Requesting Guide

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:32 am

Hi Karen,

thank you for sharing these with me.

You experienced different states - sadness, love etc..there are all very beautiful, but don't cling to them. We don't explore these here, because all states are subject to change, they all come and go.
What we investigate is is there an I, a separate entity, separate from all at all

I would like to invite you to look for this one.

Is there an experiencER, separate from the experience?
Where?
Is there someone or something to whom the experiences are happening?

Invited this energy to rest in the light of Awareness
What is "the light of awareness" when you observe it in this very moment?
How the light of awareness is experienced exactly?


Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:58 pm

Hi Luchana,
Is there an experiencER, separate from the experience?
Where?
Is there someone or something to whom the experiences are happening?
This one seems difficult. It was interesting that a beautiful feeling was there when the appearance occurred, yet the resulting energy (no feeling-just energy) was pounding in the chest area - so much so that there was identity with the body & it was scary. It happened again yesterday for no reason - was peaceful & nothing going on when it occurred....again became frightening & lasted more than an hour. Felt like a release at the end (of stuck energy).
Sitting with again today with questions....
What is "the light of awareness" when you observe it in this very moment?
How the light of awareness is experienced exactly?
Yesterday, in the intensity it seemed like Awareness was a watcher and the experience was separate. Sitting today with Awaring being one with the experience of the ‘torso’ energy....including sights and sounds...indivisible field. inquiring what is behind the energy. It is still difficult...the energy is sooo intense again - difficult not to identify with the body. ugh!

Thank you so very much for your guidance!
~ Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:17 pm

Hi Karen,

I have a request:
Please don't bulk-reply, but reply to every quesion one-by-one. From now on it’s important that you reply to every quesion individualy. The reason I ask you this is that each quesion is a pointer for you where to look, so please anwer every question one-by-one.
Please read all the questions from my previos message and reply them this way.

Together with them let's have a look here:
in the intensity it seemed like Awareness was a watcher and the experience was separate.

And HOW do you know that?

It seems like that or it is like that?

What is it that suggest that awareness is a watcher?

How is this watcher itself experienced?

As a thought? As a sensation? As an imagination?

Can you even find this awareness/watcher?

Or you can only THINK of it, and IMAGINE it?

And what is separared from what exactly?


Please look vigilantly for a whole day and don't rely what thoughts bring about. Just look at the simplicity here now.

Take your time.
Thank you so very much for your guidance!
you're welcome :-)

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:58 pm

Hi Luchana,
Apologies....I was distraught over the intensity and didn’t know how to respond previously. I think now you are asking me to go back to 1/22 and answer those questions first...before answering your 1/23 questions...so here goes.

1/22 re fear / intense energies arising
Is there an experiencER, separate from the experience?
Looking now....No.
Where?
. Nowhere
Is there someone or something to whom the experiences are happening?
. No. But Body identity arose when it seemed the me was going to have a heart attack the other day.:)



1/23:
Together with them let's have a look here:
re Karen’s 1/22 statement ‘in the intensity it seemed like Awareness was a watcher and the experience was separate’
And HOW do you know that?
. I don’t really
It seems like that or it is like that?
. Seems
What is it that suggest that awareness is a watcher?
. Nothing. There was NOT a knowing of the whole no-thing field (including body, thoughts; sensations) at the time, so I apparently was in body identity/thought making up a story about awareness just in the background...aware of a sensation.
How is this watcher itself experienced?
. Not experienced
As a thought? As a sensation? As an imagination?
. Oh my,...Imagination
Can you even find this awareness/watcher?
. No
Or you can only THINK of it, and IMAGINE it?
. Yes....only think & imagine. 🙃
And what is separared from what exactly?
. Nothing really separate. it just felt like that in the intensity.

Thank you for sticking with me on this. 💗
Much appreciated,
~Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:47 am

Hi Karen,
Is there an experiencER, separate from the experience?
Looking now....No.
Where?
.
Nowhere
You did a good looking :-)
. No. But Body identity arose when it seemed the me was going to have a heart attack the other day.:)
Who or what is bringing this information "the me was going to have a heart attack"?

Let's investigate now in this moment, never rely on memory, check now with the eyes closed:

How is it known that the sensation which is experienced right now is between the bump and the chair?
Who or what brings that information?
Can the sensation say "Hey, I am the sensation "bump on the chair?"

Investigate with curiosity also:

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

As a thought? As a sensation? As an imagination?
. Oh my,...Imagination
You did an excellent observation :-)
We can use words and labels for communication, that is ok. But when we LOOK in reality - "awareness" is nowhere to be found out of the thought about "awareness". It's just very common spiritaul beliefe, but when it is looked at - it it is seen for what it is - just a word, a label and nothing more.

Can you cleary see this?

Thank you for sticking with me on this. 💗
Much appreciated,
It is a joy when there is an openness and willingness to look :- )
So thank you for the LOOKING and keep vigilance.

Much love.
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:06 am

Hi Karen,

are you still with me?

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:08 am

Hi Luchana,

Thanks for checking in with me. 💗 Reactions and stuff going on here that seemed to cause a set-back,...painful
defense mechanism popping up about what ‘he’ said to me....then auto-reacting.... so been sitting with that.
Back to prior chat about sensations...
Who or what is bringing this information?
The me. :)
Let's investigate now in this moment, never rely on memory, check now with the “eyes closed:”
How is it known that the sensation which is ‘experienced right now’ is between the bump and the chair?
Not known
Who or what brings that information?
Can’t find
Can the sensation say "Hey, I am the sensation "bump on the chair?"
No. :-)
Investigate with curiosity also:
In the “actual experience” does the body have a shape or a form?
No...with eyes closed- just a few sensations
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No
Is there an inside or an outside?
No
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
No inside
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
no outside...no boundaries
We can use words and labels for communication, that is ok. But when we LOOK in reality - "awareness" is nowhere to be found out of the thought about "awareness". It's just very common spiritaul beliefe, but when it is looked at - it it is seen for what it is - just a word, a label and nothing more.

Can you cleary see this?
Yes...relief to get out of awareness watching awareness thought practice.
The inquiries really helped me look in a different way & sense of trapped energy dissipated. :)

It is a joy when there is an openness and willingness to look :- )
So thank you for the LOOKING and keep vigilance.
So much gratitude. Thank you again.
~Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:41 am

Hi Karen,
Thanks for checking in with me. 💗
Focus in very much needed in this investigation, so willigness for everyday posting.
But you don't have to do this if you don't want, we can stop this in any time.
Reactions and stuff going on here that seemed to cause a set-back,...painful
defense mechanism popping up about what ‘he’ said to me....then auto-reacting.... so been sitting with that.
Back to prior chat about sensations...
Do you have an expectation that reactions and stuff will stop going on? Why would they? Emotional triggers, reactions will still happen. The question here is - is there something or someone to whom they happen?

Everytime when it seems that there is a setback - pause for a minute and check:

Who or what is setting-back precisely?


Most of your answers are not coming from looking and are too short It's like to are hurring to write the reply. But it is not going to work like this You need to do the work, Karen. You have to look, literally.

Who or what is bringing this information?
The me. :)
But what is this me? Let's find out.

How does it show up in experience when you observe it now in this very moment?

Can it be seen, traced back from where it has come?

When you find it - point to its precise location.

Don't just think about it, rather LOOK:

Is there something here, something solid,
and how is it experienced exactly?


Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:15 am

Hi Luchana,
Focus in very much needed in this investigation, so willigness for everyday posting.
But you don't have to do this if you don't want, we can stop this in any time.
I do want to do this. i didn’t realize it was a requirement to post everyday. i felt the need to regroup for a few days after the triggers....will re-adjust. :)
Do you have an expectation that reactions and stuff will stop going on? Why would they? Emotional triggers, reactions will still happen
yes I did (although I know I shouldn’t). yet seeing there was no me....then having big reactions occur seemed to bring re-identification - brought on doubt, sadness, depression, and judgment of ‘myself’.
Losing those expectations...and seeing differently now.
The question here is - is there something or someone to whom they happen?
Have been spending much more time looking now since that happened....and sensing everything in a sense of an open field...rather than a body. like an alive, loving field. It’s all ok.
Everytime when it seems that there is a setback - pause for a minute and check:
Who or what is setting-back precisely?
Thank you.... will remember that. When I pause and inquire there is peace.
Most of your answers are not coming from looking and are too short It's like to are hurring to write the reply. But it is not going to work like this You need to do the work, Karen. You have to look, literally.
Although my answers were short, I did spend a lot of time looking. I thought short, simple answers were preferred in some direct questions. I do very much appreciate you letting me know where it is apparent answers were/are not from looking. :)
But what is this me? Let's find out.
How does it show up in experience when you observe it now in this very moment?
Right now...dejected feeling arising....but not identifying with it.
Don't just think about it, rather LOOK:
Extended Looking...seeing as one open field of knowing (by no one). there is a sense of okayness even with emotions arising. all in this field is equal....tv, dresser, bed, body, floor....all Love.
Can it be seen, traced back from where it has come?

the same knowing field was there when I was a child, in high school, and various other apparent times in life...all that is certain is there was a constant unchanging knowing or aware field.....so can’t be traced back from where it came.
When you find it - point to its precise location.
It seems similar to like being in a night dream, so no location.
Don't just think about it, rather LOOK:
It is like this room & everything here is in me, consciousness..along with this body, sensations and sounds happening. nowhere.
i apparently have lived in various cities, a different country, but don’t know if I actually went, or was, anywhere. just like travelling happens to different countries in my night time dreams....but I actually go nowhere - no time or distance....no world...just an appearance apparently happening.
Is there something here, something solid,
and how is it experienced exactly?
Feels less solid....like floating while lying on bed...in Consciousness.


Thank you, 💗
~Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:01 pm

Hi Karen,
I do want to do this. i didn’t realize it was a requirement to post everyday. i felt the need to regroup for a few days after the triggers....will re-adjust. :)
I'm glad to read this. Well, it is not a requirement, but everyday posting helps a lot. It really keep focus.
yet seeing there was no me....then having big reactions occur seemed to bring re-identification - brought on doubt, sadness, depression, and judgment of ‘myself’.
Losing those expectations...and seeing differently now.
Seeing that there is no me is not a one time event. It is just a recognition that there was none, never. Not that there was a self and now it is gone.

Can you see this?
Extended Looking...seeing as one open field of knowing (by no one). there is a sense of okayness even with emotions arising. all in this field is equal....tv, dresser, bed, body, floor....all Love.
It is like this room & everything here is in me, consciousness..along with this body, sensations and sounds happening. nowhere.
i apparently have lived in various cities, a different country, but don’t know if I actually went, or was, anywhere. just like travelling happens to different countries in my night time dreams....but I actually go nowhere - no time or distance....no world...just an appearance apparently happening.
Oh, such a beautiful and loving experience. Enjoy it, while it lasts :-)
Can you check:

Is there an experiencER of this experience?

To whom is it happening?

What I would suggest is now (or later:-) go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Karen am sitting here, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.
Look at what is present and answer these questions:

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?

Does the character choose this story?

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?

Can the story of Karen be seen as what it is - just a story, including Karen?

Feels less solid....like floating while lying on bed...in Consciousness.
What is the difference betweeen the labels "awareness" and "Consciousness"?
Just check :-)

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:09 am

Hi Luchana,
Seeing that there is no me is not a one time event. It is just a recognition that there was none, never. Not that there was a self and now it is gone.
Can you see this?
Yes. tricky habitual mind. Profundity of your statement and question. Thank you!
Oh, such a beautiful and loving experience. Enjoy it, while it lasts :-)
Can you check:
Is there an experiencER of this experience?
No. asking what’s sensing, what’s hearing, what’s seeing - nothing but peace. I find it much easier to see there is not an experiencer of the experience when the experience is good. :)
Hopefully, that seeing will help when the tables are turned and it is a ‘bad’ experience.
To whom is it happening?
No one...just happening
What I would suggest is now (or later:-) go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts ‘including the thought of I, Karen am sitting here’, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.
Look at what is present and answer these questions:
Reading ‘including the though of I, Karen’....... was a show stopper for a long minute. 💗
Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
definitely not. character would choose feeling peace & love; choose happy thoughts all the time...walk every day. That certainly doesn’t happen. :) noticed today on my walk, after sitting a while, that the body got up at some juncture to leave without me thinking about it. That was an eye opener.
Does the character choose this story?
heck no! :).
Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?
No....Can’t change the canvas of one happening. i can see now it is rather arrogant to think I ever could.
or that I needed to change/fix myself. or that others could be other than what they are.
Can the story of Karen be seen as what it is - just a story, including Karen?
Yes....just a story. Seems like Karen/everything could be like a dream - one happening - in God/Universal Consciousness- unknown Mystery. There is no Karen...so no past....no world. just unconditional love...no good or bad, when in that placeless place. yet there also seems to be a brain playing back what it was fed from family, past experiences, culture, etc., making the experience of this Karen character & world seem real at times. this is all gibberish but is what seems to be like here.

I guess frequent being in the one unknown happening is the most important? So passionate for this, I walked today even though freezing -and this character seldom walks, so don’t know how that happened. :)

What is the difference betweeen the labels "awareness" and "Consciousness"?
Just check :-)
I don’t know. everything is concepts - words picked up from teachers. labels put on everything. maybe more like a ‘felt sense of Knowing’ when being nothing. i know I really don’t know anything....except freedom when being in the one apparent happening. 💗

Thank you so much for your clarity & guidance...much appreciated. 💗
~Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:17 pm

Hi Karen,

you did a very good looking :-)

I can sense the softness and calmness in your reply.

Let's dig a liitle bit deeper.
yet there also seems to be a brain playing back what it was fed from family, past experiences, culture, etc., making the experience of this Karen character & world seem real at times. this is all gibberish but is what seems to be like here.
Can you make a difference what is real an what is not?
There is the story about Karen, and there is also what is here, so where is the story, can it be touched ot captured?
Is there someone or something for whom the brain is planning, for whom thoughts with stories are coming?
Where is this one? Can it be found out of the content of thought?

making the experience of this Karen character & world seem real at times
Let's look closely, how Karen is experienced?
Are there thoughts (not content, not stories, just thoughts) ?
Can Karen be a thought, or there is just an expirience of thought?
Are there feelings/sensations? Yes, the sensations are real.
Can Karen be a feeling/sensation? Or the feelings/sensations are just an expirience of feelings/sensations?

So the experience of Karen is an expirience of thoughts + experience of sensations.

Can you see that these two are the story creator, something like here is the unreal story + real sensations?
Play with this, look for stories and notice what is real, and what is creating the story.
Is there a believer in the story?
I don’t know. everything is concepts - words picked up from teachers. labels put on everything. maybe more like a ‘felt sense of Knowing’ when being nothing. i know I really don’t know anything....except freedom when being in the one apparent happening. 💗
What a beautiful insight :-) yea, when we realise that we don't know anything at all and we can ONLY trust our own experience ... feels like freedom.
Thank you so much for your clarity & guidance...much appreciated. 💗
A smile and love back.

Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:30 pm

Hi Luchana,

i just sent you an email.

Thanks much!
~Karen

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Luchana
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Luchana » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:22 pm

Hi Karen,

as we both agree on our last chat - here are the final questions.

Don't rush, take your time and reply as fully as you see it now. Also provide examples where are asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5a. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
5b. What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Nokay
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Re: Requesting Guide

Postby Nokay » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:11 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No :) Never was. Nothing ever really happened. 🙏
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience.
basically stems from thought - I think I am so I am....from the first label of a name at very early age....more thoughts/labels piled on....created an imaginary self....thinking it was doer, chooser, controller. Self can’t set imaginary self free...so seeking to improve the character self was only reinforcing the sense of a separate self.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Liberating.... relief. Slowing down and release of stress in the body. Compassion. Humility
the things that appear to be happening in experience, are seen now to be by no one....unless thought comes in after and claims ownership.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
The sensations were a hurdle .... took deep looking to see through.
5a. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
No free will, choice or control...no me running show to have. i can’t decide what my next thought will be. I could see the me thinking it was making a firm decision on something but opposite would happen....same with intention. Life Lifing. No good or bad. I don’t choose to have unhappy thoughts or be sad. People don’t choose to be bad. Don’t know how it happens or works, but what’s happening seems similar to a night time dream where things/feelings seem to be happening in imaginary places with imaginary people. no time or space....just stillness with apparent movement.

Compassion for what seemed to have happened in apparent past. Emotions allowed and embraced by Aliveness, instead of repressing or pushing away. sense of Okayness with what arises now...doesn’t always feel right or good, but What is IS.
No free will seen for anyone, so less judgment of apparent others & more compassion. Peace happens. Seems to come and go with intensities in relative world...but obvious it is and always has been the same...no separation.

When there is no thought of a me here, no-thing is happening.... Just seeing, hearing, sensing, cognizing happening - all one indivisble formless whole....no inner-outer. When I ask if there is no problem to solve, what is Here Now? There is a felt sense of unconditional love. Be Still and Know God IS...What Is. All equal appearances.

As Jesus said, Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you Free. Devotion/Bhakti to This. No more seeking for what IS already.

5b. What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
Really, nothing. No one here to be responsible. When I started this work, the me held herself very responsible for reactions like anger....then self-judgment arose....”I” should know/be better. now there is a sense it happens and then it falls away - sinking in to What Is. seen that shame/blame towards myself or others doesn’t make sense. As more melting seems to happen, less reactions happen, less intensity.
6) Anything to add?
MUCH appreciation and love to Luchana for all her patience and guidance. So much gratitude for the magnitude of the giving of her time...what a beautiful gift. Thank you Luchana and Liberation Unleashed!!!
Much Love,
~Karen


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