Hi Jen,
I was just about to write that I have a slight feeling of discouragement because I am not sure if I am making any headway with the seeing of no self, and then I realized that this was just a thought about an illusory me, that wants to cling to this illusion of not making any headway, and these kinds of thoughts are the very thing that anchor us to this illusory self.
Yes, this is how the illusion works. But you’ve caught it. You’re doing well.
.I was BELIEVING the thought "I am not making headway", which keeps the illusion of self going!
“I was believing the thought” – What does the word ‘I’ refer to in this sentence?
What is it exactly that is believing in thoughts?
I'm having some trouble with this. I do see that the content of thought is a fiction/fantasy, but you are saying that the thought (the container of the fiction) IS happening in reality...?
Yes, when a thought is present, then it’s there. It cannot be denied that a thought has arisen (the ‘container’ itself). Similarly, when there is a mental image of a melon. The mental image is there, but what it’s about, the melon doesn’t.
Humans spend most of their time lost in thoughts, in stories. These stories consist of both thoughts and mental images plus accompanying emotions.
For example, a memory of disagreement with the boss arises. This story made of a series of thoughts and mental images, about what she said, how I felt when she said that, how I replied, then the look on her face, the anxiety felt in my stomach, the tension in the shoulders, etc.
So it cannot be denied that the story, like a movie, is going on. There are series of mental images changing from one to another, with ‘sound tracks’ of thoughts, spiced with bodily sensations (labelled as emotions).
So if we take the example of the reply movie of the disagreement with the boss, then what is real (what is really happening) and what is not?
Is there any choice in whether a story arises?
Is there any choice in whether ‘being lost in thought’ happens or not?
Please look at my previous statements below again.
Thoughts about planning can appear, but there is no ‘planner’. Planning thoughts just happening.
Thoughts ABOUT worry and future arise, but the worry doesn’t happen to anyone.
Thoughts ABOUT controlling an outcome is there, but there is no controller.
Thought ABOUT something hurtful about the past can appear, but there is no one whom these past hurtful experiences happened to.
Look at each statement one-by-one, spend some time with each, and
see if those statements are true in your actual experience. Can you see all of them?
do "know" this, and have been experiencing this, but not all the time. When I am tied up in my "story" and think I am still the doer, then I'm in the sleeping state of not seeing that there is no self.
Expecting that ‘being tied up in a story’ will never happen again, is quite unrealistic. The process of ‘being tied up in a story’ (being lost in a story) is a conditioning, which was almost constantly going on up until now. Expecting that it completely stops just because no-self is seen is quite unrealistic. So being lost in the story still happens after seeing the illusion of the self. BUT, upon investigation, after each ‘waking up’ from the story, it’s seen again and again that there is no inherently existing ‘me’ in those stories. But stories will happen again and again and again. And after ‘waking up’ from them, it needs to be seen again and again and again the falsity of these stories. The more often these lookings happen after these stories, the less time it takes to ‘wake up’ from them, and eventually, gradually they will fade away. The point is not not being lost in thought. The point is to see the no-self again and again after each story has passed.
My husband is making all kinds of noise and interruptions while I am working on responding to this, even after I told him I would like to have some time to myself., which is making me feel annoyed Here it is right here! Who is this "me" that needs space and is annoyed", I am asking myself.
This is exactly what I’m talking about. As soon as there is a realization that the ‘I’ seems to be real again, investigate it. Try to find it. Look for it. Right in the middle of story. So even while the story is still playing out itself, investigate it, look for the ‘I’ to whom all of these happen.
Was there any choice in feeling annoyed?
And here comes the self again, feeling "guilty" that I asked him for some space.
All right. So the story triggered an emotion, called ‘guilt’. Emotions themselves can be investigated too.
Was there any choice in arising of guilt? If yes, what could have decided differently?
So, what is the actual experience of guilt?
How ‘guilt’ is actually felt?
I am seeing myself in this moment as a "chooser of what I think is the right answer" for these two questions. But , then i catch myself and say, "oh, see you think you "should" say this answer. Who is the I thinking this and what is a right answer since it is all illusory, I ask myself.
How do you this investigation exactly? Do you really LOOK and search for the ‘I’ who supposedly thinking this or that, or do you just try to talk in yourself or convince yourself that the self is just an illusion?
Could you please write an example how you do the looking?
This was about the 5 minute exercise and the line on a sheet of paper. I thought about self and other about exactly the same amount. There really didn't seem to be a difference.
I’d like to ask you to repeat the exercise. But this time, also try to remember some of the thoughts that go under ‘other’.
Please write them down for me, so we can have a close look on them.
And, I can see that the "I" who doesn't have to buy into them, is also a thought. It's that loop that keeps going if we don't question it.
Exactly.
What I wanted to point out with the 2 exercises I gave you last time is to see that almost all (if not all) thoughts are about ‘me’. Sometimes, it’s not so obvious, but if you look really closely, then you can see it for yourself.
So please, watch for all thoughts during the day, and see if you can catch any thought that has nothing to with ‘me’, not even remotely. For example, the thought might be about ‘my mother whether how she feels on her holiday’, but this thought is still about me, since she is MY mother. And I WANT her to feel good. etc
Vivien
