The Gate

P.S.
Just want to add that it all seems a bit of a joke....this fixation with 'i' and 'my'....as if all of life so far, the way of believing in a separate self, the sense of ownership of life, is hilarious, when you see how it really is......:-D !!

PPS
You said it would be okay to mention emotional turbulence during this inquiry process.....today, under the surface, not expressed but burbling away were feelings of distress, but also of wanting to run to everyone and love and hug them. commitment to allowing these feelings (and trusting them) dropped and i picked up a novel, and comfort noshed, and held everything in tightly....perhaps resistance to the truth?
so winding up the commitment level here so that diversions from fully experiencing the energetic consequences of 'seeing' don't hold back the deepening of this inquiry.....really want to step into that 'flow'

It is holiday time so fully understand you having other calls on your precious time....thanks for all you do give. you sound so calm and deep and present....it helps.

Hi Russ,

Let's start with this, and if there isn't too much fear you can proceed to my questions below. If fear or other emotions crop up, go ahead and ignore my questions for now and just consider my questions to do with the fear. Be with it and let it open up to you. I've thrown a lot at you this time, so please take your time.

You said it would be okay to mention emotional turbulence during this inquiry process.....today, under the surface, not expressed but burbling away were feelings of distress, but also of wanting to run to everyone and love and hug them. commitment to allowing these feelings (and trusting them) dropped and i picked up a novel, and comfort noshed, and held everything in tightly....perhaps resistance to the truth?
so winding up the commitment level here so that diversions from fully experiencing the energetic consequences of 'seeing' don't hold back the deepening of this inquiry.....really want to step into that 'flow'

Where are these feelings? How are they experienced and felt? Can they be allowed to be here, no matter how intense they may seem? Is it possible to get rid of them anyways? Are these feelings protecting something? If so, what? Can you find anything right now that needs to be protected?

Knowledge about the inner workings of the body comes from medical science. Direct experience of research from dissection and study. Photos from war scenes where bodies have been wounded can also show that inside this thing we call a body are organs , blood, etc....

How is all of this directly experienced right now in this moment?

I'd like you to try an exercise, it's to do with what we're looking at. Hold your hand up and cover something from your sight. Say you cover a clock on the wall with your hand. Is a clock there? How do you know it's there, because you see it directly, or is it an assumption, a thought saying "there's a clock there"? This assumption is obviously very safe as you just saw the real thing a moment ago, but can you confirm to me that the only way of experiencing the clock (or anything that is removed from the direct senses) is from a thought?

It is useful to differentiate for this inquiry where information is coming from, whether it's assumption (however reliable) in the from of a thought, or if it's experienced directly through the senses.

When looking for something, i scan the memory, searching for an image or thought of where the e.g. wallet might have last been seen.

So first you experienced a real wallet - the wallet you could touch, and see, and smell, even taste if you cared to lick it? Then, you have images which can be conjured up of that wallet. There is a real wallet, and the wallet of your thoughts, is this right?

How about the self? Have you experienced a separate self, a me, in any other way[/b before, other than as a thought?

The looking for the self is just the same as looking for that lost wallet, or better yet for car keys. Would you be satisfied with just finding thoughts of your keys? Will the thought "car keys" start the ignition? So we're out to look for the real self, and it's to be noted if you only find thoughts of a self.

Thoughts about a self = a self?

Just want to add that it all seems a bit of a joke....this fixation with 'i' and 'my'....as if all of life so far, the way of believing in a separate self, the sense of ownership of life, is hilarious, when you see how it really is......:-D !!

Yep :). When it's seen for what it really is, humor is very common!

It is holiday time so fully understand you having other calls on your precious time....thanks for all you do give. you sound so calm and deep and present....it helps.

It's my pleasure really. I was lucky and fortunate to be guided through this and now I feel the desire to do the same for others 10 fold. This is absolutely worth it, even if it's uncomfortable at times - but than again life is uncomfortable anyhow :D.

Wesley

Hi Wesley,
Will get straight into it!....

How is all of this directly experienced right now in this moment?

MOstly the inner workings of the body, the knowledge of organs for e.g., comes from thought....i have been told the organs are in the body, and how they function, and i assume they are there because the body seems to function correctly. if i prick my thumb blood will emerge, so i know there is blood in the body. that would be direct experience of blood. if i swallow a pea, i can feel it on my tongue, and i can poke my tongue out and see it in a mirror, and i feel as i swallow, the throat contracts and uses motions to transport that pea into....and then i lose the sense and go into thoughts of the stomach and what it does to process that pea into elements the body can use in various ways,...

This assumption is obviously very safe as you just saw the real thing a moment ago, but can you confirm to me that the only way of experiencing the clock (or anything that is removed from the direct senses) is from a thought?

Yes, I see that. When i can not see the thing, it becomes an assumption and not a direct sense. just a thought, based on a memory or imagination.

So first you experienced a real wallet - the wallet you could touch, and see, and smell, even taste if you cared to lick it? Then, you have images which can be conjured up of that wallet. There is a real wallet, and the wallet of your thoughts, is this right?

Yes, there is the real thing, and then there are my thoughts about that thing. i see this.

How about the self? Have you experienced a separate self, a me, in any other way[/b before, other than as a thought?

No, the self is only a thought. i have no direct experience of it at all. some sensations like the ease and release of tension that comes with making a heartfelt decision to do the right thing, and which have then become attached with the thought of 'I feel at peace'', are just energetic consequences of thoughts, not evidence of a 'self'.....the 'me' is just a thought. there is no 'my' body, 'my' thoughts....there is just 'body' and 'thoughts'... there is no me to own them. Ha!

The looking for the self is just the same as looking for that lost wallet, or better yet for car keys. Would you be satisfied with just finding thoughts of your keys? Will the thought "car keys" start the ignition?

I like this analogy of the car keys and will the thought 'car keys' start the ignition. i can see clearly that thoughts of the self, do not evidence a real self. i can detect no self with any senses at all. no core self, no true self, no deepest self. no self at all. there are feelings felt deep inside the body in response to certain thoughts, but that is just Nature being experienced, not a self. this body and its sensations seem to be a vehicle for thoughts to express themselves, but there is, and never has been a self owning it all. there is just Nature. the continual arising and passing of thoughts over which there is no control.

Thoughts about a self = a self?

THought about the self are just thoughts. THere is nothing in here. no self....there is life, there is beauty, there is doing but there is no self. No 'one' deciding, intending, choosing, just thoughts and energy felt in the body.


I will continue to consider your questions through the day, and may add more later
:-D
R

THere's a feeling of joy here too, at seeing how beautiful it all is....thoughts, feelings, sensations....that's all there is. thoughts, feelings, sensations...and their expression in all the diverse ways possible...no 'i' 'me' 'self'. such a relief!

just wanted to add that :-)

Just to confirm...

Have you experienced a separate self, a me, in any other way[/b before, other than as a thought?

.i have reread your pointers many times and have scanned my memory for any direct experience of a self, and have found nothing there. nothing to support the thought of a self at all. nothing! .......EVerything is carrying on as before....thoughts arising, feelings, actions happening but there is no 'me' doing any of it. there is no 'me'.....the beliefs about a self that are held in memory are based on thoughts of a self, and not on a real self.....now that i see how to look, it is so obvious...thankyou for this gift :-)

Hi Russ,

Will get back to you tomorrow morning after Christmas :).

Wesley

Hi Russ,

It seems you are diving into this inquiry earnestly, you're doing splendid with this.

Okay, so you seem sure that the self is just a thought.

So, can a thought think? Can a thought own something? Can thoughts make a decision?

Hug,
Wesley

HI Wesley,

It seems you are diving into this inquiry earnestly, you're doing splendid with this.

Thanks for the encouragement. I do feel my perceptions about life have changed, and an easing of tension with this, and an increased curiosity about what is this thing called life....

.

Okay, so you seem sure that the self is just a thought.

So, can a thought think? Can a thought own something? Can thoughts make a decision?

It just seems as though there are an endless array of thoughts arising, no thought thinking, just though'ts constantly appearing. I had always thought there seems to be some ability to choose to run with a thought,some sense of volition, as if thoughts were random cars passing by and 'i' could choose to get in one and go somewhere in it, but now that i see there is no 'i' and no 'doer' apart from the thoughts about them, then what seems to be a choice by 'me' is just new thoughts (with their resultant energy) arising. .. there do seem to be different weight to energies that arise with different thoughts, which may be a law of Nature e.g.when there is intent and focus and opening to what is, and discipline and restraint, lighter thoughts seem to arise like compassionate thoughts, loving thoughts, and often a sense of peace is felt too...
nothing is thinking, owning, deciding...just thoughts and energy arising.....THere is no ownership of thoughts, or by thought, just arising thought. ....This is so freeing to see :-D

p.s.....and a great ocean of emptiness within where all is possible.....very peaceful when that is seen

Hi Russ,

Glad to hear things seem to feel lighter and you're feeling peace ;)

I had always thought there seems to be some ability to choose to run with a thought,some sense of volition, as if thoughts were random cars passing by and 'i' could choose to get in one and go somewhere in it, but now that i see there is no 'i' and no 'doer' apart from the thoughts about them, then what seems to be a choice by 'me' is just new thoughts (with their resultant energy) arising

Are you saying that because there is no 'I', choice doesn't happen?
Are you 100% sure that thoughts cannot think other thoughts?

If 'I' is not a thought, than what is it? Where does I/me/Russ exist?

Wesley

Hi Wesley, :)

Are you saying that because there is no 'I', choice doesn't happen?

No I'm saying choice happens. Just the 'I' label that comes in saying "i' chose that", is just a thought. There is no 'i' in control making choices. There does seem to be,however an awareness,.... inner space for all that is going on. Awareness is present when choices are happening.....when a decision point is presented, it seems like inner space opens up as different thoughts and feelings arise (expanding or contracting), then whichever is strongest in energy becomes what is expressed and away we go....choice happened. but there is no'i' choosing, just choosing happening.

Are you 100% sure that thoughts cannot think other thoughts?

I don't see how a thought, which appears from somewhere, can think another thought. It is not an entity itself, just thought appearing. there does seem to be an ability for the content of thoughts to be connected from thought to thought, so focus and intent seems to help with that, but i don't think that is thought thinking....just thought and energy working together to do stuff. THe more openness and willingness (intent) are present in each moment, the more original and light are the thoughts appearing

If 'I' is not a thought, than what is it? Where does I/me/Russ exist?

The 'i" is an imagined entity, a fictional character like Superman or WonderWoman.... I/me/Russ exists in language....just a familiar word association for everything in the body/mind/spirit complex. But i/me/Russ aren't real beyond language, aren't needed for that bms complex to go about living life.....

p.s. Hug.... :-D
R

Good evening Russ,

No I'm saying choice happens. Just the 'I' label that comes in saying "i' chose that", is just a thought. There is no 'i' in control making choices.

Oh okay, thank you for clarifying.

I don't see how a thought, which appears from somewhere, can think another thought. It is not an entity itself, just thought appearing.

This sounds more like a logical explanation to me, like it just doesn't make sense that a thought can think another thought. I'd like you to take just one minute, and watch thoughts closely. With as little interpretation as possible, what is really happening? What can actually be known for 100% sure?

The 'i" is an imagined entity, a fictional character like Superman or WonderWoman.... I/me/Russ exists in language....just a familiar word association for everything in the body/mind/spirit complex. But i/me/Russ aren't real beyond language, aren't needed for that bms complex to go about living life.....

Good! How about awareness than. Are you awareness? Are you the one aware of Russ, of me?

Big hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley,

I'd like you to take just one minute, and watch thoughts closely. With as little interpretation as possible, what is really happening? What can actually be known for 100% sure?

Thoughts are just appearing. thought does not think other thoughts....100% sure

How about awareness than. Are you awareness? Are you the one aware of Russ, of me?

No, there is no 'i'. Awareness just is. Ever present.

:-D
R