The Gate

Look to your hands. What do you see?

Are hands part of you?

Are you something that is inside hands?

You can even do an imaginary body scan to see if the body is / has more than bone, muscle, flesh among it.
Let me know how it goes.

Hello Canfora,

You've really got me questioning now!

Look to your hands. What do you see?

I see a pair of hands, I see folds, wrinkles, marks, pores, hairs etc.

Are hands part of you?

They feel like a part of me but this immediately brings me to question who is me?

Are you something that is inside hands?

I really don't feel like I'm inside my hands, or I don't feel that way with any of my extremities but when I do the exercise with my head I do feel like I'm inside my head even inside my chest, I guess because of the thinking and feeling, because of the dialogue I hear inside my head as these questions are being asked.

You can even do an imaginary body scan to see if the body is / has more than bone, muscle, flesh among it.
Let me know how it goes.

When I do the imaginary body scan I don't see anything other than just the parts that make up the body, organs, skeleton veins, muscles etc..

What would you say is looking for a self?

The immediate answer is "well I am" but again it brings me to question who am I and this brings me to question who is questioning the who am I and it starts to feel like an ongoing unfolding with out end.
So what would I say is looking for a self is the mind.

You've really got me questioning now!

The immediate answer is "well I am" but again it brings me to question who am I and this brings me to question who is questioning the who am I and it starts to feel like an ongoing unfolding with out end.

So what would I say is looking for a self is the mind.

the dialogue I hear inside my head as these questions are being asked

</s> First you experience, then you know<e>

</s>What is this mind then?<br/>
Is mind a real, findable thing that can look at something? <br/>
Or Is mind more a label given to a stream of thinking?<e>

Are you sure thinking is happening inside the head? Do you experience the head as a container inside which thoughts are happening?

Spend some time looking at the origin of thinking. What would you say is thinking thoughts? Can a thought think a thought?

So far the speed is fine, I like and appreciate the immediacy of your answering for me it's better as it keeps alive the questioning in my day to day and inquiring. Actually at times I wish I was it was a continuous dialogue. The truth is I really want to be done with this and pierce through the veil as to say.<br/>
I understand though that it's not this way and it gives time to process the inquiry.

This is a refreshing reminder, it's interesting how caught up we get that loop of thought seemed like a seeing and being trapped repeating over and over again but your pointer makes it clear that it's all thought, could it be that the the experience of this moment is silence always readily available until the mind kicks in and starts to try to define it that's how it feels when I close my eyes and try to see.<br/>

Sorry for the jumping around but I'm just trying to spill out what comes out with out hardly any editing other that spell checking and rephrasing, I want to keep as true and direct as possible with my answers to identify the cracks and tricks of the mind more obviously.
Like I said my main intent is being as sincere and true as possible in the process.

Thank you I really feel the wheels are turning in the right direction.

action seems to act on thought

What is your opinion on watching videos and reading non dual material, sometimes I read or watch some material from Sailor Bob Adamson, Daryl Bailey, Rupert Spira amongst others.

If you do think some experiences are better than others, every time a "bad" experience happens it's very likely you will feel like something is wrong with you, missing, incomplete. You will probably believe that you have to do something to reach a better state and be a better person. This pull to change what is going on at the moment is one of the main reason people keep seeking for something other than this.

Focus in what is here now for a few minutes, as best as you can.

Do you think this moment could be different than it is?

Is this moment made of a collection of separate different experiences - is it possible to find separation, borders, between what is being experienced - or is this moment seamless, complete?

Would you say the thinking is making things happen or that the thinking is more like an "after the fact" commentary about what is going on?

It's true, just yesterday I observed this in so many ways, the fact of feeling unsatisfied with what I'm currently handed and wishing it were otherwise, from circumstances, my work, my personal appearance or health, imagining things should be unraveling in other ways than the way they are, brings a sadness and discontent. I see how I hold on to this idea that an awakening will make life easier and more content, peaceful, quite, unaffected by the difficulties of life, other than just seeing experiences for experiences with out classification. I start to see it in moments that life is just happening despite despite what I might think about it.

This moment is complete in and of itself it doesn't require anything to be added or subtracted, the mind at times wishes otherwise or imposes resistance to what is. This moment could not be different because then, it would be, and that would be what the moment is and no different so the argument almost seems ludicrous.

Interesting, I had always thought of it as a succession of events very closely knitted that you couldn't tell the difference, kind of like a film, it's many frames rapidly being projected so it seems like one continuous movement and that the mental capacity to process information moves way faster than a projector and so creates the impression of fluidity. But what I think your saying is, I'm sleeping, next event, I'm waking up, next event, I'm brushing my teeth, next event, I'm drinking water and so on so life seems to be one experience after another. But in reality if we are not thinking or defining our experiences life is like a flowing stream you can't really differentiate in essence between one event and another it's all just water flowing. I notice though that when someone is having what is considered a good experience they don't want it to be over almost dread the moment coming to an end and vice versa when someone is having a bad experience they want to be done with it waiting for the next defining experience to a better state, so it seems we are running from one defining state to another, but something tells me this isn't so, that life is an organic continuous movement that the mind classifies and dissects.

something tells me this isn't so, that life is an organic continuous movement that the mind classifies and dissects.

thought has no place really in the play of life

how about will, free will, will power and so on if life is just unfolding then why try to shape it? Why so many paths for self improvement in so many areas of humanness, if it is that simple, and if it is so simple then why do I still feel like I need to advance?

What are your thoughts around awakening? What do you think awakening is? And what do you think can awake?
Are you unawake now to what is going on?

What are your thoughts around awakening?

What do you think awakening is?

Are you unawake now to what is going on?

Look at what is happening now. See what is here. Do you see a succession of experiences? Do you see past experiences or future experiences? Or do you see life going on now?

Life is an organic continuous movement that the mind classifies and dissects.
Yes. If you look, is this something you can see? Or are you speculating?

Isn't thought also life?

how is this "I" going to awaken to itself when it's trying to awaken from itself and realize "I" don't exist it's like encouraging it's own annihilation therefore actually it's reinforcing the search

• "do this little experiment that won't even take much of your time. All you need is 20 minutes, a pen & paper.
  
  First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.
  
  Like this-
  I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..
  
  Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?
  
  Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
  Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.
  
  Again watch what is happening in the body.
  
  Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?"

Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?"

Typing, sniffing, listening to talk, clearing throat, typing, grabbing cup, tapping fingers, thinking, typing, looking away, sighing, listening to ringing, listening to beeping in the distance, getting concerned, breathing heavy, correcting, typing, sitting, resting head on hand, scratching head, taking deep breath, rubbing face and eyes, reading, scratching behind ear

At the time being can you see the separate self is an illusion every time you look?

Does it feel like something is missing?

Do you have doubts?

Did anything change since we started this conversation?