Things have changed in *me* but I need advice.

[Kiwi]

Hi Michael
A milestone post, that last one of yours. Well done! I want to comment on what you wrote to perhaps shed some light on that which is confusing

... just a recognition of what has always been there - my nothingness. ... quiet and still. Thoughts did not stop but became less frequent … not like dead air- but like a gentle breeze, drifting slightly but not really moving anywhere, … but my awareness of self was more subtle and less demanding.

Let’s examine these descriptors a bit – what are they describing?

You are reading these words on your computer screen. You are aware of them. At the same time you are probably aware of other things going on around you – perhaps the sound of other people moving about, or the feeling of numbness in your bottom as you sit on a hard chair, perhaps a feeling of excitement within. In other words, there are a myriad of things going on that mostly you don’t notice, but you realize that they are there when you focus on them. That focusing makes you aware. That awareness is your true essence.That awareness is a witnessing of what is happening right now around you. It is what you are. When you describe “like a gentle breeze”, quiet and still”, “more subtle and less demanding” you are verbalizing what you are witnessing – you are becoming aware of the witnessing awareness that has always been there. You have simply become consciously aware of awareness. You are that awareness – so you have become consciously aware of your true essence.

Your true essence is also my true essence, so awareness is an expression of one. We are apparently separate individuals going about our different lives, yet as awareness we are both One. All seven billion of us.

I am this "projecting out", this being who peers out at the world with nothing much behind it! (Indeed possibly nothing at all)

You are awareness – always have been, and always will be. Awakening is simply the “WOW” moment when you become conscious of your true nature. This is a monumental realization and it takes some time to realize the implications of what it means. The delicious paradox is that once you realize that, everything seems to change yet nothing seems to change, as the following paragraphs attest

I began to identify with this nothing thing and enjoyed being whatever-it-is! It floated about with not many thoughts but was calm and at peace with itself. it required nothing and didn't really interfere with my daily life but just wanted me to remain alive and "in the moment". Fab! and quite surprising it still makes me chuckle with how available, simple and obvious it all is.

Hallelujah – the mystery manifests!! The “I am awareness” conscious of itself

Anyway... now back to reality as my ego wasn't going to go way forever was it!! No - I've fallen to earth again. It now appears that the ego is trying to reclaim its throne back and somehow "I'm"stuck in the middle!

The “I am a person” reappears and the mystery continues. But does this mean that awakening to the truth of who you are has in some way "failed to stick"?

There has been a lot of spiritual bullshit spoken about what “awakening” is – any everyone is entitled to their view, so please don’t take my view as gospel – check it out for yourself. We can never lose our “person-ness” while we are alive, but we can spend less and less time aware of ourselves as a person and more and more time as awareness witnessing all that arises within awareness. As a separate person we attract experiences of separation - mostly OK but too often negative and painful. When in state of conscious awareness, we experience what you’ve described, peace and calmness. So “awakening” is the realization of the paradox that I am both awareness, yet also a person, separate from every other person.

What a great rolling experience you’ve become part of! Sort of “now you see it, now you don’t” How can you deepen the experience? Stop identifying with your apparent separateness and start identifying with “I am awareness, everything I see, hear, taste, touch or smell is a manifestation of awareness. Think about this for a moment and you’ll see that if my true essence is awareness and if every “thing” is a manifestation of that awareness, then everything is manifested by me! Wow! You’ll need to think on that one for yourself

Any questions?

It is often taught that at the core of Buddha’s teachings is anatta, often translated as no-self. I want you to go within and tell me what “your” sense of self is. I’m expecting your inquiry to reflect the apparently paradoxical nature of the “I” – as both a separate person and also as awareness

Mike

[figtree]

Thanks Mike for the much needed confirmation. Plus you made me chuckle when you said

There has been a lot of spiritual bullshit spoken about what “awakening” is

I can't still really believe that this "no event" event has happened. It's silly but when I read something that some ancient master has written like Huang Po (which, not too long ago I would have thought was absolute twaddle) I now find that it seems I can identify with what he is saying - me Michael, the know-nothing exams administrator! Surreal ....

Sometimes I feel a bit Jekyll and Hyde. One minute I'm this no person Awareness, next I'm crotchety Michael again stuck with negative thoughts. I've found that when I'm the no Michael if I can identify a negative thought as it emerges I can release it and so it doesn't lead to a narrative stream of thoughts. It is just that thought, a wisp of smoke that disappears into the sky. I need to be very alert to do this though, otherwise II can begin to "thought stream" - one thought after another until I WAKE UP and can gain some peace and tranquility again

I have sensitive points in my past history when if the issue arises can drag me back to being Michael again with all the unreleased emotions bubbling around me. It is a bit frustrating (to be dragged back to these again) but I guess that is what happens when you identify yourself with emotions.

Indeed I still am that person, same personality, same tastes, same values but I now know that I am not that person absolutely. It is all relative to my perception - to someone else I could appear completely different. The difference with the no-Michael is I know I am that absolutely - there is no doubt. It is always there, always accessible, everything emerges inside of it. Fundamentally, I realise that it is my clinging to things that has invented Michael - Michael has arisen and become defined by the attachments or aversions that have come about in my being.

The way to go to become more free it then appears is to let go of attachment and aversion - sounds simple but I already know that it is profoundly difficult.

This has all bubbled up after your post and I'm not sure that I have properly given you the reply that anwers your question. If necessary I will return to it tomorrow and take another look at your post.

Thanks for all the feedback Mike. You have been a real source of guidance for me as this has all been quite sudden and a complete surprise

[Kiwi]

Good morning Michael

A beautiful day here - all is well with the world! I suspect you might also be in a pretty buoyant space!

Thanks for the post - lovely to read and to sense your wonderment at having realised the Truth of what you really are. Now for the implications of that realization....

I'm away from home for two days. so can't guarantee to answer any post you send me until my return on Thursday. Never mind, you have my question about the (fictional) self to ponder and tell me about.

You have undoubtedly seen through the illusion of who you really are, but there are perhaps a few bits and pieces to think about before I ask other LU guides to look over this thread and either confirm or want more questions asked. So what I will be probing over the next few posts is the extent to which any "loose ends" of confusion might still be lingering. OK?

Have a great day. I'm already looking forward to your posts when I return on Thursday

Namaste

Mike

[figtree]

My sense of self... what is my sense of self? Your question echoed in my head and I immediately thought without thinking - I don't have one!

What I have realised recently is that by living in the no-Michael means to simply just witness things as they happen, and watch my body and mind as they move. If I look behind my eyes into my mind there is noone there. All I am aware of is that my senses project out into the world to seize on my surroundings - in a sense it appears that I am my surroundings because I can't find anyone else besides a feeling of "presence" beyond my senses. This is most noticeable when I am fully in the present moment, alert and ready for the world

However, this state does not last long because something in me (my mind) seems to want to dream, thoughts appear unbidden which distract me. Something in me identifies with those thoughts and a running soliloquy opens up in my mind.

To see how this unfolds in my life it is interesting to compare my sense of self at work to when I am at home. At work I feel a different 'person' than when I am at home. At work I feel negative thoughts coming into my head- a result of negative experiences both in my and my wife's working life. In the main they are just thoughts and when I focus on them they disappear like mirages when approached. They don't feel concrete. Sometimes though I experience negative emotions and then I feel that my dwelling in 'awareness' and being in the present moment is more difficult -my focus drops a little. This I realise is down to my recent history, when I was living purely as Michael. I need to get rid of this negativity as I know that it is holding me back but I'm not sure how to work it out.

At home I am more peaceful and the I keep my focus on awareness without too many intrusive thoughts and feelings. Family life can drag me back to being Michael and I sometetimes forget to witness everything and instead respond as a person. But the peace when I am left to the no-Michael is deep.

I used to have a burning religious thirst to know the absolute. Since the 'change' that has diminished. I used to agonize about whether Jesus' 'resurrection' happened - now I feel that it doesn't matter - it is practising the spiritual values of loving Spiritual Awareness (God) and loving one another that counts rather than faith in an unprovable resurrection. To me Jesus is alive because He lives in me in the deeds I do.

Also I use to have sudden burning desires for music or books or to buy things. Now that desire is pretty much assuaged. I stil desire to read up on enlightenment a good deal. But essentially I am finding that I simply want to dwell in the no-Michael more and more.

[figtree]

Hello again Mike

I've been reflecting some more because I don't feel that I've really nailed your question. I've been pondering over this issue of how come I am 'awareness' and how come at the same time I think that I am a person? It hit me this morning that my entire world IS one big fabrication entirely of my own making! So it is up to me to change that world if I am unhappy about something... weird hugh? Think I'll be trying to figure that one out for sometime to come (like you said). Funnily, enough I did gain a lot more peace at work as I simply focused my awareness on my unhappy feelings. Hopefully, progress made.

I suppose it may come back to illusion, make believe... when we dream we think the dream real. When I hear a story or watch a film, we associate ourselves somehow with the stories. In the same way opinions are experessed around me and in some way I react to those opinions. Also, mybe the 'peron' developed out of selfishness, wanting to be important, wanting to 'be someone' The two things some together repeatedly and and behold - We have ourselves a 'Person' with a trials and tribulations.

I know this isn't very lucid, but its the best I got for now!

On a separate note. I have touble being the no-Michael when stress hits at work - I am finding that I am much calmer and handle situations more confidently but my witnessing seems to almost go out the window and I simply act. Not sure what to make of that?

Hope you are enyoying your break

Cheers

Michael

Maybe,

[figtree]

Here I am again (you'll be getting sick of me soon!)

I just realised something very clearly - that my sense of 'I' is quite closely bound up with my need to impress others and also the need to protect myself from hostile intent. Who is this 'I' again emerges! It is a need which my being clings to. Why the need? I guess it is born of a sense of separation and positing myself against a hostile world 'out there'.

I endured a fair amount of ridicule growing up and it has left me hypersensitive to other people's views of myself. Unfortunately it has left me at the mercy of others opinions.

If I could get rid of this need then my sense of self would diminish.

I've seen other threads where it is suggested that all we need to do is realise that 'I' am just a thought and the sense of 'I' vanishes. But my 'I' it appears is my sense of separation. I know that in my essence 'I' am just awareness but the sense of 'I' always returns when my brain tells me that I am separate from others and their intentions.

Think that 'I've reached a bit of an impasse for the moment. Better sign off before I drive you mental

Michael

[Kiwi]

Hi Michael
What a wonderful, wonderful post. Thank you

My sense of self... what is my sense of self? Your question echoed in my head and I immediately thought without thinking - I don't have one!

Indeed, as one-ness you don’t. Self is an instrument used to create and sustain the illusion of separation. Oneness has nothing it could possibly be separate from

What I have realised recently is that by living in the no-Michael means to simply just witness things as they happen, and watch my body and mind as they move. If I look behind my eyes into my mind there is noone there. All I am aware of is that my senses project out into the world to seize on my surroundings - in a sense it appears that I am my surroundings because I can't find anyone else besides a feeling of "presence" beyond my senses. This is most noticeable when I am fully in the present moment, alert and ready for the world

Beautifully put, Michael. Consider that, at the moment of awakening, there is realization that as awareness, you have always existed as an unchanging, constant presence, witnessing the unfolding of life - apparentlyfrom the perspective of a body called Michael. (or, in your words, as no-Michael). And as you have very succinctly put it, the no-michael has no separate identity and therefore has no need of a self (an identity) to sustain itself. The essential Michael exists as awareness and has no identifiable self.

However, this state does not last long because something in me (my mind) seems to want to dream, thoughts appear unbidden which distract me. Something in me identifies with those thoughts and a running soliloquy opens up in my mind.

The paradox of course is that, the person called Michael still exists as a body, was born and will some day die. This Michael, which seems physically real is in fact an arising within awareness, is impermanent, never constant and therefore is not really real. It just seems that way.

To see how this unfolds in my life it is interesting to compare my sense of self at work to when I am at home. At work I feel a different 'person' than when I am at home. At work I feel negative thoughts coming into my head- a result of negative experiences both in my and my wife's working life. In the main they are just thoughts and when I focus on them they disappear like mirages when approached. They don't feel concrete. Sometimes though I experience negative emotions and then I feel that my dwelling in 'awareness' and being in the present moment is more difficult -my focus drops a little. This I realise is down to my recent history, when I was living purely as Michael. I need to get rid of this negativity as I know that it is holding me back but I'm not sure how to work it out.

Does this separate person-in-a-body called Michael have any need for an identity? As you’ve pointed out – yes. There are, in fact many Michaels lurking within the single body – all of which are impermanent, possibly wildly inconstant. You introduced a few of these personnas – the home Michael, the work Michael, the family Michael. Many other Michael-personae probably concurrently exist – , skinny Michael, overweight Michael, sporting Michael, Michael the son – and so on. Each of these personas will have a separate self-identity and will behave slightly differently in different context. Whew – how many Michaels are there? Only one that’s real, and that’s “Michael as Awareness” That Michael has no identity other than “I am awareness” All of the other Michael’s are personae – they might appear real, but they are not and are in fact only made to appear apparently real through the construct we call the “self”

In trying to eliminate the self, ask what you are trying to eliminate it from. Awareness? No. Awareness has no identity and therefore no possible need of a self to identify itself by. You can only ever work at eliminating the notion of a “self” from a dualistic (unreal) apparent manifestation I have called a “persona” Can you succeed in totally eliminating all identifying characteristics (good and bad) of a self associated with any one of your many personae? Why would you want to? Should we all work at making aspects of our various personae less nauseating? Yes. The goal, in short, is not to eliminate self from any personae but to simply make the apparent me-as-a-person a “better person”

At home I am more peaceful and the I keep my focus on awareness without too many intrusive thoughts and feelings. Family life can drag me back to being Michael and I sometetimes forget to witness everything and instead respond as a person. But the peace when I am left to the no-Michael is deep.

Rejoice in the paradox that while awakening is seeing through the illusion of separateness, that separateness provides a magnificent opportunity each day to broaden and deepen the experience. Don’t withdraw from life by acting as if the illusion isn’t there.

I used to have a burning religious thirst to know the absolute. Since the 'change' that has diminished. I used to agonize about whether Jesus' 'resurrection' happened - now I feel that it doesn't matter - it is practising the spiritual values of loving Spiritual Awareness (God) and loving one another that counts rather than faith in an unprovable resurrection. To me Jesus is alive because He lives in me in the deeds I do.

Great wisdom there, Michael. Namaste To know the absolute, look within at what you, in Truth, are

Also I use to have sudden burning desires for music or books or to buy things. Now that desire is pretty much assuaged. I stil desire to read up on enlightenment a good deal. But essentially I am finding that I simply want to dwell in the no-Michael more and more.

Reading is good - even though stories of enlightenment are almost always stereotypical. After a while curiosity will move you on to consider “how deep is this awareness?” and “what is beyond this awareness? When such a"channel-deepening" curiosity arises, follow it. Until then, lovingly dwell in all that no-Michael has to show.

I’ll respond to your following posts tomorrow – right now, the “me as a person” needs some sleep!! In the meantime, please continue to write as the wonder unfolds for you

Mike

[figtree]

Hi Mike
Hope that you're are managing to get some decent rest. I guesss even hardy Aussies need a break now and then...

Thanks again by the way, I can't tell you how much your encouragement means to *me*. Each time I post I think 'ok, he's gonna tell you that *you* that are way off base here'. Sometimes I wonder if this whole experience isn't "real" - but then at the moment I'm having to keep redefining what "real" means! :)

You perked my curiosity when you said

Rejoice in the paradox that while awakening is seeing through the illusion of separateness, that separateness provides a magnificent opportunity each day to broaden and deepen the experience. Don’t withdraw from life by acting as if the illusion isn’t there.

I was hoping that you could elaborate a bit more on this.

Meanwhile back on planet no-Michael, I tried to stay epecially present today with really welcome results! I found the peace that I'd been lacking at work and people around me seemed to resonate with the positivity. I am quite tired now possibly at a result of being so alert all the time. Is there a time when it becomes more 'effortless'??

Yesterday I really focused on my feeling of sadness and I started noticing that instead of just being sad it started to become more just 'awareness of there being sadness'. On top of that I've really been trying to forgive people for the past, so hopefully both things are starting to pay dividends. I really will be happy if I can obtain the same peace at work as I can elsewhere in life.

This also that you posted piqued my curiosity

After a while curiosity will move you on to consider “how deep is this awareness?” and “what is beyond this awareness? When such a"channel-deepening" curiosity arises, follow it. Until then, lovingly dwell in all that no-Michael has to show.

Hoping that you could elaborate on this also? Is there a point a which there is an irrevocable change when someone automatically and always identifies with awareness more that they do their historical personae?

One thing that I've noticed since 'the change' - (feel like I'm mentioning that I'm menopausal or something) is that I'm not sleeping as much. I keep waking up in the midde of the night. I'm not more tired during the day but I would prefer to carry on sleeping until it is time to get up.

One other thing that is bothering me slightly is the issue of genuineness. Could I go back to being 'Michael' if I wanted - is 'the change' permanent. What would happen if someone started treating *me* cruelly - could I just start acting as if I had never known the no-Michael?? and if so what would that say about things?

Seems like I'm the one asking all the questions now!

Thanks again Mike for being willing to spend so much of your 'personal' time sorting my head out.

Michael

[neeeel]

Hi, I am not sure what has happened to michael, I think he has left for a while

"Each time I post I think 'ok, he's gonna tell you that *you* that are way off base here'. "

sorry to say, you really are way off base. I think that the guiding has gone in a misleading direction, where you have misunderstood what "there is no self" means. I am happy to pick up from here and keep going with you, or if you prefer a different guide , or a fresh start, you could start a new thread

[figtree]

Hi

Sorry is this a joke?

[neeeel]

Sorry, but no , its not a joke.

Here are a few of the things that michael said that I think could be confusing you

That awareness is your true essence.That awareness is a witnessing of what is happening right now around you. It is what you are.

You are awareness – always have been, and always will be

Stop identifying with your apparent separateness and start identifying with “I am awareness

and some of your replys, which seem to me to indicate your confusion.

Is there a point a which there is an irrevocable change when someone automatically and always identifies with awareness more that they do their historical personae?

Could I go back to being 'Michael' if I wanted - is 'the change' permanent. What would happen if someone started treating *me* cruelly - could I just start acting as if I had never known the no-Michael??

And these are actually really good questions. Because through language, or whatever, michael has led you to believe that you are awareness. Whereas, you are not awareness. No self means no self, in any way shape or form, and this includes awareness. So identification with awareness is a step sideways, rather than forwards.

With regard to switching between michael and no-michael, such a thing isnt possible. there is no time when you have a self, so switching between self and no-self is not possible. You are talking as if there is a you that can be this or that, and this indicates a fundamental misunderstanding.

I understand that this may be annoying, frustrating , embarassing or whatever, and I can only apologise. I probably havent handled it very well, and am not sure how to proceed from here. Would be interested to hear your input.

neil

[figtree]

Thank you for the quick reply Neil. However, it what way shape or form can awareness be be a self - awareness is just being aware of appearances it cannot be described as a self. May be the syntax of words is confusing you.

[figtree]

"There is a Reality which is Indivisible, One, Alone, the Source and Being of all; not a thing, nor even a mind, but pure Spirit or clear Consciousness; and we are That and nothing but That, for That is our true Nature; and the only way to find It is to look steadily within, where are to be found utmost peace, unfading joy, and eternal life itself." (From Religions of the World by Douglas Harding)

Words blasted words - I hold to the above and that is my experience. Sorry to quote with another's words but it seems that these and these alone are what is causing the confusion. How to describe the bedrock of "Being in the World as a Human Being"? I call it Pure Awareness through our senses. Others may call it differently.

With regard to switching between michae ... tanding.

I think that I possible have confused you in this matter. I know that michael isn't real but the ego hasn't dissolved completely. Somethings stil annoy or frustrate me - this is where there is still identification with the michael ego and sometimes I feel the old reactions welling up again- there is change and yet no change. It will surely take time for such a thing to occur for the ego to dissolve. Are you saying that I will suddenly become a totally different person??

There is no monopoly on Truth and surely people's experience and way of phrasing things is different. From what I understand the Hindus talk of the self and the Self. The Buddhist's go with no-self. Michael the ego- is a construct - I get that. The no-Michael is what I share with you and everybody else on the planet and that is what I'm trying to swim about in and where ego issues arise I try to wear them out through non-reaction - cause that isn't me..

[neeeel]

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying, have been busy this weekend.

"There is a Reality which is Indivisible, One, Alone, the Source and Being of all; not a thing, nor even a mind, but pure Spirit or clear Consciousness; and we are That and nothing but That, for That is our true Nature; and the only way to find It is to look steadily within, where are to be found utmost peace, unfading joy, and eternal life itself." (From Religions of the World by Douglas Harding)

Words blasted words - I hold to the above and that is my experience. Sorry to quote with another's words but it seems that these and these alone are what is causing the confusion. How to describe the bedrock of "Being in the World as a Human Being"? I call it Pure Awareness through our senses. Others may call it differently.

As you say, all just words, and whats more , words that are tainted with association with religions and spirituality for centuries. This forum is not for a metaphysical or philosophy discussion, but is for one thing only, pointing to no-self.

When your guide is telling you "you are awareness", and you are asking a question like "Is there a point a which there is an irrevocable change when someone automatically and always identifies with awareness more that they do their historical personae?" then it seems clear that you have misunderstood something.
You are not awareness. Awareness is not you. No self means no identification. No self does not mean identifying with awareness rather than their historical personae, and that appears to be the idea you got of it from your previous discussion.

I think that I possible have confused you in this matter. I know that michael isn't real but the ego hasn't dissolved completely. Somethings stil annoy or frustrate me - this is where there is still identification with the michael ego and sometimes I feel the old reactions welling up again- there is change and yet no change. It will surely take time for such a thing to occur for the ego to dissolve. Are you saying that I will suddenly become a totally different person??

Yes, it takes time, seeing no self is only the beginning , and generally, although not always, it is not a huge change. I dont think you have seen it clearly.
Who or what is identifying with the michael ego? Who or what is feeling the old reactions welling up again?

The no-Michael is what I share with you and everybody else on the planet and that is what I'm trying to swim about in and where ego issues arise I try to wear them out through non-reaction - cause that isn't me..

The ego isnt you, either is the no-michael, either is awareness, either is your left big toe, either is anything. There is no you. Thats what I can point you to if you are still interested to look. We can make a clean fresh start if you like, new thread.

Let me know

[figtree]

ok you've got me interested - but you have to be the one to guide me.