Frihet

[adilerten]

Hi Adil!
Thank you for sending me this exercises.

Please read this article and make the exercise there for me and please tell me what comes.

i did the writing and found that when using I and me; i get caught in thoughts some that I label worrying and planning. I get a narrow focus with contraction in upper stomach and more thoughts show up. The sensations also quickly jump to the next one.
When writing excluding I and me: there is more room and expansiveness. The contents of thoughts are more reflective and connected to the experience. The body briefs and there are less thoughts . The sensations in body seem richer and more vivid.The body relaxes and seem softer.
It is amazing how this shift in writing down experiences can make such a difference!

From tomorrow after lunch I will be away on a course until Sunday afternoon. I might be able to text you from my phone early mornings or at night.

Maybe you can give me something to work on not needing a lot of writing on internet during this coming week?
Or shall I continue with the latest two exercises that I found eye opening? Noting simply sensations and writing with and without I an d me?

Love,
Pia

I see that you got what i wanted you to get from this exercise Pia.
Lovely.

If possible try to be in touch daily
but if you cannot
Times when you are outside watch the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there s a line between you and out there, between you and life itself.
If yes, try to find where is the boundary? Is there ?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?
Is there anything not happening itself ?

Investigate these dear..

But tell me which day you will be returning to our daily question and answers

Sending much love.

[pia]

Hi Adil!
I will be able to post you during this week but a bit limited because of time and WiFi depending on my phone.I do not know what happened to the colours in his reply but here comes some investigations;

Times when you are outside watch the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there s a line between you and out there, between you and life itself.

With closed eyes I cannot find a line between body and surroundings. There seem to be a sense of a weight or pressure of the body against where is situated and that the heat and itches comes from the body but no distinct boundaries.

If yes, try to find where is the boundary? Is there ?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

It seems that life is just going on inside and outside of body since the limits cannot be find and the body is not in the centre of it at all. Thoughts just turn up from nowhere and dreams the same, the heat feels like it comes from inside body and so does the the movements of breath or if a muscle is tightened. But in life itself there is now inside and outside.

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Cannot find anything excluded although trying.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

No but there is a sense of some kind of presence as part of life and space.

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Yes it seems so even though the mind creates thoughts that’s the mind is in the centre of everything.

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Things happen all the time in life like births and deaths independently if my senses register the happenings or not.

Is there anything not happening itself?

This last question I do not understand, do you mean by itself.

But tell me which day you will be returning to our daily question and answers

I will be back home the 4th of August in the evening. From the 5th and onwards I start working so I will post you in the evenings then.

Love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Hi Adil!
I will be able to post you during this week but a bit limited because of time and WiFi depending on my phone.I do not know what happened to the colours in his reply but here comes some investigations;

oh.. Ok..Good..Then we can continue..


You made a very good looking. Thank you.
let's look at some points more..

With closed eyes I cannot find a line between body and surroundings.

What is the actual experience of the dividing line with open eyes ?

It seems that life is just going on inside and outside of body since the limits cannot be find
heat feels like it comes from inside body

Isn't it just a thought claims that there is inside or outside ?
What is there other then a sensation ?

Is there anything not happening itself?
This last question I do not understand, do you mean by itself.

What meant here is, "What is not automatic ? Is there anything which is not automatic ?

[pia]

Hi Adil!
Amazed how much these kind of looking affects life and that looking outside meditation can have such an effect.

With closed eyes I cannot find a line between body and surroundings.

What is the actual experience of the dividing line with open eyes ?

The parts of the body that I can see like the hands and parts not covered by clothes is seen as colours contrasting, with other material and air so the sight tells me that there is a line between body and surroundings. But parts of the body covered with clothes or blanket makes it difficult to find a line where the body actually is because it can not be seen.

It seems that life is just going on inside and outside of body since the limits cannot be found.Heat seems to come from inside body.

Isn't it just a thought claims that there is inside or outside ? What is there other then a sensation ?

Logically since there is no obvious limits between body and surroundings I cannot tell what is really inside and outside. Although tightening a muscle is felt in direct experience in the body but maybe not for sure inside the body. So it is a thought- but mind is revolting to this answer.

Is there anything not happening itself?

This last question I do not understand, do you mean by itself?

What meant here is, "What is not automatic ? Is there anything which is not automatic ?

Choice? Reflections? But the answer is no since choices depends on conditions and so do reflections. I find in mind a lot of resistance to this last question too.

By for today, love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Thank you for the looking dear..

Choice? Reflections? But the answer is no since choices depends on conditions and so do reflections. I find in mind a lot of resistance to this last question too.

You can clearly see that decision also is another thought and also it happens it self

Let's look 


1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down. 2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other. 

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:- 

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise? Why that hand but not the other ?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing? 
What is it that is controlling the hand? 
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move? 
Why not the other hand but this ?
How is the decision made? 

Tell me what comes

[pia]

Hi again!
Thank you for sending me these exercises. They seem very relevant prior to the last ones! This is a journey.

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that’s is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
How is the decision made?
Why not the other hand but this ?
Can a controller of any description be located?

Being right handed it was a habit that my right hand was raised the first time. After the first time choices were made which hand to raise next but after doing it many times a kind of pattern or order made choices easier. No one is controlling the hand.This was done by thinking and acting on the thought but there is no ONE that does these choices, spooky...After looking I find that the real answer is that there is no controller or individual that can be identified or described that makes the hand move.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No, the alive hand with nervous system and muscle etc does not move without any involvement of choice or reaction so these structures are not sufficient in themselves to make the hand move.

Love, Pia

[adilerten]

Hi again!
Thank you for sending me these exercises. They seem very relevant prior to the last ones! This is a journey.

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that’s is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
How is the decision made?
Why not the other hand but this ?
Can a controller of any description be located?

Being right handed it was a habit that my right hand was raised the first time. After the first time choices were made which hand to raise next but after doing it many times a kind of pattern or order made choices easier. No one is controlling the hand.This was done by thinking and acting on the thought but there is no ONE that does these choices, spooky...After looking I find that the real answer is that there is no controller or individual that can be identified or described that makes the hand move.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No, the alive hand with nervous system and muscle etc does not move without any involvement of choice or reaction so these structures are not sufficient in themselves to make the hand move.

Love, Pia

Very good looking..

Being right handed it was a habit that my right hand was raised the first time.

As you see after the decision is made thought story comes.. "It happened because of this...Because of that.."

Decision, choices are made automatic in its own agenda.

So can you tell me what is not happening it self if there is anything ?

[adilerten]

You said before

I find in mind a lot of resistance to this last question too.

for this question of "what is not happening itself"

Do you still have this resistance ?

Can you see the auto nature of choices ?

[adilerten]

Let's look more how thoughts appear / pop up it self..


Sit down and relax. Observe this focus of attention...
See how it wanders. It simply focuses on whatever happens in the moment.

Now it might focus on thought.
You might even "get lost in thought"..

Did you decide to get lost in thought? Or did it simply happen?

When "you" come back to present moment experiencing, did you control how/when this happened?

Do you know what the next thought will be before it arrives?

Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?

Are you thinking thoughts or thoughts pop in by themselves?

Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?

Do you REALLY have any control on thoughts ? If so why don't you try to think always about pleasant thing ? Can you ?


Simply sit for 10min or so and observe. Note what you find.

[pia]

Hi again Adil!

Did you decide to get lost in thought? Or did it simply happen?

It simply happened.

When "you" come back to present moment experiencing, did you control how/when this happened?

No-it too simply happened.

Do you know what the next thought will be before it arrives?

No it just pops up

Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?

Yes by choice i can for example go in very cold water with the head under the water and then get less thoughts in a short moment- this compared to sounds that comes from sources far away is then more controlled. But there are numerous examples where neither the thoughts or sounds can be controlled. Although the conditions created prior to the thoughts popping up influence the contents and amount of thoughts popping up. Nearby sound like a radio is so much easier to control than the thoughts- by choice I can turn it off or listen to what is being said or talk to someone so then I do not hear the music or what is being said on the radio.

Are you thinking thoughts or thoughts pop in by themselves?

The come from nowhere.

Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?

Yes but sometimes it is still or more silent.

Do you REALLY have any control on thoughts ? If so why don't you try to think always about pleasant thing ? Can you ?

I think that the conditions I find myself in during the day and the choices I make prior to thoughts popping up may influence. For example being in a positive setting feeling satisfied in good company- it is more likely that the thoughts will have a more positive content. Or dealing with a lot of anxiety it is more likely to have a great amount of thoughts.When I sleep and dream There is no control. In the wider perspective I do not have any control.

This is all for tonight. I find that I have to try hard to try to invent som examples of control of thoughts in my last answers.
Love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Thank you for the looking..

Yes by choice i can for example go in very cold water with the head under the water and then get less thoughts in a short moment-

How does this mean that "you" control thoughts ?
They eventually appear less under cold water..Can you decide to have more thoughts under cold water ?
OR
how is the thought choice of going under water made ?
Why not another thought choice does not appear but that ?
What is it controls decisions ?
Is there any controller ? Where ?

I think that the conditions I find myself in during the day and the choices I make prior to thoughts popping up may influence. For example being in a positive setting feeling satisfied in good company- it is more likely that the thoughts will have a more positive content. Or dealing with a lot of anxiety it is more likely to have a great amount of thoughts.When I sleep and dream There is no control. In the wider perspective I do not have any control.

Don't think just look Do you REALLY have any control on thoughts ? Can you choose only pleasant thoughts ?


(by the way dear please don't take your answers in quote box :) only make quote for the things you want to quote from me :)

[pia]

Hi again Adil!

How does this mean that "you" control thoughts ?
They eventually appear less under cold water..Can you decide to have more thoughts under cold water ?
OR
how is the thought choice of going under water made ?
Why not another thought choice does not appear but that ?
What is it controls decisions ?
Is there any controller ? Where ?

No I cannot control my thoughts in the moment that they pop up above or under the water. It seems that I am desperately trying to hold on to the me here. Decisions comes from a complex set of conditions it is not a me doing them or a controller anywhere.

Don't think just look Do you REALLY have any control on thoughts ? Can you choose only pleasant thoughts ?

Ok i see that there is no control of the thoughts. The choices too are not me in the very moment that they arise or prior to that. It is impossible to choose only pleasant thoughts.
Sending love,
Pia

[adilerten]

Hi again Adil!

How does this mean that "you" control thoughts ?
They eventually appear less under cold water..Can you decide to have more thoughts under cold water ?
OR
how is the thought choice of going under water made ?
Why not another thought choice does not appear but that ?
What is it controls decisions ?
Is there any controller ? Where ?

No I cannot control my thoughts in the moment that they pop up above or under the water. It seems that I am desperately trying to hold on to the me here. Decisions comes from a complex set of conditions it is not a me doing them or a controller anywhere.

Don't think just look Do you REALLY have any control on thoughts ? Can you choose only pleasant thoughts ?

Yes. Very good looking. As you say its not you controlling or doing them. We might say they are chosen by conditions and situations but in direct experience we can only say they exist. thought exists. It is not knowable where and how they come from.

Ok i see that there is no control of the thoughts. The choices too are not me in the very moment that they arise or prior to that. It is impossible to choose only pleasant thoughts.
Sending love,
Pia
[/quote]

Sure if there was any kind of control you could determine what to think when.
:)

Let's move on..

[adilerten]

Is I thought a special thought?

Is it coming from the same place like all other thoughts, or.. ?

Can a thought think?

What can a thought do ?

[adilerten]

It seems that I am desperately trying to hold on to the me here.

How can you hold on to something which does not exist ?
What can an unexisting "me" do ?