Clarity

[Ronaldo]

While you're taking a break....

I don't feel comfortable with this.

And isn't that a thought?
Did you create it? 😉

So what is there to "me" other than thoughts saying "I, me, mine"?

[Ronaldo]

If I don't have any control over my thoughts then what are they doing inside my head and why do they have so much power over me? How does my life and 'me' operate in this world. I feel a bit forlorn ... and all of this is thought

Like you noticed, it is all more thoughts...
What if there is no entity there thinking the thought, they are simply an imagined experience occurring?

How does my life and 'me' operate in this world

There is already no "me", and everything works perfectly as it is.
Nothing changes if this fact is seen or not seen.. because it's how it already is, there is no me outside of thoughts content.

[Nicolette]

Hi Ron,
back from my break😁

And isn't that a thought?

Oh, my word, yes. I felt it as an emotion, but now I see it's a thought.

Did you create it? 😉

I want to say yes but no, I did not. It popped into my mind the same way a country just instantly appeared in my head doing the previous exercise.

So what is there to "me" other than thoughts saying "I, me, mine"?

Umm, nothing. I experience through my senses and thoughts appear as they like and all the while I am not in control of the world spinning around or anything else for that matter.

Like you noticed, it is all more thoughts...
What if there is no entity there thinking the thought, they are simply an imagined experience occurring?

Yikes!

There is already no "me", and everything works perfectly as it is.
Nothing changes if this fact is seen or not seen.. because it's how it already is, there is no me outside of thoughts content.

I see that and feel some fear.

There is already no "me", and everything works perfectly as it is.
Nothing changes if this fact is seen or not seen.. because it's how it already is, there is no me outside of thoughts content.

Just going to let this simmer for now.

Thanxs, Ron, for the extra time and if you are celebrating this weekend or taking some extra time for yourself, enjoy and I send you blessings.😊

[Ronaldo]

OK, take a bit of time with all this.
There is nothing to fear, just a false belief that claims something will be gone, something will be missed, some control will be relinquished and I'll become a vegetable. These are all mind stories. I'll repeat myself - these thoughts cannot change reality, either it is already the case or it's not... but here it is, smiling at you, and it's beautiful.
If fear arises, find the body sensation... drop the thoughts and focus on that body sensation. Without the thoughts about it, isn't it just a sensation? Can you let that sensation just be?

Enjoy the holiday!
Blessings,
Ron

[Nicolette]

Hi Ron,
Thank you😊

If fear arises, find the body sensation... drop the thoughts and focus on that body sensation. Without the thoughts about it, isn't it just a sensation? Can you let that sensation just be?

This is helpful! I am practicing this, right now. It helps to focus on the sensation only.

Regards,
Nicolette

[Ronaldo]

Hello dear Nicolette,
Looking at emotions is best done with curiosity and love..
Bring up the thought like "Nicolette is a fictional character", somehow that thought seem to trigger a body sensation..
Attention goes to the sensation, locate it e.g. "contraction in the chest", and notice, does that sensation say anything at all about the tag "fear"? Is there anything here except that raw sensations and the thoughts?

What is this sensation made of?
Does the sensation belong to anyone?
Can a self who feels that sensation be found?
Is there an owner?

warmly,
Ron

[Nicolette]

Hello Ron

Attention goes to the sensation, locate it e.g. "contraction in the chest", and notice, does that sensation say anything at all about the tag "fear"? Is there anything here except that raw sensations and the thoughts?

The sensation doesn't say anything as I put my attention on it and simple feel it. It is not something I want to feel, sure, but in a way it's only doing it's job and is not personal. I feel the sensation inside my body and I am aware of thoughts and nothing else.

What is this sensation made of?

I feel a little adrenaline pumping and my stomach and chest mussels feel tight and my breathing feels different. The sensation seems to be made of biological action taking place in the body.

Does the sensation belong to anyone?

I feel like this sensation belongs to me since I feel it in my body and it feels so personal, but from having learned from others and how they describe feeling fear or anxiety in their body and nervous system, I know that I can identify what I'm feeling in their words exactly. That says to me that eventhough this sensation feels so personal, it's actually generic for everyone.
On investigating, I see that I don't control the sensation and can't tell it to immediately go away for instance. The sensation is not mine and doesn't belong to me. I experience it, but that's it.

Can a self who feels that sensation be found

?
Again, it feels so natural to say, yes, but there is only the experience of the sensation in the body and the thoughts, but there is no one in control, no 'me' playing with a remote or pulling the strings.

Is there an owner?

No. Nobody is here planning things out.

Warmly
Nicolette

[Ronaldo]

Hi Nicolette,

Your answers were mostly all thought interpretations, let me remind you again that were looking for only direct experience (DE). While I too at times use terms like "chemicals", in DE what is that? It's a concept, it's not something you can directly experience with sense perception.

I feel a little adrenaline pumping and my stomach and chest mussels feel tight and my breathing feels different. The sensation seems to be made of biological action taking place in the body.

This is all thoughts content, adrenaline pumping is not something you experience, it's something you imagine. The biological explanations are all something learned and not something experienced, see that?

When you focus on a sensation, what is actually experienced outside of the thought interpretation?
check it out for yourself. Is "chest" or "muscle" known outside of thoughts?

So let's take a good look at what we call body in direct experience.
Please take a few minutes and sit quietly with eyes closed and look:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Regards
Ron

[Nicolette]

Hi Ron,
Let's try again.

I close my eyes as I answer these questions:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No. I stand up and sit down, but I can't tell you how tall the body is.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No. It just is.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No. Surprisingly not.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No.

Is there an inside or an outside

No. Also a surprise.

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Thoughts say outside of the skin, on top, but touching my skin on the outside, simply=sensation. Attention on what I feel inside also,simply = sensation. This blob of awareness/body experiences through the senses. Bottom and legs pressing into chair. Clothes on top of skin. Sensation 'inside' is a thought that says the sensation is deep inside the mussels, yet when I put my awareness on it that sensation comes to the surface and feels close by. It seems as close as the sensations felt by the skin.

It is difficult to name the sensation without using a thought, e.g., oh, this is fear and I feel it over here in the 'chest'. Still the sensation is there and I'm aware of it.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The body feels. It feels using the senses. I have a physically engaging experience as I move around and I see, hear, taste, smell and experience sensations.This is more apparent to me when I close my eyes and have no concept of what a body looks like.

The word/label body implies 'my' body. 'Me', 'mine', 'I', and gives credence to a solid identity since no one looks alike, etc, and I see arms and legs that have a definate shape to it. Closing my eyes again and not seeing 'myself', there once again is only a 'blob' that experiences sensations and the rest of the senses.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

When I look past the thought identification process, there really is only that which I experience via the senses. I find it hard to separate the thoughts especially when it comes to trying to explain what I'm feeling. That's interesting and I find myself getting carried away by thoughts quickly. Focusing only on DE and the senses makes it allot easier for me to see that now.

I will practice DE 'within the body' throughout my day. Thank you for your observation, Ron, it's been very helpful. Looking forward to what else you see.😊 (Also allot of thoughts come up when I say, "There is no Nicolette". Where is Nicolette? I will try to find her through DE.)

Regards
Nicolette

[Ronaldo]

Hi Nicolette,
I'm very glad you found some surprises there, that's an indication of actual looking, not just thinking, beautiful!
Let's look closer at some remaining beliefs there.

If you need more time with the below, take it.

It is difficult to name the sensation without using a thought, e.g., oh, this is fear and I feel it over here in the 'chest'. Still the sensation is there and I'm aware of it.

Yes, it's virtually impossible to describe experience, and why is that? What happens when experience is reduced to words?
Here is an experiment that helps demonstrate the difference between actual experience and an imagined experience - thoughts. If you pay close attention you will also discover how tags and words can never capture reality.

Please do this exercise, really get into it so that you will experimentally see the difference.

1. pick some fruit, best if aromatic and juicy, a piece of apple is great - a food you're very familiar with.
2. place it on the table in front of you.
3. With eyes closed, PRETEND that you are picking it up slowly, feel it, smell it, put it in your mouth. Chew it slowly and taste the pretend fruit, bring all your amazing memory and every bit of your imagination into this! Feel the texture and the taste, finally swallow it this pretend fruit.

In your most simple and immediate experience of smelling and tasting the pretend fruit:.
(a) What is the pretend smell made of? (what is it?)
(b) What is the pretend taste made of?

4. take the actual fruit, smell it for real, put it in your mouth, taste it carefully, chew and finally swallow.

Describe the real smell and taste
Describe the real texture

When you compare the two experiences, one composed of thoughts and imaginations about eating this apple, to eating the apple - what are your conclusions?
Could the thought fruit satisfy you?
Is it super clear why a though isn't a real experience?
Since the illusion is generated by thoughts, can you see why we cannot rely on thoughts to expose the illusion?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The body feels. It feels using the senses. I have a physically engaging experience as I move around and I see, hear, taste, smell and experience sensations.This is more apparent to me when I close my eyes and have no concept of what a body looks like.

Isn't "the body feels" a thought interpretation?
Where exactly within the body do you hear the sound?
can you find where a smell or a sight is known?


Hope you're enjoying the holiday,
warm regards
Ron

[Nicolette]

Good day to you, Ron

(a) What is the pretend smell made of? (what is it?)

A memory of me smelling the actual fruit before I put it down on the table to start the exercise.

b) What is the pretend taste made of?

A memory of the day before when I ate an actual piece of the same fruit.

Describe the real smell and taste

I am smelling the fruit with eyes closed and I am smelling a sweetness and aroma that is familiar to this fruit. I feel the air, cold against my nostrils as I breath in while smelling the fruit.
I bite off a bit of the fruit and chew some of it, which both release a burst of sweat flavoured juice inside my mouth that enlivens different areas inside my mouth where I really become aware of the taste of the fruit.

Describe the real texture

The texture is a little squishy when biting and chewing. Although solid the texture is also soft and rubbery and the skin is rougher on the tongue than the inside of the fruit. Generally soft once bitten into.

what are your conclusions?

Imagining the fruit is different from tasting it. Recalling the smell and specific sweat aroma is almost correct, but there is no sensation involved and it's not anywhere near as strong and complex as actually smelling the fruit in real time. I would have to use allot of imagination to especially recreate the cool air flowing into my nostrils when breathing in the smell of the fruit and the taste of the fruit as it's juice hits the different areas in my mouth. There is no real sense experience at all. No sensation of the actual fruit in my hand or actual chewing of it.

Could the thought fruit satisfy you?

No. It's fake with no real substance and leaves me unsatisfied and wanting to eat the actual fruit.

Is it super clear why a though isn't a real experience?

Yes. A thought feels hallow eventhough it's mighty convincing when I'm caught up in it, until of course I experience directly through using the senses. A thought is a black and white facsimile of actual life in three dimensions happening right now. A real experience is in the moment and also much simpler than thoughts that seem to build themselves up and go on and on.

Since the illusion is generated by thoughts, can you see why we cannot rely on thoughts to expose the illusion?

Yes.Thoughts take me away from direct experience and keep on telling an imagined story.

Where exactly within the body do you hear the sound?

Within the body I hear no sound.

can you find where a smell or a sight is known?

From within the body, observing with closed eyes, there is no smell or sight.

Thanxs, Ron, the holiday is great, relaxing and taxing at the same time, lol. Hope you're enjoying the holiday as well.
Warm Regards
Nicolette

[Ronaldo]

Hi Nicolette,
A quick reply from me... (I am working today)
I'd like you to look again, in DE.

Within the body I hear no sound.
From within the body, observing with closed eyes, there is no smell or sight.

Is that so? Close your eyes and find a sound..
How can you tell that the sound is heard within the body?
Is there a body to be found? Isn't that a pure concept?
Can you ever find a body? Or all you can ever find are parts and they are all just seen as color. Even if you look in the mirror, you see colors that make up shapes, and only parts of the body/face is ever visible.
sensations that are tagged "my hands" etc.

Try this:
Put your hand on a table and close your eyes.
Can you tell which is hand and which is table from the sensation alone?
Can you tell what the table is made of from the sensation alone?

How is it known that the body is the perceiver of sight, sound, sensations, smells and tastes?
How about thoughts? Is it known that "the brain" is perceiving thoughts?

Please don't just answer from thinking, look carefully as many times as you can to be perfectly sure.
Regards
Ron

[Nicolette]

Hi Ron,

There is no body. I keep on focusing 'within when doing the exercises', separating it from the 'without' and I do that via closing me eyes which helps me to focus only on the 'within', but this 'inside/outside' is a thought. I practice by opening my eyes and closing my eyes intermittently and there is no difference from what I perceive of as 'inside/outside' than more light/colour when my eyes are open.

How can you tell that the sound is heard within the body?

I can't really. There is no 'within' and I only imagine it to be so.

Is there a body to be found? Isn't that a pure concept?

The 'body' is a pure concept, a thought. And so is 'within' and 'without'. Trying to see 'within' is a concept. I see the colour and form of what looks like parts of a body, which is hard to shake admittedly. Then I close my eyes and the thought of a body is not there anymore. When I open my eyes nothing has changed. There is no 'body'.

Can you ever find a body

'A body' is a thought. I feel lots of sensations. I see colour. It's not easy to shake, this 'my' and 'body', sorry. 'Mine', is a thought. There is no DE of a 'mine', or a 'body'.

Can you tell which is hand and which is table from the sensation alone?

No, they seem as one. There is a thought the table must be at the bottom, but paying attention to the sensation alone, I can't tell.

Can you tell what the table is made of from the sensation alone?

No. Thoughts come to mind, but focusing on the sensation alone, I can't tell with the table is made of.

How is it known that the body is the perceiver of sight, sound, sensations, smells and tastes?

This is a thought I tell myself. The thought that the body contains all the senses and that all is centralised in the 'body' which means to me that I'm real and I exist. These are all concepts.

How about thoughts? Is it known that "the brain" is perceiving thoughts?

Mmm.Of course it is!😉 No, that is another thought/concept. The 'brain thinks' and the 'body feels' are two strong ideas for me. I imagine thoughts to appear in my brain; it's not a DE though.

The thought now comes to mind that if I'm not the body or within it, then where am?

Thank you for the extra time, before going to work.
Regards,
Nicolette.

[Ronaldo]

Nice 😊

The thought now comes to mind that if I'm not the body or within it, then where am?

Exactly...
Initially you believed that you are the thinker of thoughts, and then you got used to the assumption that there is an observer, a "me" who knows thoughts and objects like sights, sounds, smells.... But is there one to be found?
Is there an observer separated from what is just happening., what just IS?

Here is an excerpt of the Bahiya Sutta, where the Buddha is teaching Bahiya:

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself

Is there any separation between the seen and the knowing of it? - the experience of the seen?
Is there any separation between a sound and the experience (or the knowing) of the sound?
Is there anything to be found except for experience?
And what knows experience?
What do you find?

with love
Ron

[Nicolette]

Hi Ron,

But is there one to be found?
Is there an observer be separated from what is just happening?

Try as I might, looking hard for someone or something, there is no one or nothing to be found.

Is there any separation between the seen and the knowing of it? - the experience of the seen?

No. It's simultaneous. Instantaneous.

Is there any separation between a sound and the experience (or the knowing) of the sound?

No. It's all one experience. No time gap.

Is there anything to be found except for experience?

No, there is only experience. The rest is imagined.

And what knows experience?
What do you find?

WHAT knows experience? I don't know if I am stretching here, but I find stillness. I am using words to describe it, therefore It might be concepts, I know, but at the expense of that, what I experience is silence or spasciousness and I can't help it but I feel a jolt inside and a slight joyousness creeping up on me as I answer this question. And what knows experience? Is it experience, experiencing itself? Could it be?

With love and gratitude,
Nicolette