Cutting through the paradox

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ossie,

Oddly, although you didn't really write it down, I think you know the difference between actual experience and description, but everything you wrote was a description.

Please add the Actusl Experience part to each line you wrote and that's what the exercises asking for. We're more interested in Actual Experience. We're not interested in descriptions, except to distinguish them from AE.

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how it goes.


I will do the first one as an example;

harsh metallic grind = sound

clanking, swishing metal spoon against metal cup =
cold handle in right hand =
warm cup in left hand =
light brown froth over dark brown coffee =
heat on lip =
taste of first sip with smooth delay of flavour after swallowing =
pressure of keys on fingers with sound of tapping =
smell of fresh coffee as the warm cup is held to my nose =
stronger taste with bigger mouthful =
liquid swishing around inside mouth =
hard and sharp teeth against tongue =
refreshing cool water =

Look back again at the example and follow it a little more closely. Like I said I think you know this, but it's not getting into print.

Thank you!

[ossie123]

Hi,

They do say third time lucky.... (I may have been getting ahead of myself)

harsh metallic grind = sound

clanking, swishing metal spoon against metal cup = sound
cold handle in right hand = sensation
warm cup in left hand = sensation
light brown froth over dark brown coffee = sight/colour
heat on lip = sensation
taste of first sip with smooth delay of flavour after swallowing = taste
pressure of keys on fingers = sensation
with sound of tapping = sound
smell of fresh coffee = smell
as the warm cup is held to my nose = sensation
stronger taste with bigger mouthful = taste
liquid swishing around inside mouth = sensation
hard and sharp teeth against tongue = sensation
refreshing cool water = sensation

[Anastacia42]

There you go!

Of course, it doesn't matter what you type on the screen to me; it matters how you sink in and become aware of how there is no such thing as a bitter taste or harsh sound, there is only taste and there is only sound.

LOOK and realize that all of that other is added and there is no reality to it. They are made up descriptions. The only thing that doesn't go away when you LOOK is the fact of a sound or the fact of color.

So, now that you have got the idea, please do it again with something else and write it up approximately the way you did with this one. You can do several of them. Each one is just a meditation on actual experience versus description.

The more you do it the more you will be preparing to see no self.

You're doing great!

[ossie123]

Hi Stacy,

Two examples to see how it goes:

Dinner last night.
Red = colour
spicy = smell
fishy = smell
hot = sensation
wet = sensation
chewey = sensation
bitter = taste
lumpy = sensation

Breakfast this morning.
Crinkle = sound
Hard = sensation
Sweet = taste
Brown = sight
Crunch = sensation
Crunch = sound
Dry = sensation

[Anastacia42]

Yes.

Can you find any of the words on the left in your actual experience? Can you point to them? Touch them? Smell them? Taste them? Is there anything there that isn't made up?

Or is it just color and we make up things to call it.? And sound and we made up something to call it? And sensation and we made up something to call it?

Much love,

[ossie123]

Can you find any of the words on the left in your actual experience? Can you point to them? Touch them? Smell them? Taste them? Is there anything there that isn't made up?

No. None of them are “real” or an actual experience. Even something simple like red was chosen because the laksa soup was so vivid but you or a colour expert might call it orange. It is just a judgement placed on the experience. Even something like hot is again just relative to what I would think is cold. “Hot” on its own is not an actual experience.

Or is it just color and we make up things to call it.? And sound and we made up something to call it? And sensation and we made up something to call it?

It is just a part of communication so we can try to share an experience. Even more than that the labelling can never be with the experience but must always follow after it. It isn’t even colour as such it is just a sensory input without any words at all.

In order to communicate the Actual Experience to you we need a common language and this is so ingrained in our conditioning that we think this language is the experience itself.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

Great!

No. None of them are “real” or an actual experience.

Yes.

this is so ingrained in our conditioning that we think this language is the experience itself.

So here is another exercise, with a different focus. We are going to look at thoughts.

Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts.

First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present. Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many, many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible.

It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Be sure to relax when you are doing the exercises. This is not stressful. We're just relaxing and noticing what is there.

Let me know how it goes.

Much love,

[ossie123]

Hi Stacy,

It is hard to think about thoughts. The easiest way to stop them is to think "What am I thinking?" Luckily that creates a gap.

The gap is a bit like the thoughts, they come and go and are pretty much random (in length at least).

At one time I tried a meditation technique of circular breathing where you stop the breathe at the end of the cycle. The thoughts also stop at that time (usually) and it is a very peaceful feeling, almost like there is nobody home until it starts again.

The "awareness" or I guess you'd call it the actual experience is aware of both the thoughts and the gaps between them. There is the experience of the thought and the experience of a gap then another thought then another gap, and so on. It is very much a process like breathing that just goes on in the background without being directed. Just like breathing I can stop it temporarily but I can't stop it totally and it goes at its own pace depending on what I'm doing.

It is also a bit like the smorgasbord of actual experiences at the zoo. There are so many thoughts I cannot possibly be aware of them all as they happen, they just happen automatically and some come in and out of awareness and the more powerful ones are retained with the others just passing on by unless I am specifically concentrating on trying to capture everything.

The gaps are really quite small in comparison to the "noise" but they definitely are there and noticeable.

Ossie

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Ah, so let's look at a difference between the exercise & what you wrote that you are trying to do. It is understandable that you've done a lot of other medications that asked for something different.

The exercise says:

Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

It is hard to think about thoughts.

So that means you're not actually trying to think about the thoughts. Just watch them go by.

The exercise says

Looking how they come and go,

We don't really care what the content is. And we are not trying to think about the content at all. Just notice it and let it go by. In a relaxed way you're observing and being aware, not trying to think about it.

I can stop it temporarily but I can't stop it totally and it goes at its own pace depending on what I'm doing.

We are not trying to stop the thoughts at all. Just let them go by like a river. In this exercise, you're not doing it while you're doing other things. You're sitting quietly for 10 to 15 minutes doing nothing else but observing the thoughts go by.

Try it just one more time and see if these adjustments help to be a little bit easier. There is no trying here. There's simply relaxing and observing. It is very important to simply relaxed and observe.

You've basically got it. You observe the gap. I just want you to get the relaxation and allowing part.

Much love,

[ossie123]

Hi,

Responding to your blue instructions….

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts.

First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

OK, I did this. Sometimes engaged and sometimes not but that is just how it went. The engagement was another thought but I tried not to ignore it but also notice my engagement.

1. Notice the current thought that is present. Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

Yes, they seemed to be random.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many, many times.

The thoughts come from nowhere and return to the same place.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

Yes, there is always a gap. The duration is a bit random but there is always a gap.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Yes, a stream of thoughts coming and going. Like noise in the silence.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible.

It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

I tried this as often as possible the first day but had to do it while doing other things, so today I set aside a time to do nothing and just did this exercise alone. I probably used the wrong word last time when I said thinking about thinking was difficult but I probably should have said noticing the thinking was difficult to make myself clearer.

It is just like background noise that happens by itself and is always there so you ignore it, and I have to “tune-in” to notice it then the noticing stops every so often but the thinking continues. Often I would tune out and have to re focus to notice the thoughts and gaps again. It is not the thinking that stops but the noticing.

Be sure to relax when you are doing the exercises. This is not stressful. We're just relaxing and noticing what is there.

Let me know how it goes.

Yes it is meditative.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Ossie.

Yes, that was clearer. Good!

I probably used the wrong word last time when I said thinking about thinking was difficult but I probably should have said noticing the thinking was difficult to make myself clearer.

I understand. That's one of the difficulties of using the printed word on the internet for this. Sometimes it's hard to be clear.

The engagement was another thought but I tried not to ignore it but also notice my engagement.

Exactly. This is very good to notice. Noticing whether or not you're engaged is just thought arising.

I want to mention that as much as I would love to hear about your life and how you're doing and the trip to the zoo and things like that, I'm trying to keep this just focused on the exercises since this is what you're here for. Also, focusing on content or story of experience is counterproductive to letting go and recognizing that there's no self and the content is made up.

So, those first exercises are a bit of skill building, so that when you do the ones about self you're really clear on the difference between Actual Experience and labels or made-up content.

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation, i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Looking forward to your replies.

Much love,

[ossie123]

Hi,

Answers below:

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second without the “I am” is more true. It is closer to the reality of the experience. When you add a description it adds a definition which is more limiting and restrictive. Less is more.

2. What is here without labels?

Not totally sure of the question, there were still labels in both options just one less label. Without the “I am” label there is just the experience itself.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

A label cannot affect the experience, it is just there after the fact to help describe it. In order to apply a label I need to have the experience, form a concept about it, match the concept to a label, then express the label. The longer the time and longer the process the further away from the actual experience so in reality the label diminishes the experience if anything at all. Probably better to say it diminishes the thought of the experience because by then the actual experience itself is long gone.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Hmmm. Not really. I was more fidgety in the second half but probably just because I’m uncomfortable where I am and it went for longer. Reading it back I did manage a smile in the second part so I may have actually been more relaxed in spite of the uncomfortableness but it wasn’t something I was aware of at the time.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ossie,

I attempted to reply yesterday, but I don't see it.

You're doing great. You're seeing the difference between AE and labels/stories/content of thought.

Let's look at the one you had questions about:

2. What is here without labels?
Not totally sure of the question, there were still labels in both options just one less label. Without the “I am” label there is just the experience itself.

Yes, just the experience itself. That's right. A favorite way to say it is "Awareness." Just for clarity, let's double-check this one. You don't have to do 20 minutes. You can do a shorter period of time - and being in this Awareness could be said to be the essence of what we call "seeing no self." It may be similar to the experience you recounted when we first started. Pure awareness, no separation.

Do the exercise again and focus only on this question, "What is here without labels?"

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation, i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer just the one question, "What is here without the labels?"

Keep in mind that there is Actual Experience of seeing color, hearing sound, feeling sensations, smelling scents and tasting tastes, and the fact of thoughts arising (but not their content/labels/stories). With that in mind, what is here in this exercise without the labels?

[ossie123]

Hi Stacy,

answer just the one question, "What is here without the labels?"

Keep in mind that there is Actual Experience of seeing color, hearing sound, feeling sensations, smelling scents and tasting tastes, and the fact of thoughts arising (but not their content/labels/stories). With that in mind, what is here in this exercise without the labels?

It might be easier for me (and you) if I try to explain in comparison to the last time I tried it….
I said there were still labels in both halves of the exercise. What I did was have the experience, think of it, apply a label, write it down. I did the same in both halves except the second half I did not write “I am” so there was not really any significant difference in what I did or experienced (even though I knew you were looking for one).
Doing it again this morning, keeping in mind your comment:

what is here in this exercise without the labels?

I expected a different result the second half. As usual I preempted the result and was expecting to just have smelling, seeing, thinking as the actual experience without the attached label of what it was.
I did the first half with the “I am” and it was the same as last time, having the experience and then thinking and labelling. The second half also started out the same with things like (taken from my notes) hearing bird, feeling stomach etc. Then I surprised myself and started just writing birds, foot, black, snoring. The opposite of what I was expecting.
It was like these sensations were just arising and …. and I don’t know what to write next. They were just arising.

What is here without the labels is not even an “actual experience” but simply things arising.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ossie,

Thank you for explaining what's happening. You're right. That is kind of backwards.

Then I surprised myself and started just writing birds, foot, black, snoring. The opposite of what I was expecting.

What you wrote is the content of thinking. It is the story. It is the label. We're asking for you to look beyond that and find the actual experience.

The actual experience may be simply thought arising. Let yourself notice that a thought arises.

Just like the apple, or the coffee cup, can you find those labels in actual experience? Or are they made up?

birds, foot, black, snoring.

What is the actual experience of bird?

What is the actual experience of foot?

What is the actual experience of thing labeled black?

What is the actual experience of thing labeled snoring?


Refer back to the instructions in previous posts and the examples given.

Looking forward to your next post

Much love,