The Gate

Hi Lee,

So basically, I exist as a robot with senses. Lee is real in the realm of the 5 senses.

Isn’t this just a logical, thought conclusion?

It’s very easy to fall into the trap of believing what thoughts offer. What we do here to question the validity of those.
So please go back and look with every question I gave you. Please make sure that you always look at and reply to every question I give you. Those are all pointers for you where to look. If you miss them, then you are depriving yourself from discovering something new.

Vivien

But HOW do you concentrate?
HOW do you put your attention to the breath?

To concentrate, I focus on the breath without thinking of any other things but the breath itself. Inhale and exhale is my only focus and that is how i concentrate

HOW do you concentrate? What do you do EXACTLY to concentrate on something?

I release my thoughts on other things but the thing i focus on. Now, I am typing these words with nothing else in my awareness. So this is how i focus on typing with my conputer. Same with other things in life.

Now, let’s look at…. Is an idea a REAL thing in reality? Or an idea is just a concept, but not a real thing?

An idea is a thought. A thought cannot be touched by my hand or seen by my physical eye. Ideas are mental structures in the brain that only mind can picture or conceive of.

Is the idea/thought of a chair a real chair?

No. It is merely a thought form in the mind.

Can you sit on the thought ‘chair’? Why not?

I can sit on the thought chair using a thought. BUT i cannot sit on a thought chait in my direct experience.

So the word/thought ‘chair’ POINTS TO a real think in experience that you can sit on. Can you see that?

Thinking experience of a chair is just that - but the reality of experiencing sitting on a thought chair is impossible. Hope that made sense.

But you cannot sit onto the thought/idea ‘chair’, right?

Yes, I cannot. It’s just an idea.

So, what about memory. It’s another thought/idea. What does the word/thought/idea point to in reality?

In reality, they are like air. It’s there but it cannot be there physically. They are merely ideas or thoughts. Memory is just thought, just ideas. Nothing more, nothing less.

Does it point to just more thoughts, more ideas, or does it point to real thing, a real place?

Yeah. I see it as that. Memory are like old movies in the brain. Just mental images and thoughts.

Now I am questioning...
Are these really from my direct experience or a new found belief? But then thought arises.... a belief is a thought and thought is not experience....

Hi Lee,

To concentrate, I focus on the breath without thinking of any other things but the breath itself. Inhale and exhale is my only focus and that is how i concentrate

This is not the description on the how. But we can put this aside for now. We will come back to this later.

I release my thoughts on other things

And HOW do you release a thought? Is this something you do, or releasing just happen on its own?

Ideas are mental structures in the brain that only mind can picture or conceive of.

HOW do you know that ideas are in the brain? – of course, this is what we learn in school. But this inquiry we have to put aside all learned second-hand information, only our own immediate experience can cut to the core.

Can you observe (literally) ideas being in the brain?
Or this is what you believe since you’ve learned it in school?

I can sit on the thought chair using a thought. BUT i cannot sit on a thought chait in my direct experience.

You say “I can sit on the thought chair using a thought” – are you sure about this? Is that person you imagine sitting on the imagined chair is you, or just an imagination?

Memory are like old movies in the brain. Just mental images and thoughts.

If you put aside all learned knowledge about the brain, HOW do you know that the mental movie is in the brain?
Go to the experience of your brain. How is it experienced?
Is it a color? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? or it’s impossible to experience your brain, you can only ever think of it and imagine it?

That's all there is to experience. Thoughts thought are real when it comes to thinking it. My experience are flavored by the thoughts. I won't know if i see green if the thought didn;t say it's green.

Yes, exactly.

My smeel won't recognize perfume if thoughts didn't say so. My words are nothing without thoughts.

Yes. Perfume is just a thought label on the experience of a smell, right?

I sense that thoughts are the drivers to my actions. And I still am stucked with the choosing the thought so the action is followed by Lee choosing the thought that comes....

Yes, we will deeply investigate actions and choices later.

Vivien

Hello Vivien!
Things have been kind of a struggle and i don’t know why. I tried to answer the questions but there are some questions that seemed like too complex. like the question how do you concentrate… I keep asking and asking and THERE’S NO ANSWER COMING. I realized I cannot know how to concentrate. It is vague to me all of a sudden and I do not know why. It seemed like I am out of words for that particular question. It is like i really don’t know.

And HOW do you release a thought? Is this something you do, or releasing just happen on its own?

Like I said with concentration, same with releasing. thoughts did not come from me and i figured that releasing happens when it happens. it is not me that releases it. It just appears to be.

Can you observe (literally) ideas being in the brain?
Or this is what you believe since you’ve learned it in school?

This is a belief. Without the things i learned in school, i can never see an idea, i can never know what a brain is in my direct experience that now is clearer to me. Everything about thought is a belief and a belief is a thought too.

You say “I can sit on the thought chair using a thought” – are you sure about this? Is that person you imagine sitting on the imagined chair is you, or just an imagination?
Ahh yeah… that is purely an imagination. Thought of me sitting on a chair is not really me. It is just an imagination.

Go to the experience of your brain. How is it experienced?
Is it a color? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? or it’s impossible to experience your brain, you can only ever think of it and imagine it?

I can never experience. my brain. I can only think it and imagine it.

Yes. Perfume is just a thought label on the experience of a smell, right?

yes! perfume and as well as everything. Thought labels are everything out there.

Thank you for your time answering my messages. It is getting clearer and clearer upon investigation

Hi Lee,

You did a nice investigation :)

I keep asking and asking and THERE’S NO ANSWER COMING. I realized I cannot know how to concentrate. It is vague to me all of a sudden and I do not know why. It seemed like I am out of words for that particular question. It is like i really don’t know.

Yes, and it’s quite telling. We assume that we are thinking, concentrating and doing things… but when we look closer, it turns out that this cannot be further from the truth.

This is important: A thought is DE (direct experience), it can be noticed right now, but its content isn't DE.
Think of yesterday’s dinner. There can be a picture brought up, smell and taste remembered, all content of a thought, but you won't be able to eat it right now.

And why? Since the dinner is not experienced, it’s not real.
Imagination is real, but not the dinner. Can you see this?

Please sit, doing nothing for a few minutes. Watch thoughts coming and going.

Can you trace a thought back to where it came?

In the same way, can you follow a thought to its destination?

Can you tell where thoughts come from and go to, without using any imagination or speculation?

Vivien

And why? Since the dinner is not experienced, it’s not real.
Imagination is real, but not the dinner. Can you see this?

Oh my goodness! Yes! Very clear! I can imagine dinner and all the details but it is not a direct experience and therefore it is not real. I can only IMAGINE but not eat dinner itself.

Please sit, doing nothing for a few minutes. Watch thoughts coming and going.
Can you trace a thought back to where it came?

This is what happened. I sat for few minutes and did nothing. A thought pops. Then another thought pops. Like a person's face. Then a thought of ''how did i remember this?'' ''oh from a movie yesterday i watched.'' ''where did that movie thought come from?'' I can only trace it as far but I CANNOT REALLY TRACE THE ORIGINS of where it originally came.

In the same way, can you follow a thought to its destination?

I can only guess. I tried doing that but it is an infinite thought after thought after thought like an endless stream of thought with no where to end.

Can you tell where thoughts come from and go to, without using any imagination or speculation?

This i am sure that I have no idea where thoughts come from and where they go to. I have no means to trace it at all.

Hi Lee,

You did a nice looking, but you replied quite quickly. I would like to ask you to do every inquiry for a whole day. Please don’t reply too quickly. Spend as much time as you can every day looking at that day’s pointers, again and again and again. You can have one or two longer sessions, but also please try to incorporate several small (10 seconds each) mini session into your daily life.

And when the reply seems to be clear, look more. Look at the same thing again and again.
It’s this continuous and repeated looking and looking again and again, what brings about the realization.

Try an experiment.

Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought comes?
What is making thoughts to appear?

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?

Vivien

Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

This is a good experiment! I can let's say think of an apple or say apple then an image of an apple is imagined. Then it stays for some time but later on it is mixed with other overlapping thoughts or disappears and comes back later throughout the day wow! Oh my! I noticed also that let's say i imagine of a life partner. Then imagination plays with marriage, and fantasies, and it reaches a saturation point or peak of like it has nothing to imagine or think about anymore - then it disappears without my effort.

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought comes?
What is making thoughts to appear?

I realized that I cannot trace the beginning of thought and its end. It is impossible to know what is the source or cause of thoughts - everything is just assumptions. Thoughts appear and I did not cause it (it is just a persistent or seemingly real that i am choosing the thought and i am causing it while i don't even have a grasp on it or i cannot even experience it directly).

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?

There is just the illusion of me preventing it to appear but in truth, I cannot prevent a thought from appearing because it wasn't even me who can trace its source. It is far from possible to do so. It is really impossible. Preventing a thought from appearing is just another thought. a futile attempt.

Hi Lee,

You did a nice investigation :)

I can let's say think of an apple or say apple then an image of an apple is imagined.

Let’s dig a bit deeper here.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought to think?

If I asked you to picture an orange, did you choose that thought, or did it come unbidden?
If I ask you not to think of pink elephants, what happens?

But let’s test the hypothesis that you are the one that has brought the imagined orange to the forefront of the mind as an image…that you have imagined the orange, that you thought that thought.

What process did you have to put into place in order to imagine the orange?

Describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought or an image. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. :)

So how do you do it? How do you create a thought, how do you create an image?
Please describe, step-by-step how you do this.

Where did you go to retrieve the thought/image of the orange in order to become aware of it?
Is there a storage container hidden somewhere that contains all thoughts and images from which you can then retrieve particular thoughts and images?
How then do you bring it from the container to the front of the mind in order to become aware of it?
Did you have anything to do with creating the image of the orange, or it simply appeared?

Vivien

Hello Vivein,

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought to think?

Actually, this is something i FOUND FASCINATING. It took me quite some time to realize the experience about this one. I found out that there seems to be a ''choosing'' that's happening but thoughts just appear in the first place. I tried experimenting. Let's go to the question next...

If I asked you to picture an orange, did you choose that thought, or did it come unbidden?
If I ask you not to think of pink elephants, what happens?

Thoughts about orange immediately appeared in the imagination just by you asking the question. I thought maybe thoughts appear dependent on external forces. I was running the treadmill yesterday with songs on my playlist and thoughts appear and disappear without effort. I can look at the gym equipments and either i have direct thoughts about it or I think of other things. It means it is not dependent also on outer stuff I am seeing. I experimented on a person I feel a bit aversive or resistant towards. I visit their news feed from time to time and. i noticed that I have different thoughts about the person at a different time. Made me realize these thoughts appear at their own accord and me clinging to it or accepting it as ''MY THOUGHT'' is another thought, a subtle thought perhaps that had been uninvestigated for all my existence.

What process did you have to put into place in order to imagine the orange?

if i did not see your question about orange, that thought probably might not be conceived. I did not do anything at all or any process. the image and word orange is like just appearing and hanging ''up there'' in the imagination... But for the sake of investigation... maybe the process is the eyes sees something, the hear hears sounds, the skin feels, the nose smells, and then thoughts appear out of nowhere then after the thoughts appearing, i do the choosing about what to do with the thought.
So you asked me to imagine orange - the question immediately gave birth or allowed the image of orange appear in my imagination and without my help or choice, it disappeared once i got distracted by other activities like Netflix movie or watching a youtube video...

Describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought or an image. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. :)
This is my experience... thoughts appear, let's say a thought about money appears. Then I choose to play around it but i did not cause it to happen. I just chose what i did after. I now play the imagination of me buying houses, cars, and stuff. I now imagine and create what to do with the thoughts that appear.

So how do you do it? How do you create a thought, how do you create an image? (STEP BY STEP)
1. Thoughts appear - not me choosing what thought (or sometimes depends on what i see outside). Like if a friend leaves me, a thought about sad stories appear
2. After the thoughts appear, i play with it through imagination and i can either distract myself through action or doing other activities, or ruminate on the play of thoughts. But
3. Thoughts leaves without my help though - i don't know if this makes sense BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE ONLY CHOICE. I HAVE IS WHAT I DO WITH THE THOUGHTS THAT APPEAR AND DISAPPEAR (it's like i am the in between of disappearance and appearance) - the before and after is just a spontaneous random thought flowing in and out of my imagination.

Where did you go to retrieve the thought/image of the orange in order to become aware of it?

It appeared immediately as you asked me to imagine orange - it was dependent on me reading your question. If you did not ask me, i may or may not be able to think of orange.

Is there a storage container hidden somewhere that contains all thoughts and images from which you can then retrieve particular thoughts and images?

Literally, there is no hidden container of thoughts and images. But we call it MEMORY - the memory and knowledge of the object orange is stored and now after thousands of years we call it orange because it was taught to us about its name and its form and then LABEL IT ORANGE. Same with other labels - passed on to us generation to generation.

How then do you bring it from the container to the front of the mind in order to become aware of it?

AHHH Good question - that is an impossible thing to do. Since there is no container, i would say it just appeared because it was taught to me that orange is an orange - but there literally is no cintainer of memories at all. I just remember events through imagination.

Did you have anything to do with creating the image of the orange, or it simply appeared?

The only thing I have to do is the in between - the appearance and disappearance of thoughts are not in my control. I can only do something about it when i am aware of its appearance and the disappearance is not on my control too

Hi Lee,

BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE ONLY CHOICE. I HAVE IS WHAT I DO WITH THE THOUGHTS THAT APPEAR AND DISAPPEAR

Are you really sure about this? Can you actually do anything with a thought? HOW? Do you grab it by hand and make changes of it? :) Or how exactly?

After the thoughts appear, i play with it through imagination and i can either distract myself through action or doing other activities, or ruminate on the play of thoughts.

When there is distraction, is that something you do, do you choose distraction, or distraction happens on its own?

When there is rumination, is that something you do, or rumination happens on its own, thought by thought, one thought at a time?

Literally, there is no hidden container of thoughts and images. But we call it MEMORY - the memory and knowledge of the object orange is stored and now after thousands of years we call it orange because it was taught to us about its name and its form and then LABEL IT ORANGE. Same with other labels - passed on to us generation to generation.

In this investigation, we are look for the literal, real things. Yes, we use the concept of memory in everyday life, but is there a real think, or just a concept, trying to explain how thoughts appear?

You see, we are differentiating between reality and fictional concepts.

AHHH Good question - that is an impossible thing to do. Since there is no container, i would say it just appeared because it was taught to me that orange is an orange - but there literally is no cintainer of memories at all. I just remember events through imagination.

But how do you do that? How do you remember? What do you do to remember?

Is remembering how an orange look like is your doing, or you have nothing to do with it, you only ever aware of the image of the orange when it’s already there/present?

The only thing I have to do is the in between - the appearance and disappearance of thoughts are not in my control. I can only do something about it when i am aware of its appearance and the disappearance is not on my control too

Are you sure that even that is your doing?
Can you actually do something with a thought when is there?

Let’s say there is a thought ‘I like oranges’. What can you do with this thought?
You can change the word ‘orange’ to ‘apples’? Would that be your doing? Or that also happens on its own?

“I like apples’ is the same thought as ‘I like oranges’? Or the thought ‘I like oranges’ first has to subside, and then a new thought emerge with the content “I like apples’?
So are any of these your doing?

When there is a thought “I like oranges” then a mental image of an orange can appear. But is that image your doing?
You are the one changing the verbal thought to a pictorial thought?
Or the verbal thought disappears on its own, and a new pictorial thought about an orange appeared on its own, without you doing anything at all?

Vivien

Hi Vivien! I think I made an EPIPHANY or shall I say, epiphany happened through...
I will explain by answering the questions...

Are you really sure about this? Can you actually do anything with a thought? HOW? Do you grab it by hand and make changes of it? :) Or how exactly?

Wow! I cannot answer the HOW because of this one... See my experiment below... This is how i found out that i cannot do anything with a thought:
I am so sure that I am not choosing the thoughts to think . . . And it was only yesterday after the experiment and investigation I did that confirmed it. Thoughts just appear and disappear out of nowhere. This was my experiment. I Tried saying ''THINK OF ______'' I tried adding anything i can in the blank - I found out that even before I added the word, the word was even appearing already. Like to explain further, there was no thinker to think of thought. I tried saying ''THINK OF MONEY'' The ''MONEY'' is not a thought I created... iT JUST APPEARED without my effort. Then I tried playing around the thought MONEY and I realized it was not me playing with the thoughts, it was just imaginations playing itself out automatically without my effort.

When there is distraction, is that something you do, do you choose distraction, or distraction happens on its own?

Somehow, this one scared me... Scared in a way that I realized how life is just happening - even distractions. I was like wow. All this time, I thought i was in control. I tried moving my hands and from the experiment above, I am still trying to move past that. I AM SO SURE THAT THOUGHTS HAPPEN, RUMINATION HAPPEN, AND THOUGHTS DISAPPEAR WITHOUT ME CAUSING IT TO HAPPEN.

When there is rumination, is that something you do, or rumination happens on its own, thought by thought, one thought at a time?

RUMINATION HAPPEN ON ITS OWN - I am sure. Thought by thought or one thought at a time - it varies. Sometimes thoughts are overlapping each other sometimes one at a time, sometimes no thought - and I am pretty sure I have no means of controlling thoughts or navigating thoughts - they just are like ''there''. The only control i have are my ACTIONS. MY ACTIONS ARE LIKE MY DOING AND THERE IS A BACKGROUND - The backdrop or the background are my thoughts - thoughts are not in my control - only my actions.

In this investigation, we are look for the literal, real things. Yes, we use the concept of memory in everyday life, but is there a real think, or just a concept, trying to explain how thoughts appear?

oh yeah... everything are just concepts created by thought without me doing anything - my doing is just believing the thoughts and concepts and the rest are just background noise so to speak.

But how do you do that? How do you remember? What do you do to remember?

Is remembering how an orange look like is your doing, or you have nothing to do with it, you only ever aware of the image of the orange when it’s already there/present?

now i am so sure that none of that was my doing as i mentioned above

Are you sure that even that is your doing?
Can you actually do something with a thought when is there?

Let’s say there is a thought ‘I like oranges’. What can you do with this thought?
You can change the word ‘orange’ to ‘apples’? Would that be your doing? Or that also happens on its own?

“I like apples’ is the same thought as ‘I like oranges’? Or the thought ‘I like oranges’ first has to subside, and then a new thought emerge with the content “I like apples’?
So are any of these your doing?

When there is a thought “I like oranges” then a mental image of an orange can appear. But is that image your doing?
You are the one changing the verbal thought to a pictorial thought?
Or the verbal thought disappears on its own, and a new pictorial thought about an orange appeared on its own, without you doing anything at all?

In summary, I think i have come to a point where this experiment shattered my belief that I am the controller of my thought. Now I realized that thoughts are just like my heart beat and breath that just happens without me doing anything - they just do what they do. The only doing I can control is my action - sitting, standing, singing, dancing, cleaning, reading, and all but not THINKING.

Hi Lee,

You did a really nice investigation :)

In summary, I think i have come to a point where this experiment shattered my belief that I am the controller of my thought. Now I realized that thoughts are just like my heart beat and breath that just happens without me doing anything - they just do what they do.

Nice :) Now, it’s important to look at these again and again. Make sure that you don’t fall into the trap of relying on the memory of a previous looking, since then that would be just a belief in that moment. Either you can see this in any given moment, or you just believing it. So make sure that you are repeatedly looking at this, and seeing it again and again, hundreds of times.

So look at this more and let me know what you find.

Sometimes thoughts are

overlapping

each other
Are you sure about this?
Can you have more than one thought at a time?
Can the thoughts/words of apple and orange be present at exact same time?
And can you have two mental images, like the image of an apple and an orange be there at the same time?

oh yeah... everything are just concepts created by thought without me doing anything - my doing is just believing the thoughts and concepts and the rest are just background noise so to speak.

Are you sure that even believing a thought is your doing?
How do you make the decision whether to believe a thought or not?
How do you believe or not believe a fearful thought, or a happy thought?

The only control i have are my ACTIONS. MY ACTIONS ARE LIKE MY DOING AND THERE IS A BACKGROUND - The backdrop or the background are my thoughts - thoughts are not in my control - only my actions.
The only doing I can control is my action - sitting, standing, singing, dancing, cleaning, reading, and all but not THINKING.

We will come back to this later.

Vivien

Good Day Vivien!

Before I answer all these in typing, I must say, this is one of the shell breaking experiments. It kind of confused me in a way but then realized there's nothing to be confused about any of it. It brought so much clarity. To be honest I thought there was a bit of fear - like the fear of not being in control perhaps. Is that normal?

...Now, it’s important to look at these again and again. Make sure that you don’t fall into the trap of relying on the memory of a previous looking, since then that would be just a belief in that moment. Either you can see this in any given moment, or you just believing it. So make sure that you are repeatedly looking at this, and seeing it again and again, hundreds of times.

So look at this more and let me know what you find.

Oh yeah! Wow! I have looked at this over and over and I can definitely say that I have no control over thoughts. Thoughts just happen and no controller or thinker. No me thinking it. How am i sure? I was tested yesterday. Someone commented on my post that triggered my anger. I looked at it deeper and closely. Upon reading the comment, I was easily angered, emotions of heavy feelings. Looking back at it, I could have reacted differently but i didn't. I even tried experimenting and looking deeper at my actions. Oh my... this is the scary part. I opened YouTube and chose songs to watch and videos and then I realized ''There was a ''decisioner'' before I made the decision - and it was not me. This is the same as ''I will think of _____'' and thoughts just happen. Now it's like ''I will do ______'' and doing just happens. The scary part is - there was really no ''me'' - like there was an immediate thought - SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT WHATEVER WILL HAPPEN TO THIS BODY, I HAVE NO SAY OR CONTROL ABOUT WHAT IT DOES?'' LIKE IF IT'S MEANT TO DIE TOMORROW IT WILL? I know death is a reality for all humans. But the freedom from this is that I have nothing to worry about because

there is no doer of deeds and thinker of thoughts.

On overlapping thoughts...
Are you sure about this?
Can you have more than one thought at a time?
Can the thoughts/words of apple and orange be present at exact same time?
And can you have two mental images, like the image of an apple and an orange be there at the same time?

This is another mind-blowing experiment wow! I tried over and over and over and over.... I even justified well, i can picture apple and orange in one mental image. I tried doing that. I even did imaging one fruit basket with a lot of fruits in it and this is what I found out.
1. Apple and Orange - I can picture it in one mental image but there is a split kind of microsecond that thoughts switch from orange to apple or apple to orange. And even if i imagine apple and orange beside each other, thoughts still saw something came first then another - it is a rapid switch and there can be an illusion of overlapping thoughts but not. Sometimes I am kind of asking, let's say I am looking at a TV Show... I am seeing a movie but a thought can be different - so seeing and thinking is different but there's no overlap at all. EVEN THE FRUIT BASKET MENTAL PICTURE. There can be thoughts about fruit basket but once fruits inside are imagined, it cannot be all fruits at once - it is one fruit after another.

Are you sure that even believing a thought is your doing?

Oh I tried experimenting this... At first i was sure. I thought at the beginning that when a thought arises and I FEEL GOOD OR LESS RESISTANT ABOUT it, then I am believing it... and if there is a thought and I feel RESISTANT AND MAD about it, I don't believe it.... BUT THEN I LOOKED DEEPER AND DEEPER...

How do you make the decision whether to believe a thought or not?

but now upon looking deeper, ... i saw that believing just happens - no arbiter of a me to believe. accepting a thought happens, rejecting a thought happens and it does what it does on its own....

How do you believe or not believe a fearful thought, or a happy thought?

A fearful thought appears, AN EMOTION is felt in the heart, then sensations come after sometimes, then the action - it is flowing that way. Same as happiness - thoughts happen about something funny (or if someone tells a joke) and then heart feels good. Laughing happens and then believing ''I AM SO HAPPY ABOUT THIS JOKE OR THIS IDEA OR THOUGHT'' The only believing is the ''I AM thought'' Like if let's say I cannot have the capacity to think, there won't be any belief. And if belief is also a thought. Now i am seeing clearly that beliefs are not my doing but beliefs are just believing whatever and I can only witness - however, i noticed that even witnessing just happens because upon looking deeper and deeper, the senses, thoughts, feelings, and all of that is shedding off from the identification with the ''I''

-- I am kind of in a crossroads now of ''what do i do now that there is no ''me''? it seems like i have nothing to do with everything that is happening. Thoughts happen without me, feelings react without me, sensations happen without me, even perceptions as well. My state is like "now what?" what should i do if there's no Lee at all... what is the meaning of life and all?

Hi Lee,

To be honest I thought there was a bit of fear - like the fear of not being in control perhaps. Is that normal?

Yes, fear is not uncommon. It happens when the glimpses of seeing is being interpreted through the lens of a separate self. Fear is the result of thoughts about negative consequences of seeing that things just happen, without a doer.

So what is your story? What would happen if it really turned out that things just happen automatically, without a doer?

SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT WHATEVER WILL HAPPEN TO THIS BODY, I HAVE NO SAY OR CONTROL ABOUT WHAT IT DOES?'' LIKE IF IT'S MEANT TO DIE TOMORROW IT WILL?

This question based on the assumption that there is a self, there is a me somewhere, probably in the body, but this self has no control over what happens to this body. So the fear comes that there is a person, an I, Lee, somewhere in the body being at danger.

But where is the I/me that has no control?
Is there an entity, a person called Lee, somewhere inside the body, without any control?
Or this entity, Lee, is just an imagined character?

Apple and Orange - I can picture it in one mental image but there is a split kind of microsecond that thoughts switch from orange to apple or apple to orange. And even if i imagine apple and orange beside each other, thoughts still saw something came first then another - it is a rapid switch and there can be an illusion of overlapping thoughts but not.

Yes, there can have only one thought at a time. And is that switching is actually a switching, or there is an image of an apple, then it disappears, suddenly appears the image of an orange, then that is gone. Another image of an apple shows up, then it’s gone. Orange image, then it’s gone. So not real switching, but coming and disappearing, coming and disappearing, emerging and subsiding, very quickly?

EVEN THE FRUIT BASKET MENTAL PICTURE. There can be thoughts about fruit basket but once fruits inside are imagined, it cannot be all fruits at once - it is one fruit after another.

Yes, you did a nice investigation.

i saw that believing just happens - no arbiter of a me to believe. accepting a thought happens, rejecting a thought happens and it does what it does on its own....

Yes! Nice looking :)

Now i am seeing clearly that beliefs are not my doing but beliefs are just believing whatever and I can only witness - however, i noticed that even witnessing just happens because upon looking deeper and deeper, the senses, thoughts, feelings

Yes, even witnessing just happens :)

So is there an actual witness? A person behind thoughts and experiences, witnessing the whole thing, witnessing life?
Or witnessing is part of the flow of life, as a happening?

-- I am kind of in a crossroads now of ''what do i do now that there is no ''me''? it seems like i have nothing to do with everything that is happening. Thoughts happen without me, feelings react without me, sensations happen without me, even perceptions as well. My state is like "now what?" what should i do if there's no Lee at all... what is the meaning of life and all?

Look… who is asking this question?
Is there a person being disappointed about this?

Is there someone wanting meaning?

Was there ever Lee in reality? Or this has never been any other way?

Does life need a meaning or purpose?
Or life is totally satisfied with itself, and only a person wants something from himself, wanting to gain and achieve things, what then it would call ‘the meaning of my life’?

Vivien