The Gate

Good, Mal!

That is exactly how SEEING no self will differ from imagining there is a thing called "self."

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Post this list.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

Relax, have fun. Looking forward to your replies.

Hello Stacy

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

Post this list.

Exercise 1. Using “I”.
I am sitting on a chair.
I hear the sound of the heater.
I am looking out the window.
I smell food cooking.
I think about lunch
Throughout this first exercise there was bodily tension most likely brought about by being in a cold room.

Post this list, too.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

Exercise 2 Omitting the “I”.
Sitting on a chair.
Hearing sound of the heater.
Looking out of the window
Smell of food cooking.
Thinking about lunch.


Your Questions are as follows.


Question 1.

I1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second exercise where the I was omitted seemed truer. Experience does not require a self to register what is happening. What is happening continues to happen independent of a belief in a self.


Question 2.

2. What is here without labels?

The experiences listed in this reply are present, make sense and are occurring without labels. The self-referencing “I” appears superfluous.

Question 3.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels are a human construct and cannot affect experience.


Question 4.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? Describe this.

The most noticeable bodily sensation was tenseness around the shoulder area, most likely caused by the cold room and a pain in the lower back from an uncomfortable chair. I could not distinguish differences in the body as a consequence of completing the two exercises.

Hi Mal,

The most noticeable bodily sensation was tenseness around the shoulder area, most likely caused by the cold room and a pain in the lower back from an uncomfortable chair. I could not distinguish differences in the body as a consequence of completing the two exercises.

While the cold room may have had an effect, something else is more important here.

Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved.? As you remember that time, please scan your body for any tension similar to what you experienced in the exercise.

Also, experiment with checking the body sensations while you do the exercise without the word "I." You may find less tension, but check for yourself. Let me know what you find.

You see,

“Even those of us who pay only lip service to the truth know what it is, deep down in our hearts. And we all believe in it, and know it when we see it. Even the best rationalization can fool only the surface mind that manufactures it; there is something beneath, call it the heart or the conscience, that knows better. It tenses up like a stiff neck muscle when you lie, in proportion to the size of the lie, and if it stiffens enough it can kill you for revenge. Ask Richard Corey.

Most people seem to me, in my cynical moments, to keep things stabilized at about the discomfort of a dislocated shoulder or a tooth about to abscess. They trade honesty off in small chunks for pleasure, and wonder that their lives hold so little joy. Joy is incompatible with tensed shoulders and a stiff neck.

You become uneasy with people in direct proportion to how many lies you have to keep track of in their presence.”

~ Spider Robinson


Loving,

Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved.? As you remember that time, please scan your body for any tension similar to what you experienced in the exercise.

Also, experiment with checking the body sensations while you do the exercise without the word "I." You may find less tension, but check for yourself. Let me know what you find.

If there are bodily sensations present as a consequence of investigating the “I” free statements, then they are too subtle register in my awareness. What is registered in awareness is an open, relaxed mind that naturally accepted the omission of the “I”.


This, in turn, has the effect of bringing an unexpected level of intimacy if I could use that word, to the mundane activities listed in the past exercises. I realize that this response has little to do with your question about bodily sensations but was worthwhile including as it feels authentic as I write this even if it is off the mark.

Great, Mal!

If there are bodily sensations present as a consequence of investigating the “I” free statements, then they are too subtle register in my awareness. What is registered in awareness is an open, relaxed mind that naturally accepted the omission of the “I”.

Open & relaxed are also body Sensations. If you had no body (well, you don't, but that's another pointer), where would you experience these? Can a mind actually feel these?

I suspect you're confusing mind & body here, having a bit of a challenge to untangle them..

This, in turn, has the effect of bringing an unexpected level of intimacy if I could use that word, to the mundane activities listed in the past exercises. I realize that this response has little to do with your question about bodily sensations but was worthwhile including as it feels authentic as I write this even if it is off the mark.

This could be very important. "Intimacy..." could you find some additional words to describe it, preferably ones indicating Seeing, Hearing, Touch/ Sensation, Smelling or Tasting?


Loving,

Hello Stacy

Question 1

Open & relaxed are also body Sensations. If you had no body (well, you don't, but that's another pointer), where would you experience these? Can a mind actually feel these?

This is an excellent question with a fair degree of difficulty I suspect, so here goes. The descriptive words, “open and relaxed” appeared in awareness. I see awareness as belonging to the mental processes of the brain and I see the brain as the headquarters of the senses, but I am no expert in this area. I am not sure that openness is a bodily sensation as it seems attitudinal. However, when I mentioned “relaxed” it did have a bodily component as there was an absence of tension or contraction and the notion of no separation between body and mind in some or perhaps many instances is likely I expect.

Question 2

This could be very important. "Intimacy..." could you find some additional words to describe it, preferably ones indicating Seeing, Hearing, Touch/ Sensation, Smelling or Tasting?

Generally, after breakfast I wash the dishes. This is normally considered a chore and by now is habitual with bare attention paid to the task. Often there are thoughts about more pleasurable activities that can be engaged in and this is often an incentive to do the task quickly.
This morning I tried to approach the same activity with a different perception, that of no self (if that is a perception). It was pleasurable submerging hands into warm soapy water with a faint smell of the lime scented detergent. Using a scrubber, each item was washed and held over the sink to drain excess water and suds. The eyes took all of this in and there was a momentary glimpse of witnessing this activity but this may have been imagination. Bringing attention to this mundane activity in a “me” free situation seemed to elevate this task. The work was done with no personal supervisor. With the senses engaged in this way made a more intimate experience as if living closer to life. Sometimes words are inadequate.

Perfect, Mal. Excellent experiment in dish washing. One of my teachers described a no-self awareness as a kind of "stepping in and back." Yes, witnessing & noticing there is no one doing dishwashing.

It is similar to "Headless Way" (and many other pointers. )

Try this:

Headless Way

Taken from The Headless Way

Have a look around you. You can see colours of the room, of your 'feet’, of your ‘knees’, of your ‘chest’ and perhaps of your 'hands'.

Now point a finger towards the place where others see your head and face.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head? Do you see anything at all there - any colours, shapes, or any movement? Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colours or shapes there? What do you find?

You're on the right track.

Loving,

Hello Stacy
Question.
Hi Stacey

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head? Do you see anything at all? Are there any colours or shapes there? What do you find?

The finger pointing outwards points at various objects are confirmed visually in the conventional way of looking. When the finger is pointed towards the face the conventional way of directing my gaze at objects no longer applies as the object has disappeared. The head appears to be replaced by space or nothingness , so no colour, no shapes , no anything apart from space or maybe spaciousness could be another term.

Thank you for the encouraging words.

Regards Mal

Thank you, Mal

How does it feel to see no head, just space or spaciousness?

Loving,

Hello Stacy

How does it feel to see no head, just space or spaciousness?

The body and mind were relaxed as there is no tension evident and nothing appears to be forced. I was involved in zen practice for many years and zen makes much of emptiness not that I encountered it. The headless exercise gave rise to the notion of emptiness but this could be imagination. But the space formally occupied by the head appeared to have no boundaries and therefore limitless. I am also aware that delusion and illusion are pitfalls that can be mistaken for insights and I don’t, want to fool either of us. So to sum up, the exercise revealed a space without limits. I was unable to clarify if this space or emptiness contained everything, or just the potential to contain everything. You may be tempted to ask for more information but this is a mystery to me at present

Good morning,

Yes, mystery is all there is, no matter what labels & stories mind makes up. Let's get clearer about that.

Try this pointer:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

Hello Stacy

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

However, is an apple actually known?

Simply gazing at it, the mind labels the familiar object an apple. The labelling mind cannot see, smell or taste what has been visualised. To truly reveal the apple in all of its’ “appleness” direct experience though the agency of the senses will need to be applied. Direct experience is always reality based and as you have said, is always here. Thought is always clamouring away too, but does not necessarily discriminate between reality and non reality and this is why direct experience transcends thought. The evidence that an apple exists rests upon the proof and truth of actual experience.

Hi,

Partly because I nearly always reply on my phone, I strongly prefer that you Quote one question, then Reply; another Question, then Reply. It's much easier for me

I'll reply from my laptop later.

Thank,

Please re-read Colored Socks from earlier.

This reply comes purely from *thinking,* not from SEEING at all.

Please do the exercise again. Try to LOOK, not think. Treat it like a meditation, not an essay for school.

Quote each question separately, and reply underneath.

Have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers? " You can download it from Resources, Books above. It will give good examples of what we're going for & inspiring examples of others who SAW.

Thank you,

Hello Stacy

Please do the exercise again. Try to LOOK, not think. Treat it like a meditation, not an essay for school.

Thanks for the feedback. I have nothing to offer right now. I intend to take up your suggestion and read the book as nothing seems clear. I might need a day or two to read the book if you are agreeable. I could not find the reference to coloured socks.

Quote each question separately, and reply underneath

Will do so in the future
Regards Mal