Enquiry

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for clarification.

AE for family zoom conversation:

Confusion at many different heads/identities in front of me and how to process this: thoughts
Computer screen with moving image, wall behind: sight
People talking in earphones: sound, touch
Weird little contractions/convulsions in body, discomfort: physical feeling
Discomfort/confusion as to what to say when asked how I am: thought, physical sensation

Just now I was listening to music on my computer in between reading chunks of Gatecrashers:

Confusion at what is going on/”Is this liberation happening?”, “What is happening?”, “What should I be doing?”:thoughts
Screen with moving images, bed + crossed legs below: sight
Music in ears: sound
Same weird releases/contractions all over body: physical sensation

Thanks again for requesting relaxation: I like hearing that!

Much love, Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Okay, Jeremy, you've got it. Thank you. Let's see, what shall we play with next?

This one also helps to learn to distinguish between Actual Experience and content of thought (which is made up).

Fruit Exercise

Have a piece of fruit handy, or something that you like to eat.

For the first couple of minutes imagine you are eating the fruit.....feel the sensations ofchewing, the taste, the texture, the fragrance, hear the crunching sound that the chewing makes. Really enjoy the imaginary piece of fruit as much as you can.

Then for the next couple of minutes actually bite the fruit and see the difference. Experience the fruit with curiosity and dive into the sensations of chewing, swallowing, the sounds and the taste. Really enjoy the experience of actually eating the piece of fruit.

Then for another minute or so describe the taste and smell in as much detail as possible.

Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences, separately:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description

Relaxation is essential. It really is. All stress comes from trying to be in some imagined future or dead past.

Much love,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for the exercise. I have chosen an apple! Here goes:

1.Imaginary
Smooth, hard texture of waxy surface. Deep red colour, with white freckles, solidity of the apple, hardness. Sound as I bite into it, distinctive appley crunch. Coolness of the flesh of fruit, whitey colour of inside, cool, sweet water of fruit in my mouth. Crunch of fruit accompanied by sweetness.

2. Actual
Surface: Orangey yellow blotches over strawberry red, with pale yellow specks. Firm touch, with a slight give. First bite: pressure on teeth of crunch, sound of crunch, white/yellow inside. Perfume of apple released. I smell the fragrance of the inside of the apple. The bite I took looks like a yellowy white crater on a dark red planet. I can hear someone welding outside, as well as a conversation had by passers-by.

3. Comparison
All of the first exercise was happening on a screen, in the realm of “thought.” There were some very vivid sensations coming up, which made me look forward to the apple! But nonetheless all on the screen. Whereas the actual experience was ‘3D.’ There were so many more elements to it, all playing off at the same time, like a symphony. I could only focus on one at a time. It was a ‘full,’ juicy experience, rather than a 2D picture.

Funnily enough, last night when I was doing AE noticing, I noticed the difference between a song playing in my head, which I labelled “thought,” and an actual song, which was real sound. There is definitely a difference.

This morning woke up feeling heavy/glum about the whole thing. When I read your email my eyes went straight for:

Relaxation is essential. It really is. All stress comes from trying to be in some imagined future or dead past

I sat down with a cup of tea and just sat there, doing nothing, in the quiet. The whole morning was like this, just listening to nice music, not reading ‘Gatecrashers,’ and very gently doing some AE noticing. Am realising there is/has been a lot of fear in this body.

Much love, Jeremy

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

I just went for a walk. I am continuing to do AE noticing, very gently. It's incredibly helpful to see whether things are in the actual world of experience or that of thought. At one point I realised that 'Jeremy' only exists within the realm of thought. It is a story that "I" and various others have entertained. I moved my head around and wondered who was doing this. It was clear that it was just happening. When I posited the notion that it was 'Jeremy' moving the head, it seemed ridiculous.

Taking it v easy today. Don't feel like reading. Going to go and have a nap now.

Much love
Jeremy

[jb9]

Just wanna quickly add that further to my last point, there has been an increasing slipping into the actual world, taking care only of the immediate needs of the body, ie "do we need food?", "do we need rest?", etc, and out of projected fears about what's going to happen in the world/my life

Much love
Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Hey Jeremy,

I read your responses and I will reply, but I would like for you to finish the exercise first, please? You left out describing what it was like to do the description piece.

Here are the instructions again:

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences, separately:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description

Thanks!

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Sorry about that! Had misunderstood.

When I read all three they all seem to me to be in the same realm, ie. that of 'thought." Whereas the second one was a very real experience when having it, when I read the description I have made it has turned into another movie on a screen. So each one of these is either a memory of a "reality" or a memory of a memory! And as I type this now, the only "reality" is the feel of the keys at my fingertips, the tension in my crossed legs, the sight of the computer screen, and the quiet of the room...

Best,
Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Good, Jeremy. yes. That's exactly the point.

While eating a "real" 🍎 in the moment. that is Direct Experience. When you write about it here, of course, it is not DE.

SEEING no self is like the in-the-moment eating of the apple, not like any description, imagination, or memory.

So, let's go a little further:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.

http://www.maryshomestead.com/sitebuild ... /fruit.gif

When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation & the fact that thought arose. but not its content (which is made up).

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is.always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known.

Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known.

Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)

Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known.

Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known.

However, is an apple actually known?

Let me know how this one goes.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

AND...

At one point I realised that 'Jeremy' only exists within the realm of thought. It is a story that "I" and various others have entertained. I moved my head around and wondered who was doing this. It was clear that it was just happening. When I posited the notion that it was 'Jeremy' moving the head, it seemed ridiculous.

Yes! This is seeing no self. This is noticing there is no one doing or controlling anything.

You've got it.

Answer about the apple & then we'll refine some other things, ask some final questions & be done! You were just about seeing when you got here.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

AND...

At one point I realised that 'Jeremy' only exists within the realm of thought. It is a story that "I" and various others have entertained. I moved my head around and wondered who was doing this. It was clear that it was just happening. When I posited the notion that it was 'Jeremy' moving the head, it seemed ridiculous.

Yes! This is seeing no self. This is noticing there is no one doing or controlling anything.

You've got it.

Answer about the apple & then we'll refine some other things, ask some final questions & be done! You were just about seeing when you got here.

Loving,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

This exercise is reinforcing the sense that the thought world exists independently of the actual world, because I see that when I look at the apple, the thought “apple” could be there or not there, it doesn’t really matter. It is a story that is called upon by a very old reflex as soon as the looking takes place.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

As I use this insight on my own thought world, I see that it exists in and of itself, but doesn’t really have a frame of reference in the real world. It’s a self-contained system, which doesn’t exist outside its own parameters/extend into the real world. By extension, ‘Jeremy’ is a story that is playing along merrily, without any tangible reference in reality. It is as real as Don Quixote. When ‘Jeremy’ is thought, the real world is simultaneously playing out quite happily, independently of it.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is no ‘apple’ here, only a red round thing just sitting there.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No, it’s a thought form, which for some reason springs up as soon as I look at the red round thing.

However, is an apple actually known?

‘Apple’ is a concept that, for some reason, has arisen over time. It can always be called on within the thought realm, and sometimes appears of its own accord; however there is nothing in reality that is actually ‘apple.’

I can see that this may have ever-deeper implications down the road, eg. when I feel fear and am able to see it for what it is, in comparison to what is presenting in real life.

Much love, Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Go to the head of the class, Jeremy!

Yes, fear isn't real. You're a quick one.

Check this little piece though. Who taught you "round?" Or "sitting?" Or "there?" :)

only a red round thing just sitting there.

You probably don't need these next 3 exercises, but I want you to look at them to get some of the details of what you have now SEEN. Post short replies and then we'll move on.

Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


And these:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like,and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?




Loving,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy!

Hey that’s a good point re.

Who taught you "round?" Or "sitting?" Or "there?"

!
More labels in the thought realm…

Observing thoughts

Where are they coming from and going to?

Thoughts come from nowhere, arise into consciousness and then return to nowhere

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No: I had no say in the matter. The only thing that can be done is to witness them come and go (and it’s not ‘me’ doing this anyway).

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Not at all.

Can you predict your next thought?

No.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No, what comes up comes up.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Ditto

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, once they’re here they’re here.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

It’s all completely random, or we could say free.


Palm Flipping Exercise

How is the movement controlled?

I don’t know; it just happens of its own accord.

Does a thought control it?

No, although sometimes a thought can arise simultaneously.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

I really don’t know – it just seems to happen spontaneously.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Again I don’t know, the right one just came forward when I read the instruction.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

Raising Hand Exercise

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

I don’t know, one raises itself of its own accord

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

No

What is it that is controlling the hand?

I have no idea.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No

How is the decision made?

I don’t know, it just happens.


I finished Gateless Gatecrashers today. More fell away. It’s interesting, I got angry with the all the Theravada guys who weren’t getting it, and realised I was angry at myself because I too had a lot of unyielding intellectualisation which had to be got rid of. But great relief when I read them through.

I had been anticipating moments of spontaneous laughter when this was seen, but that hasn’t happened. After finishing the book I felt a great deal of sadness and restlessness, seemingly in the body. But I knew it wasn’t mine too so just sat with it. I went for a quiet walk. I think the body has been so used to being on a mission for so many years (particularly the last 3, when the search reached fever-pitch), and it is now seeing that there is nowhere else to go, no other quest to go on. It’s kind of saying: “So, is that it? Really, so simple?”, and can’t quite believe it.

I feel a bit strange, a bit like someone who has opened his eyes for the first time and doesn’t quite know what to make of it. Feel a bit vulnerable so continuing to lay low and relax. But as I write the cloud is lifting and beginning to feel very light. I think the body is just going through some kind of process, so I’m going to let it do its thing.

Much love, Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeremy,

Ready for final questions?

I want to make sure that you notice there are many different parts to the 5th question.

People miss pieces of it and we have to go over it and over it again. Be sure to answer every single piece. Each word. That doesn't mean long answers (I note you are a wordy fellow, like me). Be thorough, but concise.

Ready? I am going to assume you are. It's probably around 9:30 pm there.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[jb9]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate “me” entity that has a concrete existence. What does appear, quite often, is an idea, rather like a fictional character, of an “I,” with its own history, etc., but this has no more bearing on reality than the word “mug.” This idea appears within everything, as part of everything. For many years there was a belief that this idea was real, but this was a false belief. There has never existed a separate “me.”

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

There appeared an idea that there was a character called Jeremy, which had its own preferences and history, and existed separately from all other “persons.” This was a fantasy. The idea was very closely attached to this body, and had a strong energetic pull to it. I do not have a memory of this idea forming, and certainly not of life before this idea. But it became so firmly believed in that the world felt like a very dangerous place, that if threatened the “me” may die. Right now this idea is still there, but is no longer believed in and hence has drastically less charge to it, almost none.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels very strange, and I can barely believe I am typing all this. What is shocking is how quiet and ordinary this is. And great shock that in all these years of seeking it was missed. It was simply not what I was expecting. The person that put me onto LU asked me “what are your thoughts?”, and it was as if someone had asked me this for the first time. Engaging in this dialogue really forced me to see the message from “my” standpoint, rather than as a concept. There was an intense seeking energy when I arrived here; I was exhausted from the search. Now there is a slowly-growing, profound peace in the body.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Without a doubt it was the exercise where I had to see things either as part of senses or thought. In all honesty I thought this exercise was too simplistic at first, but it burned through the last of the illusions like a flame-thrower, and continues to do so. Whenever there was doubt/fear/frustration, I simply took it back to “What is this? Seeing? Touching? etc.” and naturally the “me” idea fell firmly into the “thought” category.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision: There is no decision carried out by Jeremy. It simply appears out of nowhere, spontaneously.
Intention: A thought appears that Jeremy would like to eat eggs, for example. But if eating eggs then follows, it is simply life doing egg eating, and that action has had nothing to do with the Jeremy character.
Free will: There is no free will. Life happens spontaneously, freely, as it pleases.
Choice: As with intention, there can be an idea of choosing to eat chocolate, but this is a thought like any other, and if eating chocolate then follows, it has no connection with the “choice” thought.
Control: Jeremy has no control over anything, and never has done. Life happens, and part of that happening is the thought of Jeremy, but “he” is doing none of it.

What makes things happen?: I do not know what makes things happen. All that can be done is to witness happening itself, and even this witnessing is part of the happening. The desire to answer your email, the taking out of the computer and responding to questions just started taking place, out of nowhere.
How does it work?: I have no idea how it works, whatsoever! But it is marvellous and quite a spectacle. Any thoughts about cause & effect, or physics or metaphysics, are precisely that: thoughts, which have no bearing on what is taking place in actuality.
What are you responsible for?: Jeremy is responsible for nothing, because nothing has happened as a result of his intention and action. Life has simply done what it has done.

6) Anything to add?

I am extremely grateful that life brought me to LU, and particularly to the book Gateless Gatecrashers, which stripped away illusions even as I read it. And so so grateful for your time, Stacy, as I think this character really needed that personal attention to push him over the edge!