Letting go

[Dion]

Hi Vivien :)
Didn’t need much sleep last night.
About 5 hours. I woke up, ‘Ping!’ at 3:47am. That’s interesting.
I still have the old retarded thoughts. I don’t know why I’m surprised. But there’s still nothing there to feed them.
It’s like, “I’m going to tidy the whole house”. And then I think, “what I?”. And then I look, and there’s nothing.
Actually, when I try to look inside, it’s like a force-field that stops me from going deep.
I can’t meditate. Can you? Does the ability take time to come back?
Or just, I can’t meditate now?
Well, I’m looking forward to hearing from you.
Take care. I hope you’re well. I might go for a walk.
Dion

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

There’s no separation. They’re 1 thing! That’s weird. There’s no defining line between anything, except in appearance. Even the awareness is somehow one with the seen. Weird.

Yes. There is no separation, and there has never been.

Can you find this thing called awareness in reality?
Is there both awareness AND objects?

The idea of awareness sounds like an idea you may have picked up through spiritual circles or through reading.
Right now it's a concept. Can you find it in reality?

Vivien

[Dion]

HI Vivien :)

Can you find this thing called awareness in reality?
Is there both awareness AND objects?

Right now it's a concept. Can you find it in reality?

I can’t find awareness. It’s an aspect of the quality of everything. It’s indivisible.
Strangely, awareness and objects seem to be the same thing. The same all.

Yeah I read and watched to a lot of stuff about consciousness and awareness. I thought they were magical, powerful roots of reality. I can’t say they’re not.
But from what I can see, awareness is just a facet of reality. Same as everything else, and indivisible from all else.
Thank you, Vivien :)

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

But from what I can see, awareness is just a facet of reality. Same as everything else, and indivisible from all else.

Yes, exactly.

Please go to the fridge and take out some food or drink. Watch like a hawk.
How is a decision is made?
WHAT made the decision?

During the day when there is a seeming choosing or decision making is happening, look for the exact moment when choosing happening.
Is there a chooser/me at any time?

Vivien

[Dion]

Hello :)
I was at a cafe when I saw you’d mailed me, so I tried what you suggested with the food I had there.

How is a decision is made?
WHAT made the decision?
Is there a chooser/me at any time?

I sat there with my tiny side-dish of cheesy macaroni, watching it like a Hawk (as instructed). Before I was even aware what was happening, it was half-way to my mouth!
I did the same when I was eating my raisin toast and drinking my coffee, too.
As far as I can see, there’s no decisions made. Those things are automatic. It was pretty hard to see the point of the action beginning, as well. Actually, I didn't once witness the beginning of the action.
I don’t seem to be able to direct my attention/awareness.
It just goes where it wants.
It seems all automatic.
Thank you, Vivien :)

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

I don’t seem to be able to direct my attention/awareness.
It just goes where it wants.
It seems all automatic.

It just SEEMS that attention cannot be directed?

It just SEEMS that all is automatic?

Can attention be direct or not?

Is everything automatic or not?

Please look at these questions many-many times during the day, to be sure about your answers.

Vivien

[Dion]

HI Vivien,
Thank you.
I’ll spend the rest of the day looking at that.
I’ll mail you later.
Dion

[Dion]

Hello again,
I guess I should be taking more time to examine, but it seems so obvious now.
Of course, attention can be directed. I can move it here and there. But sometimes a thought arises, and when I try to pursue the suggestion the thought made, attention won’t go there, or won’t settle there. Like there’s a sense of disinterest.
But if I have a feeling of wanting to direct it, it can be directed. If I feel, ‘look at the wall’, then attention goes there.

Dion

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

Of course, attention can be directed. I can move it here and there. But sometimes a thought arises, and when I try to pursue the suggestion the thought made, attention won’t go there, or won’t settle there. Like there’s a sense of disinterest.
But if I have a feeling of wanting to direct it, it can be directed. If I feel, ‘look at the wall’, then attention goes there.

You didn’t look at experience… you wrote down your THOUGHTS about it.

I guess I should be taking more time to examine, but it seems so obvious now.

Yes, please take more time to examine the questions. Be very-very thorough.

Don’t think about the answer, but LOOK.

It SEEMS ‘obvious’ because your listening to thoughts (beliefs) and not looking at experience.
It’s SEEM ‘obvious’ because this is what you believed in your whole life.

There is only one question for you. Be very-very thorough.

Find the ONE / THING that is directing attention.
Find the director.

WHAT is it that is directing attention?

Don’t rush through this exercise. Please spend a whole day looking and looking, as often as you can, preferably 100 times.

Vivien

[Dion]

Hi Vivien,
You said;

Find the ONE / THING that is directing attention.
Find the director.

WHAT is it that is directing attention?

I looked and looked. I can’t find anything directing attention. When I’m watching hard, just before attention moves, there is a feeling of intent. An intention to move. And then sometimes a little voice, saying, ‘Let’s move/let’s go”. Then a movement takes place. But no-one and nothing directs that intention or that movement.
When I’m just sort of spacing out, not really focused on anything, attention just drifts around.
Also, when I was checking who or what directs attention, I would choose two objects, or two sounds, and then observe the movement between the two. But it required some power to move my attention away from the first object. Like attention was sinking into that object. It was difficult to move attention away from that first object.
Dion

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

there is a feeling of intent. An intention to move. And then sometimes a little voice, saying, ‘Let’s move/let’s go”. Then a movement takes place. But no-one and nothing directs that intention or that movement.

And WHAT makes that intent?
And WHAT makes that ‘little voice to say: “let’s move”?

Also, when I was checking who or what directs attention, I would choose two objects, or two sounds, and then observe the movement between the two. But it required some power to move my attention away from the first object. Like attention was sinking into that object. It was difficult to move attention away from that first object.

Please repeat this again, and watch like a hawk :)

So choose two objects.

While you are choosing, pay very close attention on the CHOOSER.
WHAT is choosing which object to choose?

Try to move the attention from A to B object.
WHAT is making the effort or trying to move the attention?
Is there a MOVER or a TRY-ER?

Repeat this exercise several times, from the beginning, choosing two objects. Be very thorough.

Vivien

[Dion]

Hi Vivien,

And WHAT makes that intent?
And WHAT makes that ‘little voice to say: “let’s move”?

I can’t see anything. I can’t see anything prior to the feeling of intent. The feeling and the words come from nowhere and nothing.
They just gently materialize.

WHAT is choosing which object to choose?

Nothing is choosing. Attention just settles there. Attention chooses. It moves there of it’s own accord. If i have 5 objects in front of me, and rest my attention over all 5, attention seems to settles where it likes.

WHAT is making the effort or trying to move the attention?
Is there a MOVER or a TRY-ER?

The movement is born, randomly from nothing.
There is no mover or trier.

That’s all I can see.

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,
Please repeat it again.

Nothing is choosing. Attention just settles there. Attention chooses.

How do you know that attention is chooses? Can attention be OBSERVED to perform the act of choosing?

attention seems to settles where it likes.

You are talking as if attention would be some kind of entity with all sorts of abilities, like choosing and liking things.

Is it possible that you just replaced the word ‘awareness’ to ‘attention’ and just transferred the super powers form awareness to attention?

Is attention an entity with all abilities, like choosing and liking and settling?

Can attention be OBSERVED as it’s settling on an object?

Can attention be found at all?
Let alone be OBSERVED while it performs the act of settling?

Please don’t just quickly reply back as yes or no, but really investigate this.

Don’t rely on thoughts. Rather actually LOOK what can be SEEN/known without thoughts.

Vivien

[Dion]

Hello Vivien :)

Sorry about my sloppy use of words.
I’m beginning to realise that I need to be absolutely precise and scientific with my descriptions.
Also, let me apologise for being so flippant with my responses until now.
When you began guiding me, I had the impression I was being tested. I wasn’t smart enough to realise you are helping me to see clearly.
Henceforth, I’ll be precise and thorough.
Also, I didn’t realise that I was speculating. Its very easy for me to slip into speculation without realising it. There’s an almost seamless transition from seeing to speculating. I’ll try my hardest to be more vigilant from now on.
Thank you so much, again, for taking the time to guide me.
I’m very grateful :)

How do you know that attention is chooses? Can attention be OBSERVED to perform the act of choosing?

I slipped into speculation when I started struggling to see. There was an attraction to speculation. I had no feeling that attention was choosing. I could only see that attention settled somewhere or other. I didn’t know how to describe that accurately.
Let me try to describe it again by saying, attention moves to a point or location, and I have no idea how that happens.

You are talking as if attention would be some kind of entity with all sorts of abilities, like choosing and liking things.
Is it possible that you just replaced the word ‘awareness’ to ‘attention’ and just transferred the super powers form awareness to attention?

I only saw attention as being just a focal point.
My use of words was sloppy and imprecise. Sorry.

Is attention an entity with all abilities, like choosing and liking and settling?

No it isn’t.

Can attention be OBSERVED as it’s settling on an object?

There is awareness of attention, and the awareness that it rests or settles on a point. It is seen.

Can attention be found at all?

It can be seen. But when I look for it, I can’t find anything, and then the mind kicks in and starts to conceptualise. Then I come back to seeing, and cannot find a thing called attention. And then again the mind leaps in with hypothesis about it.
Final answer; I can see it, but it doesn’t exist as a separate entity. It is another quality of existence, or all that is perceived.

Let alone be OBSERVED while it performs the act of settling?

I’m looking, but I can’t find attention as an entity. But there is awareness of attention. And an awareness of it settling. As far as I can see, it is the direction of focus, but not divisible as in being a separate entity. I can only divide it when I conceptualise it.

[Vivien]

Hi Dion,

When you began guiding me, I had the impression I was being tested. I wasn’t smart enough to realise you are helping me to see clearly.

No, you haven’t been tested. All my questions and comments are pointers for you where to look.

Also, I didn’t realise that I was speculating. Its very easy for me to slip into speculation without realising it. There’s an almost seamless transition from seeing to speculating. I’ll try my hardest to be more vigilant from now on.

Yes, speculation can happen easily.

Speculation = thought

And the ability to distinguish BETWEEN EXPERIENCE and THOUGHTS ABOUT experience is the key for seeing through the self.

Since there are ONLY TWO options:
EXPERIENCE (with the 5 senses: seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting)
or
FANTASY (thoughts).
Can you see this?

There is awareness of attention, and the awareness that it rests or settles on a point. It is seen.

You might not see it, but your above comment is still coming from thoughts.

How could awareness/attention settle on a point, if there is no separate awareness/attention?

It can be seen. But when I look for it, I can’t find anything, and then the mind kicks in and starts to conceptualise. Then I come back to seeing, and cannot find a thing called attention. And then again the mind leaps in with hypothesis about it.
Final answer; I can see it, but it doesn’t exist as a separate entity. It is another quality of existence, or all that is perceived.

Your final answer is still a speculation.

Since if attention/awareness cannot be found, then it CANNOT be seen.
When you look for it, you don’t find anything.

So HOW can you SEE something if you don’t find it?
Can you see that this is just another thought story (speculation)?

In order to see that you can see awareness or attention, first you have to FIND them.

Can you find awareness?
Can you find attention?

Seriously. If you CAN SEE awareness or attention, it SHOULD BE EASY to describe:

- How it looks
- It’s size
- Shape
- Color
- Texture
- Location

So, please do everything you can to describe me how awareness looks like, how big it is, what shape it has, its color, texture, and more importantly its location. Don’t just make an intellectual conclusion that it’s not possible, but rather make an effort and ACTIVELY LOOK to have an experiential understanding of this, and not just an intellectual conclusion.
After you’ve dine with awareness, do the same with attention.

Spend lots of time on this. Be very thorough.

Please write me a list how awareness looks like.
After, write another list how attention looks like.

But there is awareness of attention.

After doing the above exercise, are you still sure that ‘there is awareness of attention’?

And an awareness of it settling.

And what about this?

Previously you wrote that attention is settling on the object.
Now you say that awareness is aware of attention.
And this awareness is settling.

HOW do you know that awareness is aware of attention, if neither awareness nor attention cannot be found/experienced?

Or maybe awareness can be experienced? How?

And attention can be experienced? How?

Be very thorough. Don’t rush through these questions. Since as long as you believe in awareness/attention the self is not fully seen through.

Vivien