LL Curtis - This is your thread

[Ingen]

I am swimming here. Meaning...it feels like I don't know what is up from down.

Good!

The imagery is not in itself the real past. No! They are just images.

That's all you can know about the past.

I have never considered that a dream (do you mean at night when the body is asleep?) could be confused with something that I thought was real.

False memories occur all the time. Could be nighttime dreams, hallucinations, or something you just imagined vividly - which now gets remembered as "real". Especially childhood memories can be plain wrong, and can be induced by something you were told.

Summary: Don't trust your mental inventory. Don't take it for granted that your thoughts/memories are true.


----

and now to the only thing that can be trusted:

I see my cup. (it is my favorite, white, tactile, textured, yet simple).
I feel the movement of my arm reaching through space for the cup.
I feel the coldness of it as I move the cup to my lips.
The heat just came on and like a soft kiss, the air touches my skin.
The thought comes... "is this what Ingen means?"

Yes, this is what Ingen meant. :)
The thought shows up in your direct experience, and gets noticed. The content of the thought might be true or not.

---------

Is there a you that is not story?

[Trinity]

Thank you for your time. You are so generous. Thank you!

Is there a you that is not story?

Yes.

Just what is here now:

A body on chair sitting,
typing,
introspecting,
hearing the dog eat,
the hum of the refigerator and
the clicking of keyboard keys.
The outline seen of a reflection of a body in the computer screen that in the story is called "Loralee".

Simple experiencing.

Very ordinary -

Human comes to mind.

The thought arrises that says: "This simplicity is not it...can't be it...there must be more!", is seen to be, and can only be, about a character named Loralee in a story.

This body, the name Loralee was given to it.

It's weird...I see that.

A dawning that I have no idea who I am without being the central character in a story.

This is felt to be bitter sweet -
The parting company with something once so familiar and believed in.

It's amazing how I thought I hated the character Loralee, to only see a love of the story of her now.

Noticing the story wants to come back, like putting back on clothes when you feel uncomfortable when naked.

[Ingen]

Is there a you that is not story?

Yes.
Just what is here now:
A body on chair sitting,
typing,
introspecting,
hearing the dog eat,
the hum of the refigerator and
the clicking of keyboard keys.
The outline seen of a reflection of a body in the computer screen that in the story is called "Loralee".

All this is here, happening now. Yes.
Is it you?

[Ingen]

I forgot to say:

Awesome work, Loralee!!!

[Trinity]

It just came to me...

Or is that just the story telling itself about another story?

[Ingen]

Direct experience is the only thing which is not a story. What you tell about direct experience is a story.

And now it is bedtime here, good night!

[Trinity]

Is there a you that is not story?

Yes.
Just what is here now:
A body on chair sitting,
typing,
introspecting,
hearing the dog eat,
the hum of the refigerator and
the clicking of keyboard keys.
The outline seen of a reflection of a body in the computer screen that in the story is called "Loralee".

All this is here, happening now. Yes.
Is it you?

I don't know.
I think it is happening to me. (The experience of the above). Or more immediate - what is going on now in my experience.

Maybe I don't understand the question.

[Ingen]

I think it is happening to me. (The experience of the above). Or more immediate - what is going on now in my experience.

Perfect. You think it is happening to you.

Can you find an experiencer of these experiences:

the hum of the refigerator and
the clicking of keyboard keys.
The outline seen of a reflection of a body in the computer screen that in the story is called "Loralee".

Look how these things are experienced: Is there a you "hearing" and "seeing" ? Or are sounds and sights "just there"?

[Trinity]

I'm going to sit on this one overnight.

I am stumped. I've contemplated for a while and my 100% honest answer so far is:

Yes, I am the experiencer of the experiences.

And yes, I am hearing and seeing,

and the sounds and sights are just there.


I'll look at this again in the morning.

:)

[Ingen]

Yes, I am the experiencer of the experiences.

How is "you, the experiencer" experienced:

Is there a center doing the processing of perceptions?

How do you direct attention to certain sounds and sights?

How do you decide where attention should go?

[Trinity]

How is "you, the experiencer" experienced:

Is there a center doing the processing of perceptions?

It all points back to the body as far as central processing -
Ears hearing, eyes seeing, nose smelling, etc...


How do you direct attention to certain sounds and sights?

By narrowing the focus of my attention.


How do you decide where attention should go?

What is either in my face demanding it,

or where I want it to be,

or where it just seems to go on it's own.

[Ingen]

It all points back to the body as far as central processing -
Ears hearing, eyes seeing, nose smelling, etc...

Do you experience your ears when hearing? Your eyes when seeing? Your nose when smelling?

Or is that something you know?

How do you decide where attention should go?

1) What is either in my face demanding it,
2) or where I want it to be,
3) or where it just seems to go on it's own.

Point 1) and 3): Yes.
How do you make attention go where you want it to be? How does that happen? Can you give my an example of your attention going someplace, uncaused by outer circumstances and impulses?

[Trinity]

Do you experience your ears when hearing? Your eyes when seeing? Your nose when smelling?

Or is that something you know?

Both.

When I play around with it, I am finding that with sound, it can be just kind of like a gentle noticing. But if I am focused on myself and where am I hearing from, my attention goes to my ears, but as I am doing this right now, I don't know. I seem to be enveloped by sound. But wait...there was just a sharp loud sound, and I feel it in my ears.

As above, if I am not focused on my eyes, sight just is happening. There is just seeing. I am not making my eyes see or even aware of them seeing, unless I focus on it. But when I close my eyes, there is darkness. And if I plug my ears no hearing.

So in that sense, yes, this is something I know from direct experience.

This would go for all the senses.


How do you make attention go where you want it to be?

Personal will. (And sometimes through great force and struggle! Like training a dog! lol!)

How does that happen?

In my case, I see it is through a dense complex system of desires, beliefs and so on. (Like my wanting to have this be the center of my focus and attention).

But if I look really close at your question...I get lost. (The how of the how part).



Can you give me an example of your attention going someplace, uncaused by outer circumstances and impulses?

So far, no. Even when I focus on attention itself, that to was caused by your asking the question.

Wait...Now I am swimming again. It's like...Is attention here in suspention, and then it contracts itself by certain stimulus?

It feels like that.

It appears to be doing it (focusing) on its own.

But is this still just by way of contracting upon what matters to me, via, my desires and beliefs???

This is where I am swimming at the moment.

[Ingen]

What gets you swimming is what is getting you free.

Here I'll give you an exercise to explore direct experience. Would you report back what you find?
------------
Close your eyes and search for the boundary of you. Where do you end and where does the world begin? In your direct experience, how tall are you? How old? How many toes do you have? Couldn't you be any shape? Can you feel a boundary between skin and clothes, or is this only a kind of blurry sensation?

Smell a rose or dogshit. Without thinking, without telling stories: Is there a you smelling the flower? Or is there only the experience of smell...

When you open your eyes, what happens? Is there a you looking out of two holes in you head?
Are you doing seeing? Or are the sights just here, without any boundary?

[Trinity]

Thank you Ingen!

Yes, I will!

I printed off what you gave me to do, to take with me to an appointment that I have, and will do it while I wait. I will report back later.

:)