Experiencing, this thread is for you.

[experiencing]

Indeed, nothing.. This Is what I wanted you to see. Emptiness, space, void, nothing..
And then we have this- life, everything, this, that springs out of it.

So everything comes from nothing. When we did the fear exercise & the ‘I’ thought was not running here & it was seen that there was nothing… this is what I am in truth?

Let's examine thoughts. Tell me where they come from,

I don’t have a clue where thoughts come from. They just seem to ‘pop in.’ It feels like they happen randomly.

are you in control of thoughts,

I want to say ‘yes, of course’ I do feel some control... like when I have chosen to focus on problem solving... though I don't know what solution will pop in. Also if I was fully in control, there are certain thoughts I wouldn’t bother thinking… & certain times [of the day] when I’d rather not be thinking. That said, the controller is still a problem here.

do you know what the next thought will be before it shows up?

No, I don't know what the next thought will be.

Think of a number from 1 to thousand. Do you know what number pops in before it does, as in do you choose the number?

No, I don’t know what number will pop in.

Look at thoughts and see if you can find a thinker.

Hmmm… I am having trouble with this… feeling a bit resistant here.

Frustratingly, I can’t find a ‘thinker entity’ … BUT I think the thinker is in my head. Just like the understanding that I have a thyroid gland & it is located in my neck [even though I haven’t personally found/seen it]… so too, there is a thinker & it [energetically] is located in my head.

Many thanks for your time & the gift of exploration… sending love. :)

[Ilona]

Hm, interesting. The thinker is in your head.. How do you know?
There is brain in the skull and neurons in the body. Neurons receive the information and brain processes it, makes decisions and issues orders to act. Is this what you mean or is it some entity that sits in the control centre and commands the brain? does brain need a manager?

If you had to pinpoint location of thoughts, where would that be?
Have another good look, where do thoughts come from?

Keep digging :)
Much love.

[experiencing]

Cannot find a thinker in the head, brain, etc… & brain does not need a manager. It is managing quite well the typing of this reply.

I am not in control of thoughts… they come from the ‘nothingness, emptiness’ that life, everything springs out of… that space between thoughts... silence.

Sending lots of love with a hug.

[Ilona]

Beautiful.

What does the word I refer to?
Is there a me at all in any form or shape in reality?

Lots of love.

[experiencing]

The word ‘I’ refers to a thought. This ‘I’ thought is an imaginary fixed reference point for belief in/ownership of other thoughts.

While I have some understanding of this, there has not been a clear seeing of the ‘I’ thought as illusion. I also have some internal ‘mind commentary’ reinforcing my belief in the ‘I’ story.

Cannot find a ‘me’ at all in any form or shape except as a label. There also now has been some seeing that the brain/body can do many activities just fine without ‘me.’

Much love.

[Ilona]

Oh great! Yes you are looking right at it!
Let's keep going further.

Now look at the story. Can you see the main character in the story? The story is about 'experiencing'. If you look through the eyes of other characters, are they seeing the same story? What is the story from the point of view of her mum, partner, best friend, coworker, stranger on a street?

Is there a true story? Does the story change depending on mood? Does it change depending on how much time passed from the event in the story? Have a good look at that.

Is there an actress in the story that can choose the script?
What drives the story?

Write to me your observations.
Much love.

[experiencing]

Thanks for your encouragement.

Now look at the story. Can you see the main character in the story? The story is about 'experiencing'. If you look through the eyes of other characters, are they seeing the same story? What is the story from the point of view of her mum, partner, best friend, coworker, stranger on a street?

No, others’ story of me would be different & depend on their values, opinions, interactions, etc.

Is there a true story? Does the story change depending on mood? Does it change depending on how much time passed from the event in the story? Have a good look at that.

No, there is no one true story. The story does change with time, moods & beliefs. However regardless of whether the story is true or not, there is still the subtle thought that the “I”-author is still there… like a fixed reference.

That said, it has been seen here that if thinking stops for a minute, neither the ‘I’ or the story can be found and when the mind starts up again, so does the ‘I.’

Is there an actress in the story that can choose the script?

No, the actress in the story cannot choose the script though I would like to think that she has some control over her reaction to the events in the script.

What drives the story?

I would say the habit to maintain a separate identity.

I am thankful for your generosity in exploring this with me. Sending love.

[Ilona]

great work.

is there an author of the story? take a closer look.

sending love.

[experiencing]

Checked & found no direct knowing of a separate author of the story.

Can see where the ‘I’ is just a thought/concept.

Yet at times, this ‘I’ story can seem so real... having trouble fully realizing it is all unreal.

Not trying to be difficult… just honest.

Sending love & a hug.

[Ilona]

good good. yes, the illusion does not get destroyed it's only seen for what it is- an illusion. it is not going away, human experience is not going away. story is not going away. all is already as it should be.

what drops is just a belief, that the story is reality. that me is in charge of the story. that i is in charge of my life.

now turn to the real.
tell me what is real. as in what is here now experienced as real.

much love and a hug.
:)

[experiencing]

Your reassuring response was helpful… thanks.

What is experienced as real?

My immediate response was: seeing, hearing, breathing, thinking, typing, feeling in this moment.

Was about to post this, when got the thought... ‘what about this computer screen... isn’t it real?’ Then came – ‘what is real?’ If mind defines real, is it not just more thought?

So how to define/know what is real?

Lots of love.

[Ilona]

What is real is a whole new big question.
I borrowed definition of real from google
Real is that which does not dissapear if you stop believing in it.
So in that sense there is this reality and imaginary world.

But then, what is this reality if not images created by the brain which is also an image..
Perceiving, thinking, sensing all depend on images/ filters.
So ultimately nothing that we see or sense is real. But in this case of crossing gateless gate, the real is that which is not imaginary.

You can see the difference if you do this little experiment.
Imagine you touch a wall. Feel it's temprature, hardness, imagine you push against it, kick it, see it as vivid as you can.
Then stand by a real wall and feel it, kick it, see the difference?

This real wall is experienced through direct perception rather than image in a head.
For this stage it's all you need to know, but there is always further.

[experiencing]

Thanks… the definition was helpful.

In that case, anything I experience with my 5 senses in this moment would be considered real.

[experiencing]

On reflection, would prefer to answer:

In that case, anything directly experienced with the 5 senses in this moment would be considered real.

Removed the ‘I’ as it is not being experienced through direct perception in this moment.

[Ilona]

looks like you are ready to answer the final questions. take your time and write in full honesty, only what feels true to you. no rush.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see this?
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

looking forward to read your answers
much love.