Liberation this time round (with Vivien)

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Yes it is true on the feeling level. There absolutely is no thinker. There is no entity thinking or creating the thoughts.
I 100% feel this to be true :) Seeing this makes things seem lighter somehow.

Great! :)

Any time if you catch yourself having even just a slightest sense of a thinker or that “I am thinking”, please pause for a moment and check.

Now we start investigating the notion of control.

Make an intention about something (like intending to stand up, walk, do the dishes, put something aside, etc.), but before you do that, check out if you can know in advance what the intention will be, BEFORE the thought of it arise.

Do this as often as possible during the day.
Let me know what happens.

Warmly,
Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Do you mean see if I know in advance what I am going to ‘do’? I don’t quite understand the question

Thanks 🙏
Tanya

[Vivien]

Not just what you are going to do, but what you are going to INTEND to do. So we are investigating intention here.
If you can know in advance what is going to be your intention, before the thoughts about intention appears.
Does this help?

[tanyawilliams86]

Not just what you are going to do, but what you are going to INTEND to do. So we are investigating intention here.
If you can know in advance what is going to be your intention, before the thoughts about intention appears.
Does this help?

I just looked up what intention and intend means because I wasn't entirely sure what they meant. So you're asking if I can know in advance what plan or purpose of what is going to happen before thoughts about plans/intentions appears? Am I understanding the question now?

[Vivien]

Yes. Let me give you an example, it might help.

Let’s say I’m sitting in front of my laptop typing to you, when I look up and see the dishes piling up. Then suddenly a thought appears with the intention “I’m going to do the dishes when I finished writing to you”. So intention is a decision that I decided to do in the future, not right now, but later.

So the question is, can I know in advance that I will intend to do the dishes BEFORE the thought of “I am going to do the dishes when I finished” arises?

The immediate answer is ‘of course not’, but that would come from logic only. What I am asking you to do is to check in experience if it can be known in advance or not.

[tanyawilliams86]

Yes. Let me give you an example, it might help.

Let’s say I’m sitting in front of my laptop typing to you, when I look up and see the dishes piling up. Then suddenly a thought appears with the intention “I’m going to do the dishes when I finished writing to you”. So intention is a decision that I decided to do in the future, not right now, but later.

So the question is, can I know in advance that I will intend to do the dishes BEFORE the thought of “I am going to do the dishes when I finished” arises?

The immediate answer is ‘of course not’, but that would come from logic only. What I am asking you to do is to check in experience if it can be known in advance or not.

Thank you. I think I get it now :) I will check in experience if it can be known in advance or not and get get back to you tomorrow. Thank you for being so helpful :)

[Vivien]

Welcome :)

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

Make an intention about something (like intending to stand up, walk, do the dishes, put something aside, etc.), but before you do that, check out if you can know in advance what the intention will be, BEFORE the thought of it arise.

I have looked at this a lot over the last day or so. It is absolutely impossible to know in advance what the intention will be before the thought of it arises. Anything could come up ...there is no predicting it.

Warmly,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

All right. Now let’s investigate some other commonly assumed aspects of thoughts.

Can you find any thought that is aware?
Can a thought be aware of another thought?
Can a thought know about other thoughts?
Can a thought influence the content of another thought?
Does a thought have volition?
Does a thought have any power to do certain things?
What can a thought do?
Can a thought know about sensations?

Let’s say there is a sensation called ‘itch’.
Does the label ‘itch’ know about the sensation?
Does the label know that the sensation is itchy?
Do thoughts have any knowledge about sensations?

Thoughts are almost constantly commenting, labelling, categorizing, judging whatever is going on.
But do thoughts actually know what is happening?
Is the commenting thought actually aware of the thing or event that it’s commenting about?

Please look at these one-by-one.

Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

Can you find any thought that is aware?

No. I am aware of thought.

Can a thought be aware of another thought?

No, I am aware of a thought and then another thought appearing.

Can a thought know about other thoughts?

No

Can a thought influence the content of another thought?

No, thoughts just appear spontaneously. There might be another thought on the same topic appear after the first thought but this thought appears spontaneously also. Not influenced by the previous thought. That’s just not possible.

Does a thought have volition?

No. A thought isn’t making anything happen.

Does a thought have any power to do certain things?

No

What can a thought do?

A thought can’t do anything.

Can a thought know about sensations?

No, thought does not know about sensations. Thought is not knowing or aware of anything.

Let’s say there is a sensation called ‘itch’.

Does the label ‘itch’ know about the sensation?
No

Does the label know that the sensation is itchy?

No, as the label doesn’t know anything.

Do thoughts have any knowledge about sensations?

No. And thoughts cannot accurately describe sensations either.

Thoughts are almost constantly commenting, labelling, categorizing, judging whatever is going on.
But do thoughts actually know what is happening?

No, there is awareness or knowing of what is happening but that has nothing to do with thoughts. There is just the actual raw experiencing (seeing,hearing,smelling,touching,tasting) and thought comments after the fact. Thought is not knowing.

Is the commenting thought actually aware of the thing or event that it’s commenting about?

No, I am aware of the commenting thought commenting about the thing or event. I am that which is aware of the thing or even not the thought.

I hope you are having a lovely weekend :)
Sending love,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

You did a nice investigation :)

So thoughts cannot do anything, they are not aware, rather they are ‘awared’, and they appear spontaneously on their own.

Now we start to dive into looking at control and decision.

Is there anything that does not happen automatically?

Is there anything that needs your doing? Or everything is just happening?

What do you do in order to be?

What do you do in order to see?
What do you do in order to hear?
What do you do in order to feel?
What do you do in order to taste and smell?

What do you do for thoughts to be?

What do you do in order for the body to be?

Please investigate each questions thoroughly many times throughout the day.
Let me know what you find.

Have a nice weekend,
Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

You did a nice investigation :)

Thanks :) I am finding that looking at actual experience and not at the content of thoughts is key and is a lot easier this time round.

So thoughts cannot do anything, they are not aware, rather they are ‘awared’, and they appear spontaneously on their own.

Yes absolutely! it's good to see this :)

Is there anything that does not happen automatically?

No, it is quite amazing to see everything is happening automatically. This answer to the question is just automatically typing itself.This inquiry is just happening also.There is no one in charge. Life is just doing itself. No doer or controller but actions happen.

Is there anything that needs your doing? Or everything is just happening?

There just isn’t any doing. It’s all just happening. Walking happens,talking happens,smiling happens,eating happens all without anyone doing anything. There is no one at the wheel but all apparent actions happen. Quite mind blowing really.

What do you do in order to be?

Nothing. Being just is...it is the natural state (if I can say it like that)

What do you do in order to see?

Nothing. Nothing is doing the seeing. There is just seeing

What do you do in order to hear?

I am not doing hearing

What do you do in order to feel?

Nothing, sensations just appear.

What do you do in order to taste and smell?

There is no doing taste and smell. Tasting and smelling just happen.

What do you do for thoughts to be?

Thoughts are just spontaneously appearing. No one is doing thoughts

What do you do in order for the body to be?

Nothing. The body just is

Much gratitude for the guidance,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

In the following days I’m going to give you different exercises and pointers to repeatedly look at control, just to make sure that no stone left unturned :)

Please sit for some time and just notice how everything is just happening effortlessly.
Look around.
What is being done for colors and shapes to be? Is there anything be done for colors and shapes to be, or they are just there effortlessly?

Listen to the sounds.
What is being done exactly for the sounds to be?
And when the attention is on a sound, what is being done to know the sound? Is there any doing? Or it’s just known effortlessly?

Now shift the focus on FEELING the body.
What is being done exactly for the body to be?
Is there any effort in being?
Or the body just IS, effortlessly?

Focus on the sensations of the hands.
What is being done for the sensations to be?
Aren’t the sensations happens effortlessly?

Look at the hands.
What is being done exactly for the image of the hand to be, to exist?
Is there a you making the image of the hands happen?
Is there any effort in seeing?

Now notice thoughts.
What is being done for thoughts to be?
Is there any effort for thoughts to appear? Or they just appear effortlessly?

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Love, Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

In the following days I’m going to give you different exercises and pointers to repeatedly look at control, just to make sure that no stone left unturned :)

I love how thorough you are being with this. Thank you :)

What is being done for colors and shapes to be? Is there anything be done for colors and shapes to be, or they are just there effortlessly?

Nothing is being done for colours and shapes to be...colours and shapes are just there.
No, there isn’t anything to be done for colours and shapes to be. They are most definitely just there effortlessly.

Listen to the sounds.
What is being done exactly for the sounds to be?
And when the attention is on a sound, what is being done to know the sound? Is there any doing? Or it’s just known effortlessly?

Nothing is being done for sounds to be. Sounds just appear.
When attention is on a sound there is just knowing the sound. Knowing the sound isn’t a doing - there is no doing involved. Yes, it’s just known effortlessly :)

Now shift the focus on FEELING the body.
What is being done exactly for the body to be?
Is there any effort in being?
Or the body just IS, effortlessly?

Nothing is being done for the body to be. There is colours and sensations labelled body but those are experienced effortlessly.
No effort in being. You don’t have to try to be you just are. Lol who would be trying...that is just an idea also.
Yes the body just IS effortlessly. That was nearly written in response to the question about what is being done for the body to be :)

Focus on the sensations of the hands.
What is being done for the sensations to be?
Aren’t the sensations happens effortlessly?

Nothing is being done for sensations to be. Sensations are happening effortlessly. Amazing :)

Look at the hands.
What is being done exactly for the image of the hand to be, to exist?
Is there a you making the image of the hands happen?
Is there any effort in seeing?

Nothing. The image is just here. No doer of the image.
That was a great question :) No there is no you making the image of the hands happen. There is awareness of the image but no one making anything happen.
No, seeing is very natural - no effort

Now notice thoughts.
What is being done for thoughts to be?
Is there any effort for thoughts to appear? Or they just appear effortlessly?

Nothing is being done for thoughts to be. They really do just appear. No one is behind the scenes creating thoughts.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

I am in awe. Everything is just happening all by itself with no one doing it. Life is totally effortless. It flows naturally all by itself. Wow :)

Love,Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

I am in awe. Everything is just happening all by itself with no one doing it. Life is totally effortless. It flows naturally all by itself. Wow :)

You did an excellent investigation :) yes, everything is just happening effortlessly. Not just no doer is needed, but not even effort.

Please experiment with these.

Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

Can you choose to fall asleep?

Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction, etc) of the physical sensation that will arise next?

Can you choose the next emotion, mood, attitude that will arise?

Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

Vivien