Seeker

[Canfora]

Hi mehari,

Thank you for your kind words :)
And thank you for your answer too.

In your introduction you've wrote:

I am looking for a way of looking directly in to my real nature which is clouded by the illusory self which I call ‘me’.

And in your last post you've wrote:

for everything is possible to be experienced because i am.

Do you have the goal of finding what you are? Do you believe that what you are needs to find itself or understand itself? Or can be found and seen by itself? As if it were an extended version, a higher version, of a self?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

Do you have the goal of finding what you are? Do you believe that what you are needs to find itself or understand itself? Or can be found and seen by itself? As if it were an extended version, a higher version, of a self?
[/quote/]

Finding out who i am used to mean so much to "me" based based on the assumption that some how mehari by some kind of effort can find his true self.but now i know it's another mind game cause mehari is a thought as is finding the true self. looking life unfold and life being unfolding is what i am simultaneously. Even though functioning as if there is a doer happens from time to time, snapping out of it happens effortlessly. words falls short to fuuly reaval what i mean but i'm sure you get me.

Mehari

[Canfora]

Finding out who i am used to mean so much to "me" based based on the assumption that some how mehari by some kind of effort can find his true self.but now i know it's another mind game cause mehari is a thought as is finding the true self. looking life unfold and life being unfolding is what i am simultaneously. Even though functioning as if there is a doer happens from time to time, snapping out of it happens effortlessly. words falls short to fuuly reaval what i mean but i'm sure you get me.

I understand what you are trying to say (or I think I do). But I would like you to describe to me what you see right now. Without a self, what remains? What do you see going on?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

I understand what you are trying to say (or I think I do). But I would like you to describe to me what you see right now. Without a self, what remains? What do you see going on?

I see water on the table and a thought comes saying maybe i should drink it. i see the laptop in "my" lap
fingers typing. sounds coming from insde and out side the room. the sensation of the laptop on the body. the thought of i am sitting and typing now. you said without a self what remains? everything reamins except the belief and feeling of i am the doer, the experiencer of all. without the self i am one with the room the chair, table,the water bottle..... it's like the body and everything else is insde of the vasteness of who i am. then the thought of "but i'm still here. i'ts me mehari doing all this" creeps in and the feeling and sensation of I returns. it seems like i'm swinging between two worlds. Maybe my problem is i'm impatient to get it. it's frustrating me. i need your guidance.

mehari

[Canfora]

Hi mehari,

You are doing great! It is normal to swing for a while between the seeing that a self is only a concept created by thoughts and doubts. Keep checking if you can find an I when you remember to do so.

Maybe my problem is i'm impatient to get it.

What do you think there is to get?
Do you mean you can't see a self isn't a real entity, solid, permanent, separate or do you mean that despite the fact that you can see a self isn't a real person you are still feeling you are a self and your way of thinking didn't change like you would like it to do?

In other words, at the time being what makes you say you need more guidance? What do you think is missing?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

You are doing great! It is normal to swing for a while between the seeing that a self is only a concept created by thoughts and doubts. Keep checking if you can find an I when you remember to do so.

Thank you for the encouragment. i am seeing that the self is not real more and more and it's becoming spontaneous and effortless.

What do you think there is to get?
Do you mean you can't see a self isn't a real entity, solid, permanent, separate or do you mean that despite the fact that you can see a self isn't a real person you are still feeling you are a self and your way of thinking didn't change like you would like it to do?

In other words, at the time being what makes you say you need more guidance? What do you think is missing?

By getting it i mean an understanding that will annihilate the self once and for all. but i realized today that the I thought like any other thought will continue to surface and the only thing i have to do is to recognize it as such.
i have definetly seen without a doubt that the self doen't exist in any shape or form besides as a thought form and it only felt real because i kept identifying with it. Now it is recognized when it is pops up as a thought and have no impact on my being. But it surfaces and feels real when i'm busy working or doing other things that requires focus. still the recognition happens on it's own and i realize the state i am in and the identification vanishes. i can't tell you how much this realization have shifted how i am. i don't react to anything anymore ( almost all the time). This simple yet profound realization have made everything precious. it's hard to explain really. maybe it's the simplicity that made the old mind to think there is more to get. but that's just a thought.

Mehari

[Canfora]

Hi mehari,

i am seeing that the self is not real more and more and it's becoming spontaneous and effortless.

Wonderful!

That's a lovely post. I would like you to answer the below questions, so that I understand better what you mean:

By getting it i mean an understanding that will annihilate the self once and for all.

If the self isn't a real, solid, permanent, separate thing, what could be annihilated?
Is it okay to live with the illusion?
Isn't the illusion also a part of life itself?
Do you expect the self illusion to disappear?

i realized today that the I thought like any other thought will continue to surface and the only thing i have to do is to recognize it as such.

Yes!

i have definetly seen without a doubt that the self doesn't exist in any shape or form besides as a thought form and it only felt real because i kept identifying with it.

If there isn't a self, what gets identified?
What is the identification made of?

have no impact on my being.

What do you think "your being" is?
What has and owns a being?

i don't react to anything anymore ( almost all the time).

What do you mean? Are you feeling alienated from life? passive?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

If there isn't a self, what gets identified?
What is the identification made of?

What a question? what is identification made of? it made me quite for a long time. Identification is made of is the I thought and all the stories the made tells regarding mehari's life experiences. Identification is believing all these stories to be a reality. the truth is only only the suchness of life unfolding without anyone claiming to be it.

What do you think "your being" is?
What has and owns a being?

No one or nothing to be called "my" being. only beingness. It is said that way for lack of a better word. Once I is seen through
only life remains. Life aware of itself. life live, life seeing.

What do you mean? Are you feeling alienated from life? passive?

Actually quite the opposite. without I life is full. not lacking anything. Easy, light, flowing and effortless. "I'm" immersed in life more than ever with no with no I clouding it.

Mehari

[Canfora]

Hi mehari,
Thank you for your reply.
Do you have any doubts?
Do you feel something is missing?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

Thank you for your reply.
Do you have any doubts?
Do you feel something is missing?

Hi canfora,

I don't know how to thank you enough.Thank you for your time and your wisdom and your piercing questions.
I have no doubts left. Life is as it should be. spontaneous and immediate. i know it wil get better and better with more clarity.

The only thing missing is I.

With gratitude
mehari

[Canfora]

Hi mehari,

Thank you for your kind words! Happy to know you don't have doubts at the time being.

I still have some questions to ask you. Here is the first one:

How would you describe this to someone who has never heard of this?

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

How would you describe this to someone who has never heard of this?

Hi canfora,
Ifyou mean the non exsitence of a separate self that we call I.it's not an easy thing to explain but let me give it a shot. I would say we have been trained to accept and believe ourselves to be a separate person with unique personality traites, likes and dislike, name , gender, race and so on from early childhood. by repeating this belief throughout our life without questioning it, it became deeprooted habit in the mind that gave us the illusion of a separate individual. but the moment we start to question this "truth" and look for the the person we refer to ourselves as I, we will not be able to find it anywhere except in the form of thought. basically what we consider ourselfves to be is nothing but thoughts in diffrent forms. what we really are can't be explained but revealed once the reality of the false I is seen through.

I think that will do.

mehari

[Canfora]

That's a nice answer mehari, thank you.

We didn't talk about issues like control and choice. How would you answer this:

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Take care,
C

[mystical1977]

That's a nice answer mehari, thank you.

We didn't talk about issues like control and choice. How would you answer this:

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Take care,
C

All of them depends on the existence an I or a subject object relationship. Let’s take decision for instance. The reason one needs to make a decision is ultimately to gain the best possible outcome from whatever it is that’s it’s choosing. That means the chooser is trying to avoid the opposite result of the choice. That way of life is surely based on fear and life doesn’t have fear, only the illusory self that appears to continuously fight for it’s survival through decisions , intentions, free will and control every single move it makes. Even from logical point of view it’s completely ridiculous to think that one “entity” out of the infinitely complex happening of life can considers all the mind boggling numbers of information which is also dynamic from moment to moment and decide and get the desired result . This ego trip goes to all of others you mentioned. There is no one to decide, to intent, exercise free will, chose or control anything. Life is just IS!

Mehari


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Canfora]

Even from logical point of view it’s completely ridiculous to think that one “entity” out of the infinitely complex happening of life can considers all the mind boggling numbers of information which is also dynamic from moment to moment and decide and get the desired result .

Nicely said :)

Can you please give me some examples from things that you see happening in your everyday, normal, daily life that show that what you're saying is accurate?

In other words, how do you know that what you're saying about choice and control is true? :)

Take care,
C