Hello

[Jadzia]

Labels and names and dates pop up to describe what is

Yes, one of the main functions of thoughts.
Is the description of something the something? Like is the word apple the apple? No, you already see that it is just a describtion.
Does that what is labeled knows what it is called? Does the know it is apple?

Can a thought/word describe reality as it is? Can words do this?
Look at the word university. Strictly speaking there is no university. What is there are students, a building, books, rooms and so on, right? Universitiy is an abstract for a lot of different things

Take something into your hand, an apple, or what is at hand. What is known? An apple?
Have a look what do you find in your direct experience (colour/form, smell, taste, physical feeling, noise)?
Does the label describe what it labels, or is it just an abstract?

What is Arthur in DE?

Fear from changing the pattern.

So it seems as if the fear is trying to protect something, right? That is ok.
Have you looked behind it?
This isn't an intellectual excercise, it is really looking, observing, asking.

The components holding the character together feels sad to see that it's merely a story, as though it lost a part of its identity.

Can a component feel sad or is there simply sadness which wants to be acknowledged?

Living in some ways means allowing all there is. Nothing is better or lesser just thoughts tell so.
lets look at emotion. It is there maybe as physical sensation (here heaviness in the chest) but sure a thought label (fear).
No need for explainations, these are story, they can be fun, appear, but there is no need for seeking them.
All that is needed is allowing, embracing, loving. Whatever is there think of a loving mother who embraces her sometimes a bit akward kid and just loves it - that is all that is needed. The emotion wants to be seen and held in compassion.
That is all that is needed, no fixing, no repairing.
This is one of the easiest ways of dealing with emotions. They are and that is ok, one lives better without resistance to them.

The heavy breathing helps by the way.

As long as it isn't laboured, wants to achieve or push away something or is in any way forcefull.
You might like to try to just allow breathing, just the way it comes, no extra fluff.

Love
Jadzia

[Tan]

Take something into your hand, an apple, or what is at hand. What is known? An apple?
Have a look what do you find in your direct experience (colour/form, smell, taste, physical feeling, noise)?
Does the label describe what it labels, or is it just an abstract?

What is Arthur in DE?

It's just an abstract. A collection of cause and effects and only labeled as the word it bears due to a need for communication.

Arthur in Direct Experience is a name latched onto an entity that has thoughts creating a story? There is an awareness that we are boats with no passengers. But how does one get from point A to point B? I'm confused. As you said, there's a forcing and an act of seeking here, of thinking instead of feeling. And when there's stillness, there's a budding sensation of wanting to cry.

So it seems as if the fear is trying to protect something, right? That is ok.
Have you looked behind it?
This isn't an intellectual excercise, it is really looking, observing, asking.

Fear stems from the fact that maybe I don't know what I'm getting into. I didn't have grand expectations of enlightenment or anything of the sort. I just thought it was interesting, another tool for mindfulness. But the more this process gets deeper, there's a sensation of peeling back layers.

Can a component feel sad or is there simply sadness which wants to be acknowledged?

The latter. Sadness comes and is held, then goes.

===
===

I'm sitting on it. I want to cry but I can't. There's turbulence. I need help. There's a sensation of drifting off, helpless. It's hard. It's difficult. I don't know what's happening. I'm yawning. Sadness here. Emptiness as well. Hollow. No peace. I want to say I love you and I'm sorry at the same time. I don't know why. There are alot of emotions. Tangled in my chest.

[Jadzia]

Does the label describe what it labels, or is it just an abstract?
It's just an abstract. A collection of cause and effects and only labeled as the word it bears due to a need for communication.

labels don't describe what they label, yes, we need them for communication.

Arthur in Direct Experience is a name latched onto an entity that has thoughts creating a story? There is an awareness that we are boats with no passengers. But how does one get from point A to point B? I'm confused. As you said, there's a forcing and an act of seeking here, of thinking instead of feeling. And when there's stillness, there's a budding sensation of wanting to cry.

Lets see of what Arthur is a collection of, which gets one label, ok?
Body = colour form, taste, smell, sound, physical feeling, thoughts
So this is found in DE.
The thinker
The doer
The experiencer
The chooser
The decider
just to name a few.
They are all found as what, where?
In DE, nope. In thoughts, oh yes. Right?
Is there an entity called Arthur?

Fear stems from the fact that maybe I don't know what I'm getting into. I didn't have grand expectations of enlightenment or anything of the sort. I just thought it was interesting, another tool for mindfulness. But the more this process gets deeper, there's a sensation of peeling back layers.

Many of us have learned to hide emotions or call some emotions unwanted and tried to let them disappear. At some points in our lifes it might have even been a good thing to do stash them away to keep stablility. But one day we need to have a look and learn to have compassion with what we find. What we don't face head on is always hanging around in our backs.
Allowing emotions and allowing the peeling back of layers at first might make us feel very vulnerable.

I'm sitting on it. I want to cry but I can't. There's turbulence. I need help. There's a sensation of drifting off, helpless. It's hard. It's difficult. I don't know what's happening. I'm yawning. Sadness here. Emptiness as well. Hollow. No peace. I want to say I love you and I'm sorry at the same time. I don't know why. There are alot of emotions. Tangled in my chest./quote]
Yes, it can be a bit messy in the beginning. All is well.
I sent you a pm, you will find it next to your name, top right corner.

Love,
Jadzia

[Tan]

Hey so I took a look at the emotion and sensation. It was a clump of fear, excitement, apprehension, anxiety, and "Oh god, what did I get myself into." It surged in my belly, crawled up to my chest. Sat on it for quite a while, 10 or 15 minutes. Took a walk again, and it went away. Realized that I'll still be here, that there will be a change and no change like you said back then. A change in terms of not being too drowned up in thoughts and emotions, and no change in the fact that there will still be thoughts and stories and emotions like love, pain, regret. I guess it will be easier to untangle them and not get too attached on them, not assuming that this "love feeling" is me or this "anger" is me or this thought is who I am. Since all and all, there is no me. There are just thoughts and emotions that float about, coming from nowhere, held with compassion, then is let go of.

To be frank, I'm having some doubts as to whether I actually know that there is no "me". I don't know, it's pretty set in stone and I surrender to it. But I thought it would be more disorientating than that. Like the analogy I used earlier, maybe I'm a child that is aware of the concept of death but hasn't fully realized it since it didn't happen close to them. I guess it was just pretty anti-climactic? Like I just said "yeah, cool"

I traced it further and I realized that I probably knew it all along? Just never had someone to help me unpack it like you are doing now. I used to do LSD - not too much, around 9 times - from 18 till I was 20. There was always the question of "Who am I? Who is it all behind the lens?" And the most significant one was the last session around Sept. of 2019. It really crippled my - at the time - perceived sense of self. Like I realized if you take everything away, the body, the thoughts, the likes, the components making up who "Arthur" is, then you're left with nothing at all - a blank spot. It really messed with me at the time since I never realized this non-self concept was an actual idea. So I just thought there was something wrong with me.

I guess it was always under my nose all along.

[Jadzia]

A change in terms of not being too drowned up in thoughts and emotions, and no change in the fact that there will still be thoughts and stories and emotions like love, pain, regret. I guess it will be easier to untangle them and not get too attached on them, not assuming that this "love feeling" is me or this "anger" is me or this thought is who I am.

Yes, personality stays and everything connected to it and it will get easier and easier to untangle emotions and story.

To be frank, I'm having some doubts as to whether I actually know that there is no "me". I don't know, it's pretty set in stone and I surrender to it. But I thought it would be more disorientating than that. Like the analogy I used earlier, maybe I'm a child that is aware of the concept of death but hasn't fully realized it since it didn't happen close to them. I guess it was just pretty anti-climactic? Like I just said "yeah, cool"

We will check a few points and see that clarity can get through.
Yeah, I guess we would all like a bit of firework, or at least a sign "You have done it, yippie"
Why can it feel anti climactic?
Well, there never was a self as entity, it is just something built up in a story. Actually the normal is no entity Arthur, you just noticed. ;-)

Like I realized if you take everything away, the body, the thoughts, the likes, the components making up who "Arthur" is, then you're left with nothing at all - a blank spot. It really messed with me at the time since I never realized this non-self concept was an actual idea.

Are you left with nothing, a blank spot?
Feel into it.

Love,
Jadzia

[Tan]

Are you left with nothing, a blank spot?
Feel into it.

There's doubt here. Around the belly again. I realized I was being swallowed up in thoughts, trying to answer this intellectually, combing through memories of what happened, and comparing and contrasting. Detached from it, and started to observe the emotion. I don't really know how to do it lovingly as you said? It seems more neutral whenever I do it. Like I just look at it and that's it. I close my eyes, until it's just the emotion and sensation that exists.
----
Took a walk again. Don't actually know if this is the right way to do it but it seems like being active, or at least being on the move, helps me focus better? Or maybe I'm just shooing it away by doing it, I don't know. Sat underneath a tree and there was emptiness there. No intense peace or clarity like before, but I was okay with it.

I'm quitting smoking again too. Stemmed from the fact that my friend who's been on here asked me why I still smoke if I'm so mindful of how bad it is, I replied "I just don't care". And there was doubt there, an apprehension from incoming change. But I just threw away my pack of cigarettes, which still had half left, and I'm actually pretty okay with it. Don't know why I did it, it just happened. Impulse.

So yes, there is nothing there. And maybe what the answer is isn't important. The process, the path to get there is. There's love as these last few words are being typed. And pride? Or gratitude? Don't know, but there is love here. Around my chest.

[Jadzia]

You are doing well, the emotional work needs easing into it, getting used to it. So stopping and get moving is a good idea. With the time it will be much easier to simply sit and stay with it. Do it in the way which feels right and good for you.

Lets have a look again what makes the illusion of Arthur being an entity:
The idea of a body, being part of Arthur
The idea of Arthur being the thinker
The idea of Arthur being the chooser and decider
The idea of Arthur being the experiencer of life
The idea of Arthur being lifes manager
These are some of the biggies.
Lets check them one by one just to make sure what is.

If you sit down quietly for a moment and close your eyes. Allow thoughts to do their thoughts thingy, allow physical sensations to appear, stay and disappear, listen to noises and just observe all this. All this is there, experienced.
Take a deep breath and have a look.
With closed eyes it there a body?
Is there an inside or outside of the body?
Is in any of that what is directly experienced other than in thoughts the information "This is a body and it belongs to Arthur" ?

Love,
Jadzia

[Tan]

If you sit down quietly for a moment and close your eyes. Allow thoughts to do their thoughts thingy, allow physical sensations to appear, stay and disappear, listen to noises and just observe all this. All this is there, experienced.
Take a deep breath and have a look.
With closed eyes it there a body?
Is there an inside or outside of the body?
Is in any of that what is directly experienced other than in thoughts the information "This is a body and it belongs to Arthur" ?

It seems as though there is no separation. Just senses. The chair, the keys on the laptop, headphones cradling the head. I can hear the heart beating as my ears are covered by the headphones.

The boundaries seem blurred now. Information leans more towards to "This is a body and it belongs to the character Arthur." instead of a separate entity.
----

Gave it another shot. Yes there is a body but is only evident due to interactions with external factors. With eyes closed, gravity pulling down on the limbs suggest that there is a hand, the chair indicates there are legs, my fingers rubbing my chin says there are fingers and a face. It's a bit strange.

[Jadzia]

It seems as though there is no separation. Just senses.

There is just sense input which gets labeled chair, headphone, head, heart beating and so on.

The boundaries seem blurred now. Information leans more towards to "This is a body and it belongs to the character Arthur." instead of a separate entity.

What is information? Isn't that what thoughts add to experience? The explanations thoughts offer?
Look again:
When you sit and just go with the senses, allow thoughts to label everything but don't really care from or heed them - is there anything in the sensations that says "Arthurs body"?
Do the sensations know they are forming a body or is "Arthurs body" an abstract thoughts offer for a bunch of sensations?

Yes there is a body but is only evident due to interactions with external factors. With eyes closed, gravity pulling down on the limbs suggest that there is a hand, the chair indicates there are legs, my fingers rubbing my chin says there are fingers and a face. It's a bit strange.

Now have a close look:
Does the chair indicate that there are legs?
Though I do get what you mean: Honestly can a chair do something?
Where does the information come from? Thoughts adding to simple experience?
Would you know without this information that a body exists?

Stay with this for a day and where ever you are, have a look again adn again. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

[Tan]

This is actually really cool haha.

When you sit and just go with the senses, allow thoughts to label everything but don't really care from or heed them - is there anything in the sensations that says "Arthurs body"?
Do the sensations know they are forming a body or is "Arthurs body" an abstract thoughts offer for a bunch of sensations?

The sensations don't know they are forming a body. "Arthur's body" is an abstract that thoughts offer for a bunch of sensations. I actually laughed haha. It's weird.

Now have a close look:
Does the chair indicate that there are legs?
Though I do get what you mean: Honestly can a chair do something?
Where does the information come from? Thoughts adding to simple experience?
Would you know without this information that a body exists?

Without the information? Without the knowledge of human anatomy at all? I don't know? But man is this question making me laugh pretty hard. I've never had this perspective before. So Arthur's body is an abstract. But without information, but merely going by senses, no it's not Arthur's body. Just sense inputs. Such a strange way of looking at it. In a good way of course.

[Tan]

I'm getting really giggly actually haha. There's a childish sensation of awe and love in my chest.
----
I did the whole emotional work thing. I was just laughing haha. Just smiling and all. Don't know why. It's pretty cool though. There's still some residual left where my belly is at. It's good though. Everytime I think I'm done chuckling, there are some left. I'm just observing it, not stopping it or prodding it. Just looking and embracing. It's fun.

I don't know why but the sensation of an empty car or an empty boat - instead of one with a steerer or passenger - makes me laugh.

---
Crawling up to my chest now. It's pretty tight.
---
Just observed it like you said. Didn't need to walk. It's gone now. I did breath somewhat. Don't know if I was supposed to. But it wasn't deep or forceful, just a controlled slow breathing.

[Jadzia]

The sensations don't know they are forming a body. "Arthur's body" is an abstract that thoughts offer for a bunch of sensations. I actually laughed haha. It's weird.

yes, it is fun and weird at the same time.

Is there a body at all?
Can it be known in DE if there really is a body?
I know, like you wrote, we learned what a body is, biology, physiology and so on, but with eyes closed and just heeding the sensations, can you be 100% sure?

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

Just wanna add another question:
Is there just a story about something called body or is there really a body.

[Tan]

Can it be known in DE if there really is a body?
I know, like you wrote, we learned what a body is, biology, physiology and so on, but with eyes closed and just heeding the sensations, can you be 100% sure?

If through sight, then yes there is a body. If eyes are closed and not heeding information taught growing up, then no. We are only 100% sure by looking.

Is there just a story about something called body or is there really a body.

Both? But maybe it's an abstraction the way you noted the word "University". That it's not really a body but a collection of cells and organs, and thoughts that weave all these together.

So there's just a story about something called 'body'. Kind of freaky haha.

[Jadzia]

It is good and important to see how thoughts weave the story since Arthur, the one entity one sure can't find, is a character in the story.
Lets play a bit with body to see how it works:

hat it's not really a body but a collection of cells and organs...

What do you find in DE? Cells and organs? Rather not, right?
What you find are thoughts - memory - something learned, yes?
You might hear organs (sound), or feel them (physical sensation).

Just for a moment let us fall deeply in the DE pot ;-)
Label 'body' is known as DE of thought
Image/colour 'body is known as DE of colour
Sensation labelled 'body' is known as DE of sensation
Smell labelled 'body' is known as DE of smell
Taste labelled 'body' is known as DE of taste
Sound labelled 'body' is known as DE of sound.
This is what you got....

...., and thoughts that weave all these together.

And here we go .... yes.

You already found out that the Arthur boat is empty - no captain, no one doing the rowing.
Still for this day look if you can find a thinker anywhere, simply observe.
Watch out for the story, sure there will be thoughts "I am thinking about this right now" but is there a thinker?

Love,
Jadzia