I feel ready want truth without comprimise

[forgetmenot]

Hello Majiinx,

Ignoring thoughts and mental images of 'hands', how would it be known that the sensations are coming from ‘hands’?

I am unsure honestly.

That is okay, we will look at this more later on.

There is no such thing as the mind! Where exactly is this ‘mind’ located? What does it look like? What colour is this ‘mind’, can it be smelled, tasted, heard or felt. or is it simply the actual experience of thought?

This is where I am really stuck. I have not been able to find either an I or a mind. And yet I still sometimes find myself identifying with thoughts and perceptions. Whenever I try to simply be, thoughts pop and create the illusion of being a mind and I catch myself being caught in the endless loop of thinking and identifying as "I".

And this will become clearer as we move through this exploration.

Without thought suggesting that the sound is that of an ‘apple’, it is simply the AE of sound. Where is the ‘apple’ exactly? Since an apple cannot be found in sound, colour, smell, taste or sensation, then it must simply be a thought. So there is no sound of ‘apple’, there is simply the appearance of sound which thought suggests is that of an apple.
Can you see this?

Yes, I can see it, but still find myself getting caught up in labeling, analyzing and judging thoughts and objects.

This exploration has only just begun…so is it surprising that all of this is still happening? Don’t put expectations on yourself to ‘getting it’ quickly. The realisation happens when it happens. There is no time frame on this and there is no one controlling when it happens either. All I want you to see at this stage is what actual experience IS! If labels and thoughts appear about the seeming 'object', that is okay, they are simply the AE of thought.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part II of this exercise).

I heard the sound of my air conditioner running.

Great! Now can you repeat the exercise and tell me:-

So please repeat the exercise and tell me:-

How is it known that the sound is an air conditioner running? In other words, what is it that says it is an air conditioner?
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘air conditioner running? ‘

Please do the exercise by looking at actual experience (AE), rather than giving an intellectual answer. Actual experience (AE) = what is actually appearing ie sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation, colour), as opposed to what thoughts say are appearing.

K

[majiinx]

This exploration has only just begun…so is it surprising that all of this is still happening? Don’t put expectations on yourself to ‘getting it’ quickly. The realisation happens when it happens. There is no time frame on this and there is no one controlling when it happens either. All I want you to see at this stage is what actual experience IS! If labels and thoughts appear about the seeming 'object', that is okay, they are simply the AE of thought.

It is not too surprising, I have been practicing inquiry very thoroughly the past few months. The expectations I have I can recognize as thoughts that do not belong to me. Expectations do arise, in relation to realization but I recognize they are nothing more than thoughts.

These exercises are tremendously helpful. Perhaps you can also share some tips on ways I can inquire throughout my day and also what types of meditations can be conducive to this type of inquiry.

How is it known that the sound is an air conditioner running? In other words, what is it that says it is an air conditioner?
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘air conditioner running? ‘

There is nothing known, the actual experience of sound is just that, it suggests nothing.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Majiinx,

It is not too surprising, I have been practicing inquiry very thoroughly the past few months. The expectations I have I can recognize as thoughts that do not belong to me. Expectations do arise, in relation to realization but I recognize they are nothing more than thoughts.

Terrific! :)

These exercises are tremendously helpful. Perhaps you can also share some tips on ways I can inquire throughout my day and also what types of meditations can be conducive to this type of inquiry.

Yes, you will get tips as we move through the exploration. The tip is to LOOK at what is being pointed at and then to continue the LOOKING throughout your day. That is what these exercises are about...learning how to LOOK.

How is it known that the sound is an air conditioner running? In other words, what is it that says it is an air conditioner?
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘air conditioner running? ‘

There is nothing known, the actual experience of sound is just that, it suggests nothing.

Yes the actual experience (AE) of 'air conditioner running' is sound. Thought points to the sound and labels it 'air conditioner running'.
Is this clear?

The sound (labelled as ‘air conditioner’ running) is known. If it weren’t known then it you wouldn’t be aware of the sound! There is nothing unknown! There is no knowing without the known. Knowing and known are one and the same. And what is known? Sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation and colour are known. The contents of thought are not known, other than the fact that the content of thought is simply more thought.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

K

[majiinx]

Sorry, I did not respond sooner, the week has been hectic and I wanted to give this my full attention.

Yes the actual experience (AE) of 'air conditioner running' is sound. Thought points to the sound and labels it 'air conditioner running'.
Is this clear?

Yes, crystal clear. However, though still finds its way into the equation. And I still often find myself following thought and getting lost.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Taking a cold shower.
Seeing the water running. Simply = image/color
Smelling the essential oil in my shower. Simply = sound
Gasping for breath as the cold water touches my body. Simply = sensation and sound
Hearing the water hitting the shower floor. Simply = sound
Thinking about how cold the shower is. Simply = though

Watching Alan Watts videos on youtube.
Putting the video on with my remote. Simply = sensation.
Watching the video: Simply = seeing
Listening to his words penetrate into my being. Simply = sound
Contemplating his words. Simply = thought

[forgetmenot]

Hey Majiinx,

Sorry, I did not respond sooner, the week has been hectic and I wanted to give this my full attention.

That’s okay, but could you just let me know by sending a post via your thread saying you are busy and will reply later…this would be greatly appreciated. I am really glad to hear that you are dedicating your full attention and time to this exploration, it will benefit you greatly.

Yes the actual experience (AE) of 'air conditioner running' is sound. Thought points to the sound and labels it 'air conditioner running'.
Is this clear?

Yes, crystal clear. However, though still finds its way into the equation. And I still often find myself following thought and getting lost.

That’s great that it is clear. Thought will continue to say many things, and will continue to say the same things over and over, and it will keep pointing to an “I/me/mine”, but that doesn’t make what thought is saying real. That is why we check what thought is saying against AE.

Actual experience is everything but the content of thought, as thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If it did then you would be able to taste the thought ‘sweet’.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Lovely examples of breaking down activities into AE…thank you. Please continue to do this for several days so that AE becomes clear and the thoughts stories about AE become clear and seen for what they are…simply AE of thought.

So, let’s have a look at the nature of thought.

Here is a thought exercise. Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Love, Kay

[majiinx]

Where are they coming from and going to?

Nowhere and nowhere.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Not at all, as I sit and observed they just came and went randomly.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Not at all, I have no control over what thoughts come and go.

Can you predict your next thought?

No, not at all

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No, there is no place to select anything they are just random.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No, I cannot.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No

Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

No

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

There is no organized sense whatsoever. As I sit here typing my reply to you, I try and focus completely on the exercise and even still, thoughts appear, many completely unrelated to what I am doing.

If there is a mind to be found, which I have not, it most certainly is not mine. I have absolutely no control over it.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Majiinx,

Nice observations with the thought exercise.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

There is no organized sense whatsoever. As I sit here typing my reply to you, I try and focus completely on the exercise and even still, thoughts appear, many completely unrelated to what I am doing.

Yes…great noticing!

If there is a mind to be found, which I have not, it most certainly is not mine. I have absolutely no control over it.

So, is there a thinker of thoughts or only thoughts ABOUT there being a someone who is thinking thoughts?


Okay, so this exercise points out the difference between actual experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real (actual experience) only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

Love, Kay

[majiinx]

So, is there a thinker of thoughts or only thoughts ABOUT there being a someone who is thinking thoughts?

There is simply no thinker, I continue to look for a thinker, or more specifically a self and find absolutely nothing. As soon as I examine thoughts and search for their origin, nothing and no one can be found.

The thoughts and mental images are real (actual experience) only as arising thoughts (words and mental image), their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Yes, I can see that clearly.

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

Most of my thoughts arise spontaneously, without warning, without rhyme or reason. The second I become "aware" of the thought and look at it, it disappears. Even when thoughts and commentary about actual experiences taking place, are observed they vanish without a trace.

Even prior to us speaking I had done a tremendous amount of work and "looking". I meditate 1-2 hours a day and have been performing self-inquiry for about 6 months or so. And in my works I have found absolutely nothing, I cannot find a self, I cannot find this "I" or "ME" that keeps coming up, there is simply nothing there. I cannot even claim the thoughts that come into my head are even mine, I know this because they cannot be controlled. I cannot even claim a mind either as when I look for it I cannot find it.

Heck, I cannot even claim credit for this body and its actions. As my mind has become quieter and more clear I notice the body seemingly acts on its own. I do not have to direct it or think about what it has to do, it simply does and says what it does, independent of thought. Even when doing hot yoga I often lose awareness of my body and sometimes even physical reality itself. Even when doing poses that engage multiple muscle groups, I can seemingly only observe a small part of the body at once. If this body was mine, would I not always feel it? Why would I have to look for it?

And yet despite these observations, the "I" which I have determined to be the root cause of all of this still seemingly pops up. Even though I know that I am not Eric and do not even identify as a self. The "I" still rears its ugly head, and there is seemingly no getting rid of it. There are many times when I inquire deeply into the "I" and it completely vanishes and there is this silence and stillness. However, the silence and stillness do not stick, as this confusion and sense of unease arise. I find myself breathing heavier, not knowing what to do, not knowing how to function without the imaginary mind and imaginary "I".

What can be done to stay in this state? The state is readily available to me many times in the day. All I have to do is simply say "Who am I", "Am I aware", "To who do these thoughts belong to?" or simply "I-I" and POOF the self-vanishes without a trace. And yet somehow manages to come back into itself full circle. What can be done about this situation, there is no longer even have a desire to hold on to the imaginary self.

Even in meditation, the deepest states of meditation elude me, even though they are readily available. Even though there is nothing here there is "something" holding onto the "I" to which all my problems arise, and yet there is seemingly no getting rid of it. What can be done?

Sorry for the long rant, but you brought up the importance of honesty and really giving it my all. I really am, I have been for a long time and have gotten so far. What can be done about this problem that is seeminly creating itself?

[forgetmenot]

Hello Eric,

Thank you so much for your ‘rant’ as you called it. It is most helpful for me to see where you are at. You have shared an expectation…which is great to see and be aware of!

And yet despite these observations, the "I" which I have determined to be the root cause of all of this still seemingly pops up. Even though I know that I am not Eric and do not even identify as a self. The "I" still rears its ugly head, and there is seemingly no getting rid of it. There are many times when I inquire deeply into the "I" and it completely vanishes and there is this silence and stillness. However, the silence and stillness do not stick, as this confusion and sense of unease arise. I find myself breathing heavier, not knowing what to do, not knowing how to function without the imaginary mind and imaginary "I".

You are looking for a change of state…to BECOME something else - to become “silence and stillness”. You don’t want to identify as a person but to instead, identify as “silence and stillness” Good luck with that!

There is NO BECOMING anything. There has NEVER been a separate self in any shape or form, so why would thoughts stop or change? Thought will continually imply (infer) that there is a separate self…but when you look, do you find one?

What can be done to stay in this state? The state is readily available to me many times in the day. All I have to do is simply say "Who am I", "Am I aware", "To who do these thoughts belong to?" or simply "I-I" and POOF the self-vanishes without a trace. And yet somehow manages to come back into itself full circle. What can be done about this situation, there is no longer even have a desire to hold on to the imaginary self.

What exactly is it that is “holding onto an imaginary self”?

What would it 'feel like' not to be a person?

Is there something (a self) 'there' in the background, creating the illusion, or does the illusion simply appear? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion. Surely the interesting question is, do 'you' 'create it' it, or does it appear entirely unaided?

Looking is a nice simple thing - there is no need to over-complicate it.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?
Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is imaginary.

Even in meditation, the deepest states of meditation elude me, even though they are readily available. Even though there is nothing here there is "something" holding onto the "I" to which all my problems arise, and yet there is seemingly no getting rid of it. What can be done?

You want the identification with an “I/self” to stop as proof that you have 100% clearly seen that there is no self....right? But that idea/thought is just another thought bubble and is seen in utter clarity. Even the idea that something is identifying with thought is just an idea. There is NOTHING here that can identify with thought. Only thought says that anything is identifying as anything.

Can you see that “Even though there is nothing here there is "something" holding onto the "I" to which all my problems arise, and yet there is seemingly no getting rid of it. What can be done?” are simply thoughts?

Seeing through the illusion of “I” doesn’t mean you will lose the “I” and with it your whole identity. The “I” doesn’t exist, not even now as you are reading these lines.

A thought appears saying:- “I still believe that I am a “me”.

1. The thought “I still believe that I am a “me” arises. So the thought is actual experience of thought. And other thoughts that arise with that thought, about that thought, are the content of that thought.

2. The thought “I still believe that I am a “me” has a feeling associated with it...a feeling labelled “me”, “sense of self” etc . If there is no actual sensation, then the feeling is just another thought/idea ABOUT a “me” and the content of that label is not real.

- If there is an actual sensation, then the sensation is actual experience of sensation not the actual experience of a “me”. Sensation is actual experience BUT is not associated with the thought (that is a lie). Labels are actual experience but the content of labels are not real.

- So the thought “I still believe that I am a “me” ” is actual experience but the content of the thought is not ‘real’

- The sensation labelled as “me/sense of self” is actual experience but the content is not real.

- Any actual sensation is actual experience but not as the content of what thought labels the sensation as or what thought says about the sensation. Sensations are simply AE of sensation.

3. All previous experience of “I still believe that I am a “me” are arising in the moment but as images and thoughts, and those images and thoughts are actual experience but the content is not real.

4. The thought “a belief is experienced through emotions, sensations, memories etc” is content of a thought that is defining what “this is a belief” means.

Can you see this?

Love, Kay

[majiinx]

Wow, let me have a few days on this one, please. I want to ensure it is being done in an involved and honest way. Wait? this whole reply was simply just happening on its own until the I arose. Its just flowing out on its own, no rhyme or reason to it. I don't even see how the moments connect? It's like its just there and it didn't need anybody to make it happen.

But I did read through all of it, just need some time to let it sink in and come back and revisit with clarity. It all sounds weird, but I think you know what I mean :)

[forgetmenot]

Hey Eric,

Wow, let me have a few days on this one, please. I want to ensure it is being done in an involved and honest way. Wait? this whole reply was simply just happening on its own until the I arose. Its just flowing out on its own, no rhyme or reason to it. I don't even see how the moments connect? It's like its just there and it didn't need anybody to make it happen.

YES! - "this whole reply was simply just happening on its own until the I arose"! :)

But I did read through all of it, just need some time to let it sink in and come back and revisit with clarity. It all sounds weird, but I think you know what I mean :)

And when it sinks in, I would also like you to tell me how it made you feel, along with what aha moments appeared if any.

Love, Kay

[majiinx]

Just cause of my schedule I am going to wait a little longer before I have another go at those questions you had for me in blue. But in the meantime, I will continue to observe and be aware of actual experience. And fill you in on some "aha" moments as they come.

What I notice happens is this invisible web of thoughts becomes "untangled" as these little observations take place and as these observations happen the untangled thoughts keep popping back up. But they lose their stickiness.

Also, there is less tension and "awareness" of the body. I attribute this to being less identified with the self and therefore not having any attachment to the pain and discomfort thoughts. As I identify less and less with these things, they pop up less frequently because there is nothing for them to stick to.

When I was taking a cold shower today, I turned the water on and just walked in. No thought, no hesitation, no tension or discomfort. Just the actual experience of water being heard and felt, it all happened on its own. And then out of nowhere, the word "cold" came through, then tension and discomfort arose. And from that, the "I" arose, but I realize it was the opposite it was the "I" coming into being and because the "I" was cold. But when looking at it, I can see how this endless continuum of thought creating itself works.

And yet even with these insights, there is still thought to come through and grabbing onto itself and trying to hold on to the "I", the "self". But what is it that is identifying with it? This is where I am stuck. I cannot find anything and yet there is something that cannot find anything being lost in itself? I don't know if that makes sense, but I suspect you understand what I mean.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Eric,

Just cause of my schedule I am going to wait a little longer before I have another go at those questions you had for me in blue. But in the meantime, I will continue to observe and be aware of actual experience. And fill you in on some "aha" moments as they come.

What a lovely post to read! Thank you for sharing the aha’s! I look forward to your responses to those questions.

What I notice happens is this invisible web of thoughts becomes "untangled" as these little observations take place and as these observations happen the untangled thoughts keep popping back up. But they lose their stickiness.

Yes, it’s like the unravelling of a rug. One thread (thought) becomes unravelled which begins the process of other threads beginning to unravel.

Also, there is less tension and "awareness" of the body. I attribute this to being less identified with the self and therefore not having any attachment to the pain and discomfort thoughts. As I identify less and less with these things, they pop up less frequently because there is nothing for them to stick to.

Lovely, yes! :)

When I was taking a cold shower today, I turned the water on and just walked in. No thought, no hesitation, no tension or discomfort. Just the actual experience of water being heard and felt, it all happened on its own. And then out of nowhere, the word "cold" came through, then tension and discomfort arose. And from that, the "I" arose, but I realize it was the opposite it was the "I" coming into being and because the "I" was cold. But when looking at it, I can see how this endless continuum of thought creating itself works.

Really nice observation! The “I” thought appears in which it seemingly makes a claim to ownership/doership of what is happening.

And yet even with these insights, there is still thought to come through and grabbing onto itself and trying to hold on to the "I", the "self". But what is it that is identifying with it? This is where I am stuck. I cannot find anything and yet there is something that cannot find anything being lost in itself? I don't know if that makes sense, but I suspect you understand what I mean.

There SEEMS to be a ‘feeling’ that there is an “I” that is ‘grabbing’ onto things etc.

Imagine you lost your keys and you could swear you left them in your pocket. But when you go to check, they are not there. You empty out all your pockets, still no keys. You feel very strongly that they must be there because that was the last place you saw them. But they are simply not there. In this case, your actual experience contradicts what it is you are feeling. This happens all the time. The problem is that believing in your feelings and not your direct experience will keep you from understanding clearly. It is important to understand that just because you feel something is true, does not mean that it is. You can simply look and see what is true and what is not.

Love, Kay

[majiinx]

What exactly is it that is “holding onto an imaginary self”?

Nothing is holding into the imaginary self. It is the thought that there is an imaginary self that is trying to prevent its own demise.

What would it 'feel like' not to be a person?

I don't even know what being a person feels like anymore. Nothing is the same as ever, it is a constantly changing experience. Besides, no human wants to be human anyway. We want to transcend the limits of the human mind and follow this concept of being limitless. Which is a paradox, because how can something limited and experience limitlessness, unless those limits are self-imposed by the limitless onto itself. Which creates yet another paradox of limitless having a self.

Is there something (a self) 'there' in the background, creating the illusion, or does the illusion simply appear? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion. Surely the interesting question is, do 'you' 'create it' it, or does it appear entirely unaided?

Nothing is creating it, it is just there. Just like thought, there is nothing creating it, it is simply just there. No aid is necessary for the whole process. It is like what we see creates itself and what we think and know creates its own idea and perception of what is. There is no "I" creating anything if there was where could it be, it is nowhere be found. And yet there is still this thought of something chasing after itself. I am finding trouble distancing myself from this thought and not identifying with it.

Can you see that “Even though there is nothing here there is "something" holding onto the "I" to which all my problems arise, and yet there is seemingly no getting rid of it. What can be done?” are simply thoughts?

Yes, I see that, I see that it is false identification with the story the thoughts are telling, is what is keeping the very idea in place. Thoughts do not exist without some reference points and even there reference points are just pointing to themselves.

Can you see this?

I am baffled by this question, honestly. I don't even know what is actually responding, I cannot seem to find this. I see that I am putting myself in the bind. But cannot seem to break this vicious cycle. I just don't know?

[forgetmenot]

Hello Eric,

What exactly is it that is “holding onto an imaginary self”?

Nothing is holding into the imaginary self. It is the thought that there is an imaginary self that is trying to prevent its own demise.

Thought is not an entity that is trying to survive losing itself or an imaginary self! And an imaginary self does not exist…so how is that preventing its own demise?

I want you to LOOK..can you find anyone or anything that is “holding onto an imaginary self? Or is simply an appearing thought that is suggesting this?

Does colour itself know anything about an imaginary self?
Does sound itself know anything about an imaginary self?
Does taste itself know anything about an imaginary self?
Does smell itself know anything about an imaginary self?
Does sensation itself know anything about an imaginary self?
Does thought itself know anything about an imaginary self?

There are thoughts appearing about an imaginary self, but can an imaginary self be found?

What would it 'feel like' not to be a person?

I don't even know what being a person feels like anymore. Nothing is the same as ever, it is a constantly changing experience. Besides, no human wants to be human anyway. We want to transcend the limits of the human mind and follow this concept of being limitless. Which is a paradox, because how can something limited and experience limitlessness, unless those limits are self-imposed by the limitless onto itself. Which creates yet another paradox of limitless having a self.

There has NEVER been a person, so how it feels now is how it feels not to be a person.

Is there something (a self) 'there' in the background, creating the illusion, or does the illusion simply appear? Look at this. Reason may suggest that something must create an illusion. Surely the interesting question is, do 'you' 'create it' it, or does it appear entirely unaided?

Nothing is creating it, it is just there. Just like thought, there is nothing creating it, it is simply just there. No aid is necessary for the whole process. It is like what we see creates itself and what we think and know creates its own idea and perception of what is. There is no "I" creating anything if there was where could it be, it is nowhere be found. And yet there is still this thought of something chasing after itself. I am finding trouble distancing myself from this thought and not identifying with it.

Where is this "I" that is supposedly identifying with a thought about being an "I"?

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Can you see that “Even though there is nothing here there is "something" holding onto the "I" to which all my problems arise, and yet there is seemingly no getting rid of it. What can be done?” are simply thoughts?

Yes, I see that, I see that it is false identification with the story the thoughts are telling, is what is keeping the very idea in place. Thoughts do not exist without some reference points and even there reference points are just pointing to themselves.

What exactly is it that is “falsely identifying with the story”? Describe this someone/something to me in precise detail.

Can you see this?

I am baffled by this question, honestly. I don't even know what is actually responding, I cannot seem to find this. I see that I am putting myself in the bind. But cannot seem to break this vicious cycle. I just don't know?

This exploration is not about finding anything, it is about LOOKING and finding no one/no thing! It is about realising that there is no separate self - that the idea of a separate self is simply that – an idea. An idea that appears to no one and belongs to no one. It is simply an appearance.

When you realised that Santa Claus was an imaginary character….what actually changed? It was simply the perception of who Santa Claus is that change. Christmas still came and went, carols were still sung, presents exchanged and Santa Claus still appeared on every street corner and shopping mall.

Love, Kay