a chest pain arises, deep breathing, eyes close momentarily, fingers typing, stillness, clicking with a back stretch, uncrossing and recrossing ankles, breathing, hearing walking, hearing door opening, hearing whistling, hearing bird bell ring, hearing bird cage door, hearing room door close, bird chirrupping. Shifting position in chair. Fingers typing. Finger pain in left hand. Stretching hand and arms overhead. Rubbing hand. Rubbing back of neck and rotating head to stretch. Typing. Looking at timer and seeing 5 minutes left. Deep breath. Closing eyes. Relaxing jaw. Typing, then leaning in to stretch back. Closing eyes again. Thinking about laying down. Swallowing. Resting chin on palm of hand on arm on table. Scratching an ear. Deep breath. Stillness. Hearing fan sound. Hearing kids calling faintly. Kids counting down numbers. Feeling an itch and scratching it on my rib. Typing. Hearing the school bell ring. Looking at timer to see two minutes left. Shifting on the chair. Switching the cross of ankles. Resting chin on hand. Closing eyes. Typing. Closing eyes again. Breathing. Noticing a change in pitch of the fan. Wondering what it correlates with. Swallowing. Typing. Closing eyes. Hearing bell ring.

(I feel languid, a little sleepy. Calm. Ready to lay down and maybe even nap.)

Is one truer? ... yes... the simple labeling without "owning" feels truer. Clearer. Cleaner.

What is here without the labels -- well, Labeling still happened in the noticing, but not ownership labeling. What was here was simple noticing. Calm awareness. More quietness. Little or no tension.

Labels put a kind of pressure onto the experiencing. The pressure of a me needing to do something. The pressure of time passing/being wasted/needing to be spent on something specific and useful. Labels came with a sense of frustration, a faint dissatisfaction with what was happening/how "I" was "doing" it.

Labeling things as me, I and mine changed how I experienced what was happening, even when I stayed in the present moment as much as I could. What was happening felt like an effort rather than an unfolding. The "doing" of a "doer" was noticed as subtle work.

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

Is one truer? ... yes... the simple labeling without "owning" feels truer. Clearer. Cleaner.

What is here without the labels -- well, Labeling still happened in the noticing, but not ownership labeling. What was here was simple noticing. Calm awareness. More quietness. Little or no tension.

You did a very good looking. Yes, labeling still happens.

Is there someone or something doing the labelling?

Labels put a kind of pressure onto the experiencing. The pressure of a me needing to do something. The pressure of time passing/being wasted/needing to be spent on something specific and useful. Labels came with a sense of frustration, a faint dissatisfaction with what was happening/how "I" was "doing" it.

I understand. There is a frustration, because there is a believe that I. me, Sue is doing thеsе particular actions.

But is this so in reality?

Labeling things as me, I and mine changed how I experienced what was happening, even when I stayed in the present moment as much as I could. What was happening felt like an effort rather than an unfolding. The "doing" of a "doer" was noticed as subtle work.

Let's investigate actions in the moment when and HOW exactly they are happening with a simplе exercise.

Take two glases with different beverages (milk and water, or juise and coke, or coffe and tea). It could be also something else..
Put these glasses in front of you. Close your eyes for a minuте, than look at glasses and just choose one.
As you do this notice whether a 'self' does it. Also notice if there are many or any moments in the whole procedure of taking glasses, puting something in them (etc) when 'you' control the process?

Watch like a hawk.

How the decision is made which glass to choose?

Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?

Do ‘you’ choose?

Can a chooser be located?

If yes, where exactly?


Also investigate this not only during the exercise, but in the midst of the everyday life - for example while making a list of errands or some math to pay the bills etc - examine. Each time when there is a feeling that I, Sue do this or this - look.

Is this true?


Have fun.

Much love,
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

Is there someone or something doing the labelling?

I can't find it. It's not "me," whatever I used to think that meant, doing the labeling. Labeling is arising. The noticing happens of the labeling. There is no labeler. There is no noticer, either, somehow. Noticing happens.

Yesterday, I drove down to see my mom and decided to practice labeling with just verbs. Steering. pushing the pedal. noticing driver passing. Thinking that driver was breaking the law and might get in trouble. Remembered you saying that even the thoughts about the other are about the self.

Saw that many different thoughts and judgments could have arisen in that moment of being passed illegally on the road, but the thought that did arise was one that reinforced a story of me -- me as the one who follows the rules, me as the one who is afraid of being punished for breaking the rules. Thoughts arise to reinforce a narrow story of self. Yes.

And no thoughts are needed to drive. "I" saw that even when attention stays focused on driving (instead of being lost in thoughts and wondering how I got from Point A to Point B without remembering doing the driving) driving is just happening. "I" is not making driving happen.

(It was a cool but momentary aha. "I" still seems to be here. Which is perfect for this next exercise from you.)

Let's investigate actions in the moment when and HOW exactly they are happening with a simplе exercise.

Take two glases with different beverages (milk and water, or juise and coke, or coffe and tea). It could be also something else..
Put these glasses in front of you. Close your eyes for a minuте, than look at glasses and just choose one.
As you do this notice whether a 'self' does it. Also notice if there are many or any moments in the whole procedure of taking glasses, puting something in them (etc) when 'you' control the process?

Watch like a hawk.

How the decision is made which glass to choose?

Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?

Do ‘you’ choose?

Can a chooser be located?

If yes, where exactly?


Also investigate this not only during the exercise, but in the midst of the everyday life - for example while making a list of errands or some math to pay the bills etc - examine. Each time when there is a feeling that I, Sue do this or this - look.

Is this true?

Okay.

A glass of diet coke and a cup of coffee.

So much chatter, so many thoughts happening about which should "I" choose. Thoughts arguing with each other. No, not arguing, just different thoughts coming up one after another. and a sense of intense frustration/body tension in arms and throat. No choosing happening yet. So much mental activity that when the moment of drinking comes it is unexpected and without a do-er. Coffee is being drunk. Thoughts are still happening about cold soda and warm coffee. Noticing is surprised it cannot find a chooser. A feeling of frustration still, as thoughts continue to appear about coffee or soda.

Wow, so much energy being spent on trying to decide when it's not even necessary, when no decision happened! (No wonder I feel tired so often!)

I will keep looking at this.

Thank you, Luchana <3

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a good observation.
Can you please answer to the questions one by one?
Here they are again. It's not needed to do the exercise again, just look in the small activities furing the day. Life offers thousand possibilities :-)

Watch like a hawk.

How the decision is made (which glass to choose)?

Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?

Do ‘you’ choose?

Can a chooser be located?

If yes, where exactly?



Much love.
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

How the decision is made (which glass to choose)?

Hi Luchana!

the decision arises. (to look at the phone messages. to fill up the glass with water. to not eat a piece of the doughnut when walking by this time.) The action occurs. (or doesn't.)

There is a brief flurry of thinking in the moment afterwards ("you shouldn't have looked!" nothing noticeable regarding the water glass, a mildly nauseating mix of confused thinking about sugar, health, and healthy eating when walking by the doughnut box.) But the thinking happens just after the action does or does not happen. Not before.

So, sometimes the action flows smoothly.

Sometimes there is a feeling of paralysis, while thinking argues with itself, and no action seems to happen while I watch for it and wait, until, suddenly it does (and not because the voices stopped arguing with each other or suddenly agreed. Just something happens finally.

Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?

There is never a moment of choice (and it feels really hard to see this, to see what is *not* happening, the no-choosing.)

All the thinking that is happening about the next apparent decision feels so tiring, dizzying even. Watching the thinking ping-pong as it tries to make something happen and nothing happens, is really unpleasant (at least right now).

Do ‘you’ choose?

No. What even is "me" that could try to choose? A particular camera angle on reality unfolding? "I" am watching what happens in "my" life, and listening to a stream of thoughts commenting on it.

Can a chooser be located?

No. I have the idea that a watcher, an observer can be found in the general area of this body, but no chooser.

If yes, where exactly?

I will answer this one for the watcher that feels like it could be found.

Where can the watcher be found exactly?

It also, is not found, just assumed, just hypothesized. There is no watcher; there is a sense of a "perspective", a particular point of view of what is unfolding, but not a separate watcher watching.

Thank you Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a very good looking.

All the thinking that is happening about the next apparent decision feels so tiring, dizzying even. Watching the thinking ping-pong as it tries to make something happen and nothing happens, is really unpleasant (at least right now).

Yes, it will feel like this until it isn't.
The questions is
To what or whom is tiring and unpleasant?

No. I have the idea that a watcher, an observer can be found in the general area of this body, but no chooser.

I will answer this one for the watcher that feels like it could be found.

Where can the watcher be found exactly?

It also, is not found, just assumed, just hypothesized. There is no watcher; there is a sense of a "perspective", a particular point of view of what is unfolding, but not a separate watcher watching.

Good, lets look together once more.

LOOK very careful:

Where can be this observer exactly?

Is it somewhere OUTSIDE of the story as an observer - it just observe, untouched by everything?

Is the observer separated from what is being observed?

Let's hunt for this one.

Is it somewhere inside the head?
Behind the eyes perhaps?
Or in the middle of the head?
Or at the forehead?
Or the top of the head?
Can you point to the location with millimeter or a quarter of inch precision?



Like you've already suspected :

The idea of an observer IS the self itself.
Observer = self
So it's not about becoming or staying as a background observer. That would be the SAME self just in a disguise.

Can you see this?

Thank you Luchana

You are most welcome and I thank you.

Much love,
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

The questions is
To what or whom is tiring and unpleasant?

I do not know.

The first time I read this I laughed out loud because it felt obvious that the answer was no one, but I am back at the computer to answer your post properly now, and I'm re-creating the experience of waiting for a decision to arise in order to look closely.

I can feel the tension and irritation of watching for the "self" to make some decision happen, but asking "who or what is feeling it" gets... nothing, a blankness. And then more feelings of frustration and tension because I can't "see" any "who", which then requires asking what is feeling more frustrated about not being able to find the answer?

There's a sense of tension draining away in the face of the blankness, the nothing as the answer again.

Where can be this observer exactly?

Where is the "observer" that is watching my life unfold? Inside my skull? behind my eyeballs? I want to answer that way, but I see those are literally two of your next questions.

Ooh, I feel really stuck on this one. How can there not be an observer seeing through my eyes?

Okay, wait. An observer in my skull or behind my eyes would be so separate from everything else, and it just doesn't feel like that. It can't be in my skull or behind my eyes. It just isn't. It feels so much bigger than that.

(I just walked off to make some tea and wash dishes while it steeped. Watching the doing happening, no doer. No..... watcher. Just everything within range of perception unfolding without a separate watcher watching. Is there anything outside of range of perception? Not that I can say or prove.)

Is it somewhere OUTSIDE of the story as an observer - it just observe, untouched by everything?

No! Whatever awareness is, it suffuses everything. It is not outside of or apart from anything. I don't know how I know that, but... that's how it feels. There is no separation between aware-ness and everything in the field of awareness. Awareness is same as what is unfolding.

Is the observer separated from what is being observed?

No. There's no observer. There just isn't when looked at closely. (how did that shift even happen? Will it persist? It feels like a perceptual trick, lol!)

Is it somewhere inside the head?

Hah, no! what a crazy small place for anything to live! And perceiving just feels much bigger than that, as big as sensory input at least.

Behind the eyes perhaps?

Not at all. Now that seems like just a silly idea and I'm not even sure what the eyes are anyway, suddenly.

Or in the middle of the head?

No, again that seems like such a tiny space and not at all separate from everything apparently around it, at least in awareness.

Or at the forehead?

this sounds as silly now as asking if the watcher is in my elbow, haha!

Or the top of the head?

nope! Whatever is aware is much bigger than any piece of this body and bigger than all of the body together. I don't know how much bigger.

Can you point to the location with millimeter or a quarter of inch precision?

Nope. Suddenly the everything else feels more real and more really "me" than the body I thought I was.

This feels so odd and untethered, but not unpleasant. Thank you, Luchana. I will continue to look at how things unfold here.

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a good looking.

And then more feelings of frustration and tension because I can't "see" any "who", which then requires asking what is feeling more frustrated about not being able to find the answer?

And what if there is no answer, because there is simply no one there?

:-)

Ooh, I feel really stuck on this one. How can there not be an observer seeing through my eyes?

Okay, wait. An observer in my skull or behind my eyes would be so separate from everything else, and it just doesn't feel like that. It can't be in my skull or behind my eyes. It just isn't. It feels so much bigger than that.

(I just walked off to make some tea and wash dishes while it steeped. Watching the doing happening, no doer. No..... watcher. Just everything within range of perception unfolding without a separate watcher watching. Is there anything outside of range of perception? Not that I can say or prove.)

Great! Let's go deeper.

Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' ?
Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?
Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

This feels so odd and untethered, but not unpleasant. Thank you, Luchana. I will continue to look at how things unfold here.

yep, keep looking this is the key :-)


Take your time
Much love,
Luchana

[MsBlueSky]

Hi Luchana :)

This exercise was especially hard -- difficult to make mind stay with it and focus on it.

With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' ?

I covered my eyes with my hands, just to stop thoughts arguing that it wasn't dark enough to be called blackness.
Even then, it wasn't "black." It didn't feel uniformly anything. There was a sense of some shading or tonality or some sort of vague stimulation of optical neurons. I don't know.

Could I confirm that what is experienced is blackness? No. Why? I'm not sure why I say that "no". Because I don't know what blackness is, what's black enough, maybe? Because I don't feel like I can "see" what I am not seeing because I'm not using my eyes?

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

Nooooo. I hesitate because I am not sure I'm even seeing blackness.

Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No. There is awareness, even without using the eyes to see, but I can't find where it is separate from the blackness/no seeing.

Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

There is no person witnessing the blackness. Without the use of the body to "see" the blackness, it is much easier to feel the interpenetration of awareness and what is here. (This is still a concept that mind is fighting, the lack of a boundary between perceiver and perceived, but it's easier to sense in this exercise.)

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No see-er can be found.

Ugh. I can force myself to type that and admit that it is true in my direct experience, and still mind is squirming away from the idea that could be true, still fighting it.

I will try the exercise again in the morning and see if not being tired changes my ability to stay with this.

Thank you, Luchana. I am grateful for your continued accompaniment!

[Luchana]

Hi Sue,

you did a good looking.

No. There is awareness, even without using the eyes to see, but I can't find where it is separate from the blackness/no seeing.

How do you know that there is awareness?
Is it possible to see or hear awareness?
How awareness is experienced exactly?

Ugh. I can force myself to type that and admit that it is true in my direct experience, and still mind is squirming away from the idea that could be true, still fighting it.

The resistance is welcome to resist :-)

But does this change the simple fact?

Now let's deeg deeper.

Let's move on to opening the eyes now.

Again, address this very simply - The 'seeing' sense only for the moment.

With eyes open, a world of objects appears . . . a room . . . a computer screen etc

What you can specifically see isn't of interest here, and whatever it is, I am simply going to refer to it as 'what can be seen'.
This might be a little more tricky, but give it some consideration.

With eyes open, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'what can be seen' as I mentioned?

Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'what can be seen'?

Can what is witnessing 'what can be seen' be found?

Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a Sue be found that is witnessing 'what can be seen'? Or is there just simply 'what can be seen' to be found?
What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Take you time

Thank you, Luchana. I am grateful for your continued accompaniment!

You are most welcome, I will be here as long as it is needed.

Much love,
Luchana