Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

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CapnBoomer
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:38 pm

Stacy, Taking a second look at those two lists I made this morning.
Check again. Is one truer than the other? How does your gut feel reading each list? It is probably different.
After sitting with them for a while and relaxing and opening I found the second list more honest, simpler, while the ”I am“ in the first list seems like an unnecessary addition…. A little grating even. There is this quiet dim knowing that the " I " has never been there to do any of this and that this has always been known. I sense a little uncomfortableness and constriction in my chest and gut when I re-read the " I am " list. Even a little smile and chuckle at the obvious absurdity of " I am " attempting to take credit and responsibility for the unfolding of the entire universe.

Instead, LOOK. What is here without labels? There IS an answer.
Whatever it is would be what? What is it we focus on?
After looking again and relaxing I find there is an undeniable sense of just being...alive,aware being
Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you love?
Oh yes, many. Do we need details?
What Sensation arises when you lie?
Constriction and tightening in the chest and gut...a pressure and throbbing in the head and ringing in the ears . Flush of heat to the torso and face. Lots of thoughts arising.

Thanks for holding my feet to the fire. I am beginning to see just how full of bullshit stories I have become. Wow. Very impressive.

Bennett
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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Anastacia42
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:14 am

Good evening

GOOD. Now let's get even more accurate, more out of stories & thinking.
After sitting with them for a while and relaxing and opening I found the second list more honest, simpler, while the ”I am“ in the first list seems like an unnecessary addition…. A little grating even. There is this quiet dim knowing that the " I " has never been there to do any of this and that this has always been known. I sense a little uncomfortableness and constriction in my chest and gut when I re-read the " I am " list. Even a little smile and chuckle at the obvious absurdity of " I am " attempting to take credit and responsibility for the unfolding of the entire universe.
This whole paragraph, while true enough in the relative sense, is made up stories, not Actual Experience. I'm not going to pull out words & ask for the AE right now. Later.

Below is the most important thing any human being can learn, in my opinion: how to notice when one is lying. And, conversely, what truth feels like.

Lying is tight, heavy & constricted.
Truth is relaxed, light & expansive.


Start paying attention to these gut sensations in your replies & in your life. For example, I check my gut before I hit "send" to make sure I'm staying truthful. You may already do this some.
I sense a little uncomfortableness and constriction in my chest and gut when I re-read the " I am " list.
Yes, "I" is a lie. Don't believe me. LOOK & check.
Instead, LOOK. What is here without labels? There IS an answer.
Whatever it is would be what? What is it we focus on?

After looking again and relaxing I find there is an undeniable sense of just being...alive,aware being
Okay, yes. And more specifically?

Without labels, don't you still find Actual Experience? Seeing, Hearing, Touching, Smelling, Tasting & Thoughts Arising on their own? Again, you never need to take my word for it. LOOK
Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you love?
Oh yes, many. Do we need details?
No. I don't need the stories. Check your gut. Do you find a Sensation there as you recall lying?
Constriction and tightening in the chest and gut...a pressure and throbbing in the head and ringing in the ears . Flush of heat to the torso and face. Lots of thoughts arising.
I think you've got this.
Thanks for holding my feet to the fire. I am beginning to see just how full of bullshit stories I have become. Wow. Very impressive.
Yes, you're welcome. That's my job.

Let's look at labels.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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CapnBoomer
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:03 am

Stacy, Taking a second look at those two lists made this morning.
Check again. Is one truer than the other? How does your gut feel reading each list? It is probably different.
After sitting with them for a while and relaxing and opening I found the second list more honest, simpler, while the ”I am“ in the first list seems like an unnecessary addition…. A little grating even. There is this quiet dim knowing that the " I " has never been there to do any of this and that this has always been known. I sense a little uncomfortableness and constriction in my chest and gut when I re-read the " I am " list. Even a little smile and chuckle at the obvious absurdity of " I am " attempting to take credit and responsibility for the unfolding of the entire universe.

Instead, LOOK. What is here without labels? There IS an answer.
Whatever it is would be what? What is it we focus on?
After looking again and relaxing I find there is an undeniable sense of just being...alive,aware being
Can you remember a time when you lied to someone you love?
Oh yes, many. Do we need details?
What Sensation arises when you lie?
Constriction and tightening in the chest and gut...a pressure and throbbing in the head and ringing in the ears . Flush of heat to the torso and face.

Thanks for holding my feet to the fire. I am beginning to see just how full of bullshit stories I have become. Wow. Impressive.

Bennett
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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CapnBoomer
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:04 am

Little tech glitch and resent my last post. Will answer your latest in the morn.....
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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Anastacia42
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:28 am

Okay.

Thanks,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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CapnBoomer
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:04 pm

Top O'Th Mornin Stacy
This whole paragraph, while true enough in the relative sense, is made up stories, not Actual Experience. I'm not going to pull out words & ask for the AE right now. Later.

Below is the most important thing any human being can learn, in my opinion: how to notice when one is lying. And, conversely, what truth feels like.

Lying is tight, heavy & constricted.
Truth is relaxed, light & expansive.

Start paying attention to these gut sensations in your replies & in your life. For example, I check my gut before I hit "send" to make sure I'm staying truthful.
Well this is f'ing frustrating as all get out 'cause this is how it felt when I wrote and sent the paragraph in question.!!! Gotta tell ya Stacy, I am reeling ...feeling frustrated, pissed and totally lost. In my experience my"gut' has not and ,as has been demonstrated here, is not, a reliable indicator of "what truth feels like" . If this really is the case I have a shit ton of work to do and all my "spiritual' studies have been a waste and a joke. Aint that a kick in the head! AE right now??? my palms are sweaty, the heart and head poundings and my nervous system on fire....heat waves charging up and down my spine and into my head making me feel all swooney. My mouth is dry and thoughts race even more.

Don't believe me. LOOK & check.
Right now I dont know who or what to believe. With what instrument do I look and check???My eyes, my heart, my mind, my gut??? I am feeling depressed and clueless. " I" (what ever the f that is) am looking and all I see is "me" looking. Maybe its "just" a story but its the only one I seem to know or have access to right now.
Without labels, don't you still find Actual Experience? Seeing, Hearing, Touching, Smelling, Tasting & Thoughts Arising on their own? Again, you never need to take my word for it. LOOK
Yes, there are perceptions here. Including the ones you mentioned. Are they arising “on their own”? I really cant say. What is “on their own”? Does taste, or touch have a volition? Or do they arise like swamp gas rising to the surface originating from the eons of decaying anaerobic muck below... or from God
When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?
I see the color red with my eyes but I also experience the color green in my mind. Perhaps a special gift I possess
Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?
Both,
Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)
Honestly, at this point I have no f ing clue what "reality" is. I am not just being cheecky here. I feel totally groundless. What is "here now" ,for me, in my total experience, is both green and red. Now what?

I
s 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?
At this point I have no idea
If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
This one I got....NO!
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?
Redness does not become good or bad if labeled as such..About their affect on 'reality'....
Beats the shit outta me. "Reality" like "Truth" seems really, really, sticky .... or slippery ....to me right now.


Frustrated as HELL but not giving up!!! Keep ‘em coming!

Thanks so much Stacy

Cheers!

Bennett
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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Anastacia42
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:45 pm

Good morning, Bennett,

That's a huge reaction. Stop. Breathe.Take it easy. Your whole world just turned upside down. I hear you.

This is reminding me of something Natalie Goldberg wrote:

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"
I see the color red with my eyes but I also experience the color green in my mind. Perhaps a special gift I possess.
No. Everyone has the content of thought "green" in their minds. You're believing the content of thought if you imagine you experience "green" when there's nothing green in front of you.

This is what we unlearn for this process. Seeing a self is seeing something that is not there.

We want to distinguish between Actual Experience & content of thought.

Thought Arising happens. But the content of thought is made up. You had to be taught. It didn't exist until someone told you it did. A baby doesn't know "self" until Mommy & Daddy (and everyone else) pointed and said "Bennett." Right?

That's what we want to become aware of again. What's there in the evidence of your 5 senses vs. what is made up: labels. language, judgment, stories.

Now we're not getting rid of it entirely to become nonverbal blubbering babies, not at all. That's why I mentioned level confusion. Those stories are useful for communicating. But for SEEING no self. yes, everything labeled & learned is useless. It is only getting in the way.

Write back & tell me how you're doing, please, before we move on. Are you okay to continue?

Much love & caring to you,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Anastacia42
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:48 pm

Let me mention:
AE right now??? my palms are sweaty, the heart and head poundings and my nervous system on fire....heat waves charging up and down my spine and into my head making me feel all swooney. My mouth is dry and thoughts race even more.
No.

Actual Experience of all of that is ONLY Sensation & Thoughts Arising. Nothing more.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:21 pm

Good afternoon, Bennett,

Doing okay this afternoon? I'm trying to watch for your next reply and I do work a 40-hour week job, so I'm at work right now.

Because you said:
not giving up!!! Keep ‘em coming!
I'll give you another exercise. Please still reply to the earlier post from today.

Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".

Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?

What is found?

Really LOOK. It's easy to see the "logic" and think we "understand." Be with it.


Much love,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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CapnBoomer
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:50 pm

Stacy, long day at work and social obligation this evening = I will respond in the morning. Been a rough day...in a daze. Horses are out and running, no use looking longingly at that door.
AE right now??? my palms are sweaty, the heart and head poundings and my nervous system on fire....heat waves charging up and down my spine and into my head making me feel all swooney. My mouth is dry and thoughts race even more.
No.

Actual Experience of all of that is ONLY Sensation & Thoughts Arising. Nothing more.
Sure as hell felt like I was directly experiencing all that. If not, then what was it?

More in the morning.
Bennett
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:15 pm

You experienced Sensations.

The labels are made up.

Hasta mañana!
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:21 pm

Stacy, Ahora as manana
Wow, this is putting me into unfamiliar territory. And very confusing but here we go. Thanks for the reminder to breathe.
Much love & caring to you,
Thanx for this too...it gets in.
We want to distinguish between Actual Experience & content of thought.
Ahh, and there's the rub...isnt content of thought an "Actual Experience"? This is where I get stuck on LU philosophy ( or teaching, or position...whatever you want to call it) IS thought any more or less "Actual" then my experience of this spoon or that sensation? To me it seems they are all perceptions. I am really struggling with this concept Stacy. I will go thru the exercise below as best and honestly as I can but I havent yet been able to see the difference you are pointing to. Let's keep at it till I do.
Thought Arising happens. But the content of thought is made up. You had to be taught. It didn't exist until someone told you it did. A baby doesn't know "self" until Mommy & Daddy (and everyone else) pointed and said "Bennett." Right?
Yes, I can see this. How do we know that this doesnt apply equally to all "Arisings"...thoughts, forms, perceptions,"an outside world" etc. Are these "actual" or are they all stories, just like the "I" story?
You experienced Sensations.

The labels are made up.
Dont see how noticing sweaty palms or my head pounding" are stories. They sure feel like sensations! Help!!! What am I missing?
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Well yes and no...they are both occurring in my mind but their content is different and the feeling they evoke is certainly different and distinguishable.
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?
What's the difference? How can it be said that "content" isnt true? Sorry to drag this out Stacy but I am not seeing this (yet)
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".
Got it
After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.
yup
Is there a difference?
Same thing here...yes and no!l Argghh
Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?
Nothing special but different.
What is found?
Honestly?? Confusion!!! Bewilderment!!
Really LOOK. It's easy to see the "logic" and think we "understand." Be with it.
I will.

Do you have any exercise I can do during the day to day routine of life? ...While at work ( I work alone, no music etc), driving, doing chores etc? My mind is just all over the place. I used to fill it with "teachings" Mooji, Bentinho, ACIM etc.)

Gracias por todo.

Bennett
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski

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Anastacia42
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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 pm

Si, puedo ayudarte. Primero voy a manejar a mí trabajo.

Más pronto.

,)
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:01 pm

Okay, good morning, again. Switching back to my native English.

What you are dealing with is called being "language bound." There is some fiction out there and urban legends about native people or aliens who could not see something for which they had no name, such as cars or a spacecraft. It just didn't exist to them. (Those stories are not true, but you get the analogy.) That is what is happening with you. You are almost completely attached to words, not seeing that things have an existence before they are labelled. In fact, to sum up the Sensations you listed in your first response to this idea, it sounds like fear, and maybe anger. That is understandable.

Here is some scholarly information (words) on the topic:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9501500111

Publisher Summary
This chapter presents an overview of the verbal fluency and the language bound effect on the people. Various investigators have argued that fluent individuals are more intelligent or creative than others. However, verbal fluency could reflect, in part, the extent to which a person usually relies on linguistic representations of objects and events rather than other forms of representation. Recent work suggests that individuals may indeed differ in the extent to which they rely on linguistic structures. Some appear to be language-bound (LB), that is, they perceive and remember events in language terms even when this approach leads them into misperceptions and distorted memories. Others appear to be language-optional (LO), that is, they can use language structures or set them aside, depending on task demands. The classification of individuals as LB or LO is based on a temporal order judgment task involving fusible dichotic items.

So, let's relate your experience to something you are familiar with, A Course in Miracles. The following are a part of why I said that it loosened me up to see what is offered here at LU. Remember these? From the very first lesson, ACIM is teaching you that what you see means nothing. That it is made up. That you do not understand it. And that it upsets you because you see something that is not there, and so on.

We're not going to practice ACIM here, but you can refer to your Workbook there, at times, if it helps.

Lessons: Part I

1. Nothing I see in this room [on this street, from this window, in this place] means anything.

2. I have given everything I see in this room [on this street, from this window, in this place] all the meaning that it has for me.

3. I do not understand anything I see in this room [on this street, from this window, in this place].

4. These thoughts do not mean anything. They are like the things I see in this room [on this street, from this window, in this place].

5. I am never upset for the reason I think.

6. I am upset because I see something that is not there.

7. I see only the past.

8. My mind is preoccupied with past thoughts.

9. I see nothing as it is now.

10. My thoughts do not mean anything.

11. My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

12. I am upset because I see a meaningless world.

13. A meaningless world engenders fear.

14. God did not create a meaningless world.

15. My thoughts are images that I have made.

16. I have no neutral thoughts.

17. I see no neutral things.

18. I am not alone in experiencing the effects of my seeing.

19. I am not alone in experiencing the effects of my thoughts.

20. I am determined to see.

21. I am determined to see things differently.

22. What I see is a form of vengeance.

23. I can escape from the world I see by giving up attack thoughts.

24. I do not perceive my own best interests.

25. I do not know what anything is for.

26. My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

27. Above all else I want to see.

28. Above all else I want to see things differently.

29. God is in everything I see.

30. God is in everything I see because God is in my mind.

31. I am not the victim of the world I see.

32. I have invented the world I see.

33. There is another way of looking at the world.

34. I could see peace instead of this.


The suggestion for daily practice is this:

Look at what is in front of you. Try to see it *without* the names, labels and stories you have imagined for it. Go blank verbally and let the thing be itself with no words. Just sink into meditating on whatever is before you as perceived by your 5 senses. If you are able, you may include "self," in this experiment. LOOK without words and what you were taught, is there any such thing as "table?" "Lamp?" Etc.

Notice that Thoughts Arise, but do not latch onto them. Let them pass. Question them if they are persistent. Such as, "This is a table. Is that true? How do I know this is a table? Who told me that? Does it exist whether I call it a "table" or not?"


This may be disturbing - as it was a couple of days ago. ACIM mentions this, as well. You might recall Lesson 153, "In my defenselessness, my safety lies." https://acim.org/acim/lesson-153/in-my ... /en/s/559

Check in every day. I'll be here (barring unforeseen circumstances). I can tell you that you will not die from this. Well, you will, in a sense, but you're not going to evaporate into nothing. There already is no self. You will only be noticing that for the first time in Age minus 1 or 2 years.

You may notice, as well, that nothing is static. It is all arising and passing away, even us. Ilona and others call it "Life life-ing." Let that flow take you. Relax into it. LOOK

Watch these 2 videos, also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNwhK2Ur1c&t=35s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB6oPN3Bz_Y

"A comfortable sense of leisure is essential." ACIM

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Thought is a garbage can. If you look into the garbage can, all you will get is garbage."

~ Adyashanti

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Re: Untie the lines! Stop shuffling and deal!

Postby CapnBoomer » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:58 am

Stacy, I am leisurely reading and rereading your latest comments. Will give the videos a little more attention in the morn. The Storm seems to be in abeyance at the moment. Perhaps in the eye of it all.
Buenos Noches

Benito
"The Dude Abides" The Big Lebowski


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