GETIT!

[Matthew]

I am “thoughting” that it’s he “aha” moment/liminal space between not having seen that there is no I, and having seen that, in an experiential away.

I suppose you have read many stories about various aha-moments.
This gives rise to expectations, naturally. These expectations will never be met.
Since this kind of aha-moment is expected to be the discovery of something new.
While we are only looking at what's already true and has always been.

Just drop the expectation about an Aha-moment. Drop it right here.
And look what is here. What remains here.




_______________________________________________
So there are thoughts about a character called "me" or whatever the name is.
And there are thoughts about "other characters".

Please have a look at a thought about the character "me".
Look at it directly.

Then have a look at a thought about a different thought character.
Friend, colleague, family member.
Look at it directly.


Compare these two thoughts. Is there a differnence between thought about the character "me" and thought about a different character?
Is there something special about me-thoughts?
Is there a difference in the nature if these different thoughts? Or is it just different content?

No, I don’t expect the thoughts about the “me” character to disappear completely or partially. I don’t care either way, as long as “it” is not taken seriously
To be ignored and disregarded, would be nice!..

Would you wish for thought about "others" to dissapear?
Most of the time not I suppose :)

Would you wish for thought about "others" to be ignored or disregarded?
Usually not. Because your just ok with the appearance of thought about "others".

Couldn't there be the same equanimity with arising thought about the "me" character?

[Kixem]

Hi Matthew,
Thank you for your so prompt response.
Yes, I have read many accounts of the aha moment, and they sound delicious..
It pains me to give it up and it’s rather unpleasant but your point makes sense.
“And look what is here. What remains here.” is: keep looking, keep investigating.
“..have a look at a thought about the character “me”. Look at it directly.”
How to look at it directly? What does that mean? I “look”, think about what/who/where is “me”, “I “. I see a body with all its functions, a thinking activity going on, a history, preferences, aversions, fears, opinions, circumstances, etc. etc.
What else or different is there for me to see if I look “directly”?
And if I look at a thought of different “me”s, I see the same thing, with absolutely no difference whatsoever. None, except in the details. Nothing special about the “me” thoughts or the “other” thoughts. Speaking of “others”, the “I” I perceive myself as being, is so subject to the “others” moods, comments, opinions, behaviors.
Would I wish for the thought about “others” to be ignored or disregarded or to disappear?
What I wish is that I operate out having seen that there is really no “one” here or there.
This morning, before I was fully awake and just when I was in the threshold between consciousness and unconsciousness, this thought arose, ever so clear and loud and assertive: “Nothing to defend, nothing to promote, nothing to maintain”. That’s the space want to operate out of.
I sincerely hope that I make sense and I am on topic.

[Matthew]

I sincerely hope that I make sense and I am on topic.

Yes of course! Just always write what comes up, what's here at the moment.
Don't mind making sense and the like! All is good.

is: keep looking, keep investigating.

That sounds like a lot of effort invested :)
Looking sometimes requires some effort, yes.
But what we are dealing with here is true already.
Try to keep this whole story about an investigation in a relaxed and joyful fashion!

How to look at it directly?

Happy to explain this!

Bring up the thought "I" by saying it loudly or just as a thought.
"I"... "I"... "I"...
Do this as often as required, until it is right there.
There will be other thoughts, describing this "I", telling a story about it.
But don't mind the stories while investigating.
Just look at this "I" directly, like a hawk.
When it is right there, you can inquire and pose questions.


Bring up the thought "I" in this way and then have a look:

Does "I" react?
Can "I" think other thoughts?
Can "I" do anything?
Can "I" become anything else than the thought "I"?

[Kixem]

Hi Matthew,

“Just always write what comes up, what's here at the moment.”

What’s here at the moment for me is, when I’m alone and immersed in reading about or looking at no “self”, illusion of “I”, “me” being just a thought, I have glimpses of it, albeit partial, not comprehensive and full or lasting.
When I get out there, in the real world, things get murky..
The person under whose direction I work has an exquisite knack of getting under my skin at will(his will)and I often, very often, I end up feeling insulted, terrorized, enraged, hateful, hurt and on and on.. It then becomes apparent that I don’t get it or “seeing” hasn’t happen and I get anxious and depressed about it. I have failed to pass the test in the real world. I feel suffocated. How’s that for being enlightened!..

“Bring up the thought "I" in this way and then have a look:
Does "I" react?
Can "I" think other thoughts?
Can "I" do anything?
Can "I" become anything else than the thought "I"?”

Useful exercise in finding and observing “I”.
No, I doesn’t react. It plays dead. It’s like there’s nobody there, although it feels, for some reason, more accurate to say that there’s a dead something there. Nothing.
No, “I” can’t think anything, can’t do anything, cannot become anything. There’s nobody there to thing or do or become anything. It’s just nothing there.

I feel stuck.

[Matthew]

I feel stuck.

Here's how:

when I’m alone and immersed in reading about ... “self”

For your very own sake, now it is enough with reading about such things!
All this apparent knowledge had only the reason to bring you up to a point, where you are curious, ready and courageous enough to look for yourself what is true and what is not true.
All these books, videos, gurus served you well. They've brought you at the edge of direct investigation.
They've served you well, now it is time to leave them behind.
Can you do that?

There is nothing noteworthy that these things could ever teach you!
Trust only ever in your very own experience and insight and report only ever from that perspective!

From this point on, holding onto teachings and teachers will be nothing but an obstacle for seeing this utter simplicity, which is already here. Right now. Always has been.

So drop it. Right here. These books!

The person under whose direction I work has an exquisite knack of getting under my skin at will(his will)and I often, very often, I end up feeling insulted, terrorized, enraged, hateful, hurt and on and on..

Yes. In a world, where "you" and "me" actually exists as a separate phenomenon, such things can occur.
But this world does not exist appart from imagination.

insulted, terrorized, enraged, hateful, hurt

The subtle idea, that comes up as often as the idea "me" in such cases is the idea "because".

I am insulted because of this.
I am terrorised because of that.
I am enraged because of this.
I am hateful because of that.
I am hurt because of this.

When this happens, drop the idea "because".
What remains here?

Then drop the idea "I am this or that"
What remains here?


What is enraged?

[Kixem]

When the “I am” and the “because” is left out what remains is hate, rage, terror, hurt insult, a racing heart beat, a tense body.
(Argh..I don’t want to go back to work and face him..)

[Matthew]

When the “I am” and the “because” is left out what remains is hate, rage, terror, hurt insult, a racing heart beat, a tense body.

There is hate. Thoughts about hate. What has that hate?
There is rage. Does anything have that rage? What would that be?
There is a a racing heart beat. What does that belong to exactly? Something? Or nothing?
There is a tense body. Who does this tense body belong to exactly? Someone? Or no one?

I don’t want to go back to work and face him

What "I" exactly does not want to go back?

Can a thought want something or not want something?

I don’t want to go back to work and face him

Does this "I" actually exist?
Or are you just imagining it right now?

[Kixem]

“There is hate. Thoughts about hate. What has that hate?
There is rage. Does anything have that rage? What would that be?
There is a a racing heart beat. What does that belong to exactly? Something? Or nothing?
There is a tense body. Who does this tense body belong to exactly? Someone? Or no one?”

I don’t know what has the hate. I only know there is hatred. Ditto the rage and everything else. The body has no owner.
(If there’s no ownership here of anything, then why are all these feelings and sensations sticking around? If there’s no one to claim them why aren’t they disappearing, or better yet not appear in the first place?
I’m either not looking the right way to really see the truth or I’m refusing to accept the truth.)
Please show me.

[Kixem]

“”What "I" exactly does not want to go back?”

The ”one” that was hurt, enraged, insulted, etc. Does that “one” exist? If it does not, then
WHY THE FEELINGS??(I want to be Teflon as to feelings; Velcro as to the truth)”

““Does this "I" actually exist?
Or are you just imagining it right now?”

I DON’T KNOW.

[Matthew]

I don’t know what has the hate.

Right!
So in actual experience, in what is here right now:

Look for that, which owns the hatred. Do it now!
Look for that, which has the rage. Do it now!
Look for that, which is in terror. Do it now!
Look for that, what is hurt. Do it now!

And then the simple question while looking:

What can be found?
A thing or a one which all these things belong to?
Or no thing and no one at all?

If there’s no ownership here of anything, then why are all these feelings and sensations sticking around? If there’s no one to claim them why aren’t they disappearing, or better yet not appear in the first place?

Well...
This is a human story. And in a human story there appear human feelings and human sensations.

Sometimes when watching a movie and there is a scary scene, you're like: "Oh my gosh, I'm so scared!"
But you KNOW it's a movie.
Sometimes when watching a movie and there is a lovely scene, you're like: "Oh this is sooo beautiful!"
But you KNOW it's a movie.
Sometimes when watching a movie and there is a sad scene, you're like: "I actually have to cry right now"
You feel for the character. But still. You KNOW it's a movie and you KNOW that there is no one in realily who could truly be hurt.

In this human story, where the character "me" plays the lead role, all these things also appear.
Happiness, sadness, being hurt, love...
But could you TRULY be bothered by a story?
Could you TRULY be bothered by the appearance of a story character, "me"?

I’m either not looking the right way to really see the truth or I’m refusing to accept the truth.)

You are just missing something too obvious.
Like looking for your glasses while wearing them.
Or like looking for the car keys while holding them in hand.

As we have seen:
"I" is a thought.
Can a thought realise anything?

If not...
Who or what is supposed to realise anything?

[Kixem]

Look for that, which owns the hatred. Do it now!
Look for that, which has the rage. Do it now!
Look for that, which is in terror. Do it now!
Look for that, what is hurt. Do it now!

Very true, no one, nothing owns the hatred, or has the rage, or is in terror, or hurt. No one. I can’t find an owner or an issuer. There’s no “I” those feelings and sensations belong to. The “I” is not there. There’s silence, a void where the “I” was thought to exist. How much different “am I” from an amoeba, or a fly, or anything in between? Although I don’t know, a fly doesn’t seem to be under the delusion of an “I”, it does its thing, it “flys”, the amoeba “amoebas”, both free of the “I” fallacy. I don’t think the amoeba takes it personally and becomes full of hatred and rage, is hurt and in terror if it gets eaten by a.. I don’t know, whatever..
How can I see that since, I have agreed, there is no “self”, there’s no obligation on my part to get all riled up about what my coworker said or did? How can I get unstuck?
Is it because, perhaps, I understand that there’s no “I” but haven’t really “seen” it?

[Matthew]

Is it because, perhaps, I understand that there’s no “I” but haven’t really “seen” it?

Well...

The “I” is not there. There’s silence, a void where the “I” was thought to exist.

Does this seem like a mere intellectual understanding?
Or is that a clear recognition? An "Aha! THAT'S how it is.."

You tell me!

it does its thing, it “flys”, the amoeba “amoebas”

And a human doesn't simply "human around"?^^

How can I get unstuck?

It was seen that hatred, anger and the like appear as thoughts but do not belong to anything or anyone.
Okay so far.
So there is a wish remaining for things to be different.

Are you in charge over what's happening?
Can you influence how things are going to unfold?
Or is it just thought suggesting so.
Wouldn't it take a controller for there to be control?

What can be found when looking for a controller?
Something or nothing?
Someone or no one?



In addition, please have a look at the following questions.
Do not answer from memory or understanding, but look at thought completely afresh!

1. Can you choose, not to have negative thoughts?

2. Can you choose, only to have positive thoughts?

3. Can you decide, not to think?

4. Is there a "thinker" to be found, thinking other thoughts? Or is "thinker" itself also a thought?

[Kixem]

Hi Matthew,

Does this seem like a mere intellectual understanding?
Or is that a clear recognition? An "Aha! THAT'S how it is.."

You tell me!

I guess I am still considering the proposition..

And a human doesn't simply "human around"?^^

‪With no question it does. If my name were Bob, which it isn’t, I would be “Bob-ing” around. Which I am, anyway, bobbing around..‬

So there is a wish remaining for things to be different.

‪You bet! Absolutely there is a wish for things to be different.‬

Are you in charge over what's happening?

Most definitely not.

Can you influence how things are going to unfold?

Absolutely not.

Wouldn't it take a controller for there to be control?

Yes, and I ain’t the one.

What can be found when looking for a controller?

There’s no one at the control center.

Something or nothing?

Nothing.

Someone or no one?

Not a single soul.

Can you choose, not to have negative thoughts?

‪Sometimes when an unpleasant thought arises, I can, sort of(I think..), negotiate myself into avoiding continuing with the same unpleasant thought. But as a rule, “no negative/unpleasant thoughts are to be thought”, kind of way? No. ‬I have no such choice.

Can you choose, only to have positive thoughts?

‪No. I will have the thoughts that are coming up next to be thought. And that’s that. No choice. Whatsoever.‬

Can you decide, not to think?

Ha, ha..No.

Is there a "thinker" to be found, thinking other thoughts? Or is "thinker" itself also a thought?

‪Oh, well, that’s where things get a little tricky..if thoughts are being thought, how then does that happen? Who thinks them? I don’t know. I often find myself checking myself, “ok, did I get it now? let’s see..(I will then do some mental review and calculations to determine if I got or not..) No, not yet.. And later on I will go through the same process, (how about now? NOW did I get it..is my reality different ?..)and the answer is, of course, always negative. I am looking for evidence(even though I don’t know what that evidence would look like if I saw it..)‬
‪What having seen feels like? Does the outlook on life change? I know, stupid questions..‬

[Matthew]

Sometimes when an unpleasant thought arises, I can, sort of(I think..), negotiate myself into avoiding continuing with the same unpleasant thought.

So what happens there?
Reading this it sounds like
1. There is a negative thought
2. A thought follows the negative thought with the content "negotiate myself into avoiding continuing with the same unpleasant thought"

Have you conciously brought forth the first thought?
Have you conciously brought forth the second thought?
Or is it like here:

‪No. I will have the thoughts that are coming up next to be thought. And that’s that. No choice. Whatsoever.‬

Did the second thought ("I want to avoid that") just follow the negative one automatically?
What can be observed here?

if thoughts are being thought, how then does that happen? Who thinks them?

Okay.
Think of a tree.
There is a thought "I am thinking of a tree right now".
What is the "I" in this sentence? What is the "I" in this thought?
Is it something above or besides the thought? Is there any evidence for that in actual experience?
Or is "I" itself here also a thought. Like "tree"?

how about now? NOW did I get it..is my reality different ?

How about here.
Is the "I" some kind of entity above or besides that thought?
Or is it here also just a little thought, a letter.
Can a thought get something?
Can "I" get it?

[Kixem]

Hi Matthew,
I am most appreciative of your patience with me.

Did the second thought ("I want to avoid that") just follow the negative one automatically?
What can be observed here?

‪Of course...that’s exactly what’s happening..thought after thought after thought..blah blah blah‬.

What is the "I" in this sentence? What is the "I" in this thought?
Is it something above or besides the thought? Is there any evidence for that in actual experience?
Or is "I" itself here also a thought. Like "tree"?

The “I” exists only as part of the narrative of the thought. So, “I” isn’t real, neither as a subject nor as an object? Or are both possibilities irrelevant and don’t apply to the question?‬

Is the "I" some kind of entity above or besides that thought?
Or is it here also just a little thought, a letter.
Can a thought get something?
Can "I" get it?

‪Man, you keep stripping away every single shred of the familiar/conventional..where/how is this going to end?..ha ha..‬
‪I am looking at all of this, but I am expecting that my experience of the world will be changed as a result. And it’s not. ‬