Truth

[amrita]

This all sounds very positive.

Let's examine the sense of hearing and sounds next for any sign of a self.

If you close your eyes and listen to any sound, can you find a self that is listening or is there simply sound arising? Likewise, can you say whether sound is arising inside or outside of you? Isn't it simply the case that sound arises (and passes) away without a self necessary to experience it?

Amrita

[Truth]

This all sounds very positive.

Let's examine the sense of hearing and sounds next for any sign of a self.

If you close your eyes and listen to any sound, can you find a self that is listening or is there simply sound arising? Likewise, can you say whether sound is arising inside or outside of you? Isn't it simply the case that sound arises (and passes) away withof necessary to experience it?

Amrita

There is sound arising, if I am not here to 'witness' it, sound is still arising, the world is full of the texture of sound, even in 'silence' there is some 'vibration'..

Sound 'feels' like vibration passing through a transparent awareness, no inner, no outer..

[Truth]

[This all sounds very positive.

Let's examine the sense of hearing and sounds next for any sign of a self.

If you close your eyes and listen to any sound, can you find a self that is listening or is there simply sound arising? Likewise, can you say whether sound is arising inside or outside of you? Isn't it simply the case that sound arises (and passes) away withof necessary to experience it?

Amrita

Didn't see post so reposted.

There is sound arising, if I am not here to 'witness' it, sound is still arising, the world is full of the texture of sound, even in 'silence' there is some 'vibration'..

Sound 'feels' like vibration passing through a transparent awareness, no inner, no outer../quote]

[amrita]

Lets look at the visual sense of seeing next, If you look at an object in your room can you find a self that is doing the looking or is it the case that the image simply is there? Is there a self that is doing the looking or do images (of objects) spontaneously arise?

[Truth]

User avataramrita
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Contact: Contact amrita
Re: Truth
Postby amrita » Tue May 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Lets look at the visual sense of seeing next, If you look at an object in your room can you find a self that is doing the looking or is it the case that the image simply is there? Is there a self that is doing the looking or do images (of objects) spontaneously arise?

That one is more tricky to notice, but sitting with the experience of seeing...
The object is there without me 'looking at it', I am not the witness, I don't 'need' to be a witness for the object to be there in its own isness..everything arises and falls without needing to be 'fixed' as 'seen'.
It is liberating to rest back from 'seeing' and let objects and images have their own presence..

[Truth]

User avataramrita
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:24 pm
Contact: Contact amrita
Re: Truth
Postby amrita » Tue May 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Lets look at the visual sense of seeing next, If you look at an object in your room can you find a self that is doing the looking or is it the case that the image simply is there? Is there a self that is doing the looking or do images (of objects) spontaneously arise?

That one is more tricky to notice, but sitting with the experience of seeing...
The object is there without me 'looking at it', I am not the witness, I don't 'need' to be a witness for the object to be there in its own isness..everything arises and falls without needing to be 'fixed' as 'seen'.
It is liberating to rest back from 'seeing' and let objects and images have their own presence..

Hi Amrita,
Just to let you know Im on retreat this weekend, back on Monday afternoon.

[Truth]

Hi Amrita,
Im back home now..I hope you are well.
Happy to continue exploring if you are.

Best wishes
Truth

[amrita]

Hi Truth,

As it happens I was away as well and have only just got back. Lets touch base with this process.

Here are two questions to get us started

Is there a self anywhere to be found within experience? Was there ever?

love

amrita

[Truth]

Hi Truth,

As it happens I was away as well and have only just got back. Lets touch base with this process.

Here are two questions to get us started

Is there a self anywhere to be found within experience? Was there ever?

love

amrita

There is no self anywhere to be found, in any part of this alive, vibrant experience, all is process and sensation, there is nothing fixed that can be called 'self'..

There never was a 'self', all is process, arising is response to conditions...when these conditions cease to be, then processes will cease.
There is connection and flow without any fixity of 'something' called 'self'.

[amrita]

Hi Truth,

This all sounds very positive. Let's look at choice and intention nextand the idea of thought causing an action!

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

[Truth]

Hi Truth,

This all sounds very positive. Let's look at choice and intention nextand the idea of thought causing an action!

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Hi Amrita,

It is awareness that moves the hand, in response to a thought arising, more a volition arising, the movement is controlled by a broad range of senses and muscles responding to this volition.

But there is no one 'in charge' of the volition or the movement.
It is like a breeze moving the leaves on a tree, energy/process, this arises, this comes into being..
Sitting looking out into my garden, the wind is moving the plants and bushes, but there is no one 'behind' the wind, it just is.

I am away on retreat again, from this Friday to Sunday evening.
I will dwell more on this question, and may have more to say afterwards.

Thank you for your time and encouragement.

Truth.

[amrita]

Have a great retreat!

[Truth]

Have a great retreat!

Hi Amrita,

On retreat:
Mental states were quite busy..especially in meditation.
They appeared as a flow of events passing through..rising and falling...just coming and going..without anyone directing them.
Like clouds in the sky..

Curiosity arose more than usual about the process..there was a link to the hand moving in response to a mental event..but the mental event to move the hand was more directed.

So there needs to be an 'every day' thought process to get us through the day...driving..washing up etc.

But there is just a sense of 'doing what needs to be done' without any one 'doing' the doing..

[amrita]

This sounds very positve. Lets look at thought and the contents of thought...

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?


Lots of love to you x

[Truth]

This sounds very positve. Lets look at thought and the contents of thought...

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?


Lots of love to you x

Hi Amrita,

Yes I can see that, our mind creates the 'apple', through all the senses, in actual fact there is only colour, smell and taste and touch sensation, not 'an apple' at all, we create the world through the senses and thought about an 'apple'.
Yes, what is know for sure, actual experience through the senses and a thought about an 'apple'.
Our mind creates what we suppose is an apple, but it is only sense sensations and thought that 'create' 'apple'..