Rio's corner

[rio]

All that is known of the experience is AE of sound, ie all that is actual is sound, so where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

Yes, there is just AE of sound.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a refrigerator humming?

No

Without thought overlaying the sound with a label and story about a refrigerator humming…how can this be known?

cannot be known

So, applying that same looking....is it not thought that suggests the sound is a refrigerator humming? Without thought, can this be known? Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a humming fridge?

The AE of sound is simply the AE of sound. It is the AE of thought which label's it.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

I understand the desire to race through this exploration as a means to an end, however, it will be more beneficial to you if you go slow. Racing to an end doesn’t mean that realisation will happen…it is the careful LOOKING at what is being pointed at that does this, so taking your time LOOKING is a good thing.

Also, carefully read what I write and read it several times. Do the exercises more than once and do it with different things. For example, listen to another sound and notice how thought overlays the sound with a label (thought) + thoughts about what the sound is. Investigate the validity of the thoughts. Can whatever the thought is suggesting the sound is (eg traffic)…can it actually be found, or all that known is the sound itself + label/thoughts about the sound. Can, traffic actually be found in/as actual experience?

All that is known of the experience is AE of sound, ie all that is actual is sound, so where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

Yes, there is just AE of sound.

You didn’t answer the question in its entirety.
Where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

Read the following carefully to see what is being pointed at.

The words/label 'refrigerator humming' is AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming
The sound labelled as 'refrigerator humming' is AE of sound and not AE of a refrigerator humming.
The thoughts about 'refrigerator humming' are AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a refrigerator humming?

No

So can a refrigerator be found in/as actual experience?

Without thought overlaying the sound with a label and story about a refrigerator humming…how can this be known?

cannot be known

So is a refrigerator known in your direct actual experience, or only thoughts about something called a refrigerator?

So, applying that same looking....is it not thought that suggests the sound is a refrigerator humming? Without thought, can this be known? Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is a humming fridge?

The AE of sound is simply the AE of sound. It is the AE of thought which label's it.

Yes. This is important to see and understand.

Kay

[rio]

I understand the desire to race through this exploration as a means to an end, however, it will be more beneficial to you if you go slow. Racing to an end doesn’t mean that realisation will happen…it is the careful LOOKING at what is being pointed at that does this, so taking your time LOOKING is a good thing.
Also, carefully read what I write and read it several times. Do the exercises more than once and do it with different things.

Thanks. I am going to keep this in mind throughout the process.

Read the following carefully to see what is being pointed at.
The words/label 'refrigerator humming' is AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming
The sound labelled as 'refrigerator humming' is AE of sound and not AE of a refrigerator humming.
The thoughts about 'refrigerator humming' are AE of thought and not AE of a refrigerator humming

Where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

So can a refrigerator be found in/as actual experience?

I redid the exercises a few times and am having difficulty with this pointer.
I am not sure when you mean 'refrigerator' are you talking about the label 'refrigerator' or the thing in itself.

So is a refrigerator known in your direct actual experience, or only thoughts about something called a refrigerator?

only thoughts about something called a refrigerator.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

So can a refrigerator be found in/as actual experience?

I redid the exercises a few times and am having difficulty with this pointer.
I am not sure when you mean 'refrigerator' are you talking about the label 'refrigerator' or the thing in itself.

This is for you to find out from LOOKING! If I told you, then its simply a mental exercise and mental exercises are of no use.
We both know that the label 'refrigerator' is known as AE of thought, and appears automatically when hearing that particular sound...so I am asking can an actual refrigerator be found in your direct actual experience....remembering that we are only looking at AE of sound with all of this....that is why it is important to read and answer ALL questions in blue....

....so I want you to go back to my last post and reread it and answer ALL questions that are in blue ...reading the pointers carefully and then looking very carefully at what is being pointed to....please don't miss any.

Kay

[rio]

Where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

There is just AE of sound and the word/label/thought/thing in itself - 'refrigerator' cannot be found inside sound.

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

'refrigerator humming ' is contained as a label inside the AE of thought. There is no actual AE of refrigerator humming, just AE of sound and AE of thoughts.

So can a refrigerator be found in/as actual experience?

No. Actual experience is just AE of sound and AE of thought.

So is a refrigerator known in your direct actual experience, or only thoughts about something called a refrigerator?

Refrigerator is not known in direct actual experience. It is only inside the AE of thoughts.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Where in sound can a refrigerator be found?

There is just AE of sound and the word/label/thought/thing in itself - 'refrigerator' cannot be found inside sound.

What ‘thing in itself’ are you referring to exactly?

Yes, a refrigerator cannot be found IN sound because sound is not a container (nor is colour, smell, taste or sensation), they are all empty of ‘things’.

So what is actual experience (ie what is known) is words/label (which are thought) + sound + thoughts about a humming refrigerator, however, can a refrigerator humming be found in your direct actual experience?

'refrigerator humming ' is contained as a label inside the AE of thought. There is no actual AE of refrigerator humming, just AE of sound and AE of thoughts.

Yes…no actual experience can be experienced of a refrigerator that is humming. There is sound which thought describes as humming…but no actual object refrigerator can be found as actual experience.

Labels and thoughts are synonymous ie they are the same thing - AE of thought. A label is simply a thought. Why I qualify it is so that you can see how thought immediately label objects…you have no choice in this... to see how raw experience is overlaid (veiled) with labels + thoughts about what the labels are pointing to, ie description of object, what its purpose is etc. We have to become aware of actual experience prior to labelling and thoughts.

All thoughts are empty of content, however, thoughts either point to AE or point to thoughts about thought. For example, sensation 'brrbrr' = thought "cold". Thought pointing to nothing other than more thought, which is the content of the thought "cold", is the meaning of what "cold" is.

So can a refrigerator be found in/as actual experience?

No. Actual experience is just AE of sound and AE of thought.

Lovely, yes.

So is a refrigerator known in your direct actual experience, or only thoughts about something called a refrigerator?

Refrigerator is not known in direct actual experience. It is only inside the AE of thoughts.

Yes, refrigerator is only known as AE of thought.

So, we have looked at AE with sound only. Let’s add the raw experience of sensation to the mix now.

This experiment is done by placing your hand on a table.

Notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear about the hand and the table and put them aside ie ignore them. It may take a little time sitting still to be able to feel sensations, so you will have to be persistent and patient with yourself. Putting aside ALL thought and images of the hand and table is also challenging…however, it can be done.

So, just focusing on sensation alone…

…sit quietly somewhere where you won’t be disturbed, and taking all the time you need, take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and….

Place a hand on the table and close your eyes.
(remember to put aside all thoughts, ideas and mental images of the hand and table)

Now 'go to' the sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on table' and how many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and table) or is there just the actual experience of sensation?

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a hand?

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a table?

Without thoughts and mental images, does the sensation suggest in any way that it is of a hand, and that of a table? In other words, does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a hand on a table?

Please do this exercise several times throughout your day.

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,
I need some more time to explore the sensation's exercise you gave me.

What ‘thing in itself’ are you referring to exactly?

I was referring to refrigerator as a thing/object.

We have to become aware of actual experience prior to labelling and thoughts

thoughts either point to AE or point to thoughts about thought

thank you.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

I need some more time to explore the sensation's exercise you gave me.

For the moment, I would like you to answer the following before you move onto the sensation exercise. It seems you are still confused about actual experience and thoughts about actual experience.

Thoughts in and of themselves do not contain any experience, if they did then you would be able to taste the word 'sweet', hear the word 'thunder' and you'd get wet when the thought 'water' appeared. The only actual experience thought contains is more thought (which is AE of thought), and all thought content is fiction and cannot be found as actual experience.

What ‘thing in itself’ are you referring to exactly?

I was referring to refrigerator as a thing/object.

So the questions was: where in sound can a fridge be found? You intimated that you see that no refrigerator can be found in sound...and yet your response was "There is just AE of sound and the word/label/thought/thing in itself". ..so where does the 'thing itself', the 'refrigerator' fit into AE? Can you find a refrigerator in your direct experience when the humming sound is heard?

Look carefully at what is being pointed to here:-
Where in the actual experience of thought, (ie the thought itself, in this case "refrigerator"), can a refrigerator be found? Bring the thought "refrigerator" to mind....can you find an actual refrigerator in the thought itself, or is the thought simply a bunch of letters that make up a word? In other words, does the thought "refrigerator" actually contain a refrigerator, or does the thought "refrigerator" contain more thoughts about something called a "refrigerator"?

Does the 'humming' sound actually contain a refrigerator?

If not, can an actual refrigerator be found in sound or thought, or is the refrigerator just a story about the raw experience of sound and the face value of thought?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

so where does the 'thing itself', the 'refrigerator' fit into AE? Can you find a refrigerator in your direct experience when the humming sound is heard?

the humming sound is just AE of sound. It then gets labeled as refrigerator humming(AE of thought). I cannot find a refrigerator in my direct experience when the humming sound is heard.

Where in the actual experience of thought, (ie the thought itself, in this case "refrigerator"), can a refrigerator be found?

The AE of thought is the word refrigerator, pointing to other thoughts.There is no actual refrigerator to be found.

Bring the thought "refrigerator" to mind....can you find an actual refrigerator in the thought itself, or is the thought simply a bunch of letters that make up a word?

the thought is simply a bunch of alphabets. Nothing else in there, it's empty of content.

In other words, does the thought "refrigerator" actually contain a refrigerator, or does the thought "refrigerator" contain more thoughts about something called a "refrigerator"?

The thought 'refrigerator' doesn't actually contain a refrigerator but simply points to more thoughts about 'refrigerator'.

Does the 'humming' sound actually contain a refrigerator?

No. It's simply an AE of sound and does not contain any refrigerator.

If not, can an actual refrigerator be found in sound or thought, or is the refrigerator just a story about the raw experience of sound and the face value of thought?

the Actual refrigerator which I was calling 'the thing in itself', can neither be found in the AE of sound, nor in the AE of thought.
'refrigerator' is just the face value of the AE of thought, overlaying the underlying raw experience of sound.

thanks.
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio.....lovely clarity in your responses. I await your post re the 'hand on table' exercise. :)

Kay

[rio]

Now 'go to' the sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on table' and how many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and table) or is there just the actual experience of sensation?

I do not find any things in the AE of sensation.There is just AE of sensation. The two things(hand and table) and not present in the AE of sensation.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a hand?

No, the sensation itself does not suggest that there is a hand.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that there is a table?

No, the sensation itself does not suggest that there is a table

Without thoughts and mental images, does the sensation suggest in any way that it is of a hand, and that of a table? In other words, does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a hand on a table?

The sensation does not suggest that it is of a hand or that it is of a table . 'Hand' and 'table' get overlayed later on by AE of thought. Also Mental images of the the 'hand' and 'table' are not part of the actual sensation.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Nice looking with the 'hand on table' exercise.

Without thoughts and mental images, does the sensation suggest in any way that it is of a hand, and that of a table? In other words, does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a hand on a table?

The sensation does not suggest that it is of a hand or that it is of a table . 'Hand' and 'table' get overlayed later on by AE of thought. Also Mental images of the the 'hand' and 'table' are not part of the actual sensation.

Terrific!
So now I would like you to do the exercise but with 'hand on fridge' this time, and tell me if an actual refrigerator can be as actual experience, or only AE of/as sensation?


Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

So now I would like you to do the exercise but with 'hand on fridge' this time, and tell me if an actual refrigerator can be as actual experience, or only AE of/as sensation?

There is only AE of sensation and It is not suggesting anything about a fridge or about a hand. An actual refrigerator is not an actual experience, there is only AE of/as sensation. An actual refrigerator cannot be found in the AE of sensation.

thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hey Rio,

So now I would like you to do the exercise but with 'hand on fridge' this time, and tell me if an actual refrigerator can be as actual experience, or only AE of/as sensation?

There is only AE of sensation and It is not suggesting anything about a fridge or about a hand. An actual refrigerator is not an actual experience, there is only AE of/as sensation. An actual refrigerator cannot be found in the AE of sensation.

Terrific!

Okay....so let's deviate from the refrigerator by using a piece of fruit for the next exercise. Let's see if any actual objects can be found in actual experience, when visually noticing what thought calls an 'object'....so we are looking at AE of colour only in the following exercise.

Notice how quickly labelling and interpretation happen.

For this exercise you will need an apple or any other piece of fruit will do.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
So what is known for sure is the actual experience of colour and the actual experience of thought.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and face value of thought.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience - what you know for sure and is always here.

The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

I only find AE of color, followed by AE of thought labelling the AE of color as 'apple'. There is no AE of an actual apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

'apple' cannot be found in actual experience. There is AE of color which doesn't suggest anything about an apple.
The AE of thoughts contain/are just labels/words about an 'apple', but no actual apple to be found in there either.

However, is an apple actually known?

An actual apple is not known.
AE of color is known directly, AE of taste is known directly, AE of sensation is known directly, AE of smell is known directly. None of these 4 AE's (color,taste,sensation,smell) suggest anything about an apple.
Then there is AE of thoughts known at face value.
There is AE of thought (label apple) which is also known directly. Then there is AE of other thoughts (about apple) which is also known directly.

thanks
Rio