Guidance requested

[MichaelD]

Been,

Time to change your name to Been and Gone?!

Where does the object end and the self begin?
There's no point at which it stops and I begin.

Is anything carrying out an 'act of perception?
At first, with various objects, there was the thought "it's over there, and I'm over here". But in looking at it, there's just looking.

Looking at the object can any self be found at all, anywhere?
There is the thought "I am looking from over here", but then it's not there, and there's just looking. And then the thought comes back, then goes away, and so on. And now it's stopped coming back. There's no perception of a self.

In fact is anything 'looking' at all or is looking just occurring?
How odd. There's nothing looking. There's the thought "there's nothing looking", then the thought "I'm looking" in response, but sort of feeble. Then back and forth they go. And really, nothing is looking. It's just happening. Everything is just happening.

Fantastic looking!! In one exercise you seem to have seen that no separate self is present.

There was then a gap of a few days and I asked you how you are and you went on to say:

Life has been more enjoyable and less stressful the past few days. The moments of crankiness are pretty easily traced to a temporary belief in some random thought or other, in retrospect. It is what it is.

Great that life is easier and less stressful and well noticed for spotting that reactions are a result of a belief / thought. You may also notice that once this is spotted the reaction will tend to fall away more swiftly than previously.

Looks like you have seen why!!

There's nothing to believe them. It comes down to that. Ha! That's hilarious. It really is.

Welcome to the Cosmic Joke. No Gate and no one to pass through it!

So lets consolidate this by focussing on hearing and then we will go on to explore how the sense of self arises.

When calm tune into sounds around you.

Is there any boundary between 'you' and the sound?

Any separation?

Any act of listening by any 'self' entity at all?

Happy looking Been.

Michael

[Ybeen]

Hi Michael,

:-)

Is there any boundary between 'you' and the sound?

No, there is no boundary. There is a direction, when focusing on a particular sound. The same thought as before of "that's over there" and others like "that sound is closer than this one" or "that is louder than this".

Any separation?

Separation from what? It's sound being heard.

Any act of listening by any 'self' entity at all?

There's hearing. Looking at the question, there's the thought "I'm listening" stuck on repeat, then "I'm" over and over again until it loses any meaning. Then it's the thought of the sound of "I'm". There's nothing listening; hearing is happening.

Above, I said "focusing on a particular sound". It's more like when one sound is heard more than another, but not. The farther away from the ears, the louder the sound has to be to be heard more than the closer softer sound. But there are some pervasive sounds with no location. And new sounds are momentarily heard more than pervasive ones. And then, they all become some other sound, together.

Warmly,

Been

[MichaelD]

Hello Been,

Is there any boundary between 'you' and the sound?
No, there is no boundary.

(No) you are still on stellar form I see!

Any separation?
Separation from what? It's sound being heard.

Worthy of a Zen Master / Mistress

Any act of listening by any 'self' entity at all?
There's hearing. Looking at the question, there's the thought "I'm listening" stuck on repeat, then "I'm" over and over again until it loses any meaning. Then it's the thought of the sound of "I'm". There's nothing listening; hearing is happening.

"There's nothing listening; hearing is happening" couldn't be expressed in a clearer way.

Let's move on with a question and an investigation into thought:

Can you state with a big, fat, unequivocable YES that you have seen that there is no separate self?

In relation to thought see how you get on with these;

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can you choose what to think?
Can you choose what not to think?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

Have fun Been!

Warmly,

Michael

[Ybeen]

Hello Michael,

Can you state with a big, fat, unequivocable YES that you have seen that there is no separate self?

It's been seen that there is no separate self, yes.

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

No.

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

No.

Can you choose what to think?

No.

Can you choose what not to think?

No!

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

No. Thoughts just happen.

Warmly,

Been

[MichaelD]

Hi Been,

Great post!

Can you state with a big, fat, unequivocable YES that you have seen that there is no separate self?
It's been seen that there is no separate self, yes.

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
No.

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
No.

Can you choose what to think?
No.

Can you choose what not to think?
No!

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?
No. Thoughts just happen.

Boomting! is the response that comes to mind....

I an going to ask you a few more questions about thoughts but they are different as they focus the "I" type thoughts. How the fictitious self is created and how the narrative is maintained.

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?

Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?

Over to you Been!

Warmly,

Michael

[Ybeen]

Hello Michael,

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

No.

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?

No.

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?

No, there is no thinker to be found.

Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Yes.

Do you think thoughts or do thoughts think you?

Thoughts happen. "I" is part of thoughts happening.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?

No.

Warmly,

Been

[MichaelD]

Hi Been,

Given how certain you are in your answers I am going to ask you a set of questions. Some you have answered already but please answer them again. If any difficulties arise (you find a question difficult to answer) we will just work with whatever the sticking point is.

You can answer them how you like; in couples, half of them, the full set - just whatever works for you :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully, as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

If you answer please take your time and answer as fully as possible, that really helps.

Enjoy!

Michael

[Ybeen]

Hello Michael,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. No.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully, as you see it now.

The illusion is that there is an inherent self directing experience when the reality is that experience is simply happening. It started with language, the name I was called by, and then hearing, saying, and thinking "I", "me", "you", "her", "it". Every time I heard myself referred to as something (insert adjective), especially those adjectives that were repeated, that became part of "I". Repetitive thoughts became part of "I". Memories in the form of thoughts became part of "I". "I" is the result of thoughts. Before "I", there was only experiencing. Really, there is still only experiencing, with the illusion that experiencing happens through the filter of "I".

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels calm, mostly. There is less suffering, as there is nothing to believe the story of "I" that thoughts tell. Nothing to believe hurt, anger, sorrow, guilt, frustration or resentment.

Before this dialogue started, I had stumbled on this site looking for answers to "why"s. Upon being redirected, reading, and engaging in the dialogue, there grew a more present awareness of experience for what it is.

At first, I felt that I needed approval. Worried about a sign off and what "warmly" meant. After first seeing, it felt too easy. Like it couldn't really be. Thoughts. When your one reply was lost to the ether, there was the thought that seeing had not happened. Then it became clear that it could and was. No approval was needed. Additional pointers helped clarify.

It's a bit odd being in the world with people. Like watching a play.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Thinking is a sensation akin to looking or feeling or hearing. There is no separate self experiencing those sensations; there is no separate self thinking. Still a thought. Experiencing thought as experiencing sight or sound or any other sense.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, intention, free will, choice, and control are part of the illusion of "I". Things simply happen, including thoughts. They just are. Some thoughts are that "I" make things happen. Those thoughts happen. I'm not responsible for anything. "I" never was.

Scratching an ear. That happens. I'm not controlling or directing the shoulder, arm, elbow, wrist, or fingers. They just move together to scratch the ear, because of a sensation felt on the skin of the ear. Not because I made the decision to scratch the ear, or intended to, or chose to.

Closing eyes. The eyelids shut because of a sensation felt by the eyes or surrounding muscles. Sometimes they stay shut for awhile. I don't decide or choose when or how long. They just do sometimes

6) Anything to add?

Everything is happening. Life is everything happening. It just is.

Warmly,

Been

[MichaelD]

Well Been what a joy you are!

That seems very clear.

We didn't cover choice, decision and control etc but you answer with clear penetrating insight.

Is there anything you want to investigate or look at further, any doubts?

You say;

It's a bit odd being in the world with people. Like watching a play

Yes, it is a bit like watching characters or puppets. Is that upsetting for you? or funny?

Can you describe in a bit more detail how your life is changing please. How is it affecting your role/s at work, relationshiops with family members and friends etc. Are you happier, do you feel free, or still and silent etc etc.

Warmly (just friendlier than Kind regards - so nothing to worry about!)

Michael

[Ybeen]

Yes, it is a bit like watching characters or puppets. Is that upsetting for you? or funny?

Neither. Kind of nonplussed. Especially if it's an interaction, and I'm watching but not reacting as expected. It appears to frustrate other characters, the not playing along.

Can you describe in a bit more detail how your life is changing please. How is it affecting your role/s at work, relationshiops with family members and friends etc. Are you happier, do you feel free, or still and silent etc etc.

I was ready to quit the job. Now, the things that were bothering me don't really seem to matter. They're just that way. Staying or going could happen. Whatever happens is what happens, and that's okay.

There is no more anxiety about what people are thinking, because thoughts... There is watching and listening, which provides insight to characters and their stories. Life is easier to navigate. Interactions are mostly effortless. It could be easier for others. Watching and listening as expression happens seems to help them. Like a body releasing emotional waste.

There's a flow. A drifting with what is happening. It can't be changed; it just is. Like floating on the back in water. Not still or silent, but it can seem that way. It could be called happy.

Warmly,

Been

[MichaelD]

Hello Been,

Mmm What can one say? The dance of the characters including watching one's own. I sometimes feel it is just like putting on a garment when entering a role and then just letting it drop when it is not required. Especially noticeable around work.

If you have no more concerns or questions, nothing left, then what happens now is that I show our conversation to Ilona or another senior guide. They will then see if there is any area they wish me to explore with you more fully. If not, or when that process is concluded, you will be invited to a couple of closed Fb groups (Unleashed and Aftercare 17) where you can meet other awakened folk and explore your experience together.

I will post our dialogue now but it could be a few days before admins or myself contact you. If so don't worry and as you said in your own words no external ratification or approval is necessary. When you have awakened you know it has occurred.

:-)

You have really been so lovely and easy to work with - so a big thankyou for that. Will be in touch soon.

With love,

Michael

[Ybeen]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for everything!

Love,

Been

[MichaelD]

Been,

Has there been a glitch in the Matrix?

I keep looking out for you in Aftercare 2017 and Unleashed but can't see you.

Look out for email invites or PMs from admin.

Hope things are still well for you.

Oh also, because you are so astonishingly clear I mentioned to Ilona that you would make an excellent guide. She sees that too. It would only be if you are drawn to do it (obviously!) but firstly you need to settle into your new perspective. We are now full circle as it is Unleashed and Aftercare that help folk do that.

Hope this helps,

With love,

Michael.

[Ybeen]

Hi Michael,

Thanks! I didn't realize there was a PM sitting there, or a new forum... There was an odd day recently, but all is well.

Love,

Been