Ending the constant searching

[Trinidiana]

Vince sorry that there were some typos in my last email. Where I said 'A part of my conditioning want to say that one should try to be the best version of oneself , but this all more selling isn’t it, a part of my conditioning believes that there should be going towards a lining up with something bigger and more divine and wiser than our small selves to find our true purpose on earth etc and fulfill it, to be kinder and gentler with ourselves and the planet and help leave it a little better than when we came. '

Should read 'A part of my conditioning wants to say that one should try to be the best version of oneself , but this is all just more storytelling isn’t it, a part of my conditioning believes that there should be going towards a lining up with something bigger and more divine and wiser than our small selves to find our true purpose on earth etc and fulfill it, to be kinder and gentler with ourselves and the planet and help leave it a little better than when we came.

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince, with the time difference I am probably not going to get this to you before you sleep, because this reply has taken me quite a long time.

Have you considered that right and wrong are cult(urally) imposed concepts ?

Yes , I have considered it a lot , right and wrong ARE FOR SURE culturally imposed concepts. They definitely are.
I like how you wrote it like cult (urally). So much of what culture believes in is like a cult, brainwashing, and propaganda mould these beliefs of right and wrong and we worship them. Would you say though that there is anything at all fundamentally right or wrong , like ANYTHING at all? In your opinion. Sorry, I shouldn’t be asking you questions should I? Or is that ok with you that I sometimes do if it helps me clear things up?

Ok, before I read further you asked me to give you a rant on Truth so here goes........

Well, the same way you asked me to consider that right and wrong are no doubt culturally imposed concepts, for the most part I would say so is 'truth '. Truth in terms of what one believes to be right and wrong and such. What we feel is 'our' truth, like what I was telling you was 'my' truth in thinking there is some order and goodness to Totality and such. Truth used in this way is simply another belief, another story, no different. And most of our so called human truths are definitely just more stories. I am not sure if some stories are better than others lol but I guess we can say some stories, or beliefs , or truths lead to consequences that may be more 'gentler' than others, for ourselves and others. More life affirming somehow , less destructive . Though these two words are stories too. So there's this way of looking at truth.

However, I think 'truth' is also just what it is in its most obvious sense, not a "lie", meaning what just IS. What’s ACTUALLY happening at any moment. Thats the truth .What I mean by this is that in daily life, there are so so many ways that we are not in truth to ourselves and others, we lie all the time, whether it be small lies and exaggerations or big lies and hurts, or denials, not showing our true self for fear of what others think, the list goes on and on. The constant acting out, and fortification of psychological armour. Masks and defenses we put on, roles we play, none of it is truth at all. So in my opinion, this definition of truth , which is 'reality', (reality right be the better word), and not my previous one which was really 'values' or 'beliefs' is the more correct definition. Truth just meaning what is, this is the one I want to emphasize as my rant for you on truth , it's the one I think is the TRUTH, pun intended lol!! True means "real". Before concepts etc. , stripped down and naked. Ok, hope this rant made sense to you.

Moving on to the fact we know so little......

I once saw a guy with a T-shirt that said 'I’ don’t know' , thought it very wise. indeed lol. Yes .... all of what we think we know are in fact beliefs, when I wrote you earlier Email I had wanted to add that there is actually NOTHING I can know for sure, nothing at all! And thats the truth ha ha!


Back to speaking of beliefs, I know everything i told you on my 'meaning of life ' rant is a story and yet somehow I feel that is not that I 'should' believe in as you say. but more that it’s a gut feeling that feels right, like intuition, not the kind of belief one would have from fear say, like in organized religion for example. But you’re right, it’s still a story I choose to believe. But then again do I choose it? Do you believe in intuition? is it true? Or just another story and belief?

Beliefs have consequences

Yes i realise that beliefs have consequences. A recent example would be the person yesterday who ran a truck through a bike lane and killed others in New York. This ties in to truth and beliefs and cultural conditioning of right and wrong. He 'believes ' his 'truth' is that Allah would want him to kill infidels and his actions are 'right' and he will get into heaven (maybe 50 virgins too if he really pleased Allah ) all as a consequence of his actions. He 'believes' his story of truth and consequences. In turn , his beliefs and conditionings resulted in a lot of consequences, in that people died, and lives have forever been affected. So we get back to our first point on right or wrong depending on cultural conditioning, to us here in the West we feel what he did was wrong, to others like ISIS, it was 'right'. Its really neither right nor wrong when looked at this way is it Vince?
But..... That’s why I asked you earlier though if there is anything YOU think is fundamentally wrong? Was this act a product of wrong thinking, (I believe it was ) , is there such a thing as right and wrong thinking? Was this an 'apparent self ' causing awful consequences. And could he have chosen to do it differently? Probably not ....Not unless his conditioning was totally different .

On a side note, Just so you know I am literally writing this to you alongside your message in LU, in real time lol, reading and writing on the fly, with my screens split on iPad so I write in my notes app as I read your email and comment before I continue to read on because I think thats the best way and I don’t jump ahead. Of course if you gave me an exercise to do that would be different, but for this discussion I feel it best, sooooo.... moving along... (well i am not getting any work done this morning Vince, lol, was that my choice to take all morning to write to you, am I procrastinating, can i even control this) Wow...


OK, I just read your point when you said in reply to my take on the flow of life etc., that it was another 'good' story. You’re right, I know it’s a story, I really do. Then, when I read that you said that I exhibit characteristics of wisdom, I got a couple of tears in my eyes. A strange reaction for me . But it touched me deeply and immediately. In a pure way, not a proud of myself way lol.

And now you say there is one thing that tells you that I am not liberated and not awake and can I guess what that one thing is?

....... Well in all likelihood I can’t guess correctly because it probably is what i am blind to and is what’s holding me back I suspect , but .....if I had to say something , right now, (and I do promise to always take a try to answer every one of your questions which I know you ask with total purpose and to guide me and not frivolously at all), it’s that the thing that tells you I am not awake is because YOU can see or tell that I believe somehow I am not free, or have something to figure out, or believe with this little self that I have to get over this imaginary self? That the seeking is perpetuating the search? That really there is no quest. That the fact I am trying to figure it all out means I believe in separation and haven’t seen through the imaginary self?..... that I am trapped ....

I don’t know. That’s my guess for now before I continue.

The best story that i have been able to come up with says that all of the wrong in the world can be equated to a healing crisis in the human organism.
For example when we pick up a stomach bug, in order to eliminate the body will get temperature and vomiting and diarrhea......

Ha ha, well Vince, I think we may be kindred spirits you know, because your 'story' you describe here pretty much could sum up mine too almost verbatim. I resonate deeply with what you say. And you are right too in that it’s is not all getting worse, statistically speaking. But times are intense indeed. The other day, I listened to a very recent interview with Eckhart Tolle by Oprah , (that Oprah lady is pretty wise lol ), and she was asking Eckhart about if he still believes that there is a waking up of humans that he mentioned in his book the New Earth in light of the fact that it certainly doesn't seem so with all that is going on now, the craziness and polarization and hatred etc. , anyway, he kind of said basically what you just said.... and that sometimes things do get worse before they get better and again it’s the ego and belief in self and being asleep that is causing all the ills.

Then you comment on the part I wrote from Rupert and say that even though you superficially agree...

I do however see the sense of separation and the delusion of a separate self as symptoms rather than the root cause.

I have to think more deeply on this line, I cannot completely understand it yet. I think you are stepping back deeper here, asking why do we have this belief in a separate self which is an illusion or delusion, what’s the cause of that ?

Hee hee , by the way, I like your little soapbox. But seriously, I am earnestly trying to get what you are saying here.

I am paraphrasing and you can tell me if I am on track.

You are saying, I think , that by not realizing that all these concepts (which come from our thoughts ) are just stories , we conclude that there is a separate self. So the end result of these concepts is the illusion and belief in a separate self (which really is a symptom which then leads to consequences). And prior to this belief we simply don’t recognize that everything is thought and concepts and then erroneously believe in this illusionary self , we are asleep ...

You’re saying, I think, that the 'apparent separation' isn’t the root cause. It’s the symptom that leads to the consequences. It’s an extra step so to speak. Eg, New York killer. Deep belief in separate self. Does what he thinks is right and there are terrible consequences but the self which did this was not the cause but the effect or symptom actually of the concepts and ideas and conditioning which led to this separate self belief. Is that what you were saying?

As a by the way, I am in complete agreement with you about the education system (and the medical system for that matter, we have so many systems backwards and messed up at this point in human development it seems ) . Oh I could go on and on a soapbox about this too lol, told you we were kindred spirits! Just as a small example, I almost have to laugh when I see how right now in the US, they are literally manipulating people with the whole patriotic idea and the kneeling and flag,(Donald manipulated them beautifully) it’s bizarre to see them all fall into the trap. Their allegiance pledge they make the children recite each day in school which my children just found weird. Ok I’m on a soapbox now, so better get off! You’re so right though , these taught ideas do have such an undeserved elevated status and it 'causes or conditions' so much damage. We completely ignore what is and try to mould the world in to what we think it should be with these ideas, and it’s all complete BS! Trying to control everything.

We might have to delve more into cause and effect being illusions, you didn’t ask me a direct question on this and since this is getting very long, i will not comment.

But I think i am getting where you are coming from that what these consequences and causes are are just really conditions that line up. Everything is connected somehow, the whole butterfly on your side of the world could cause a hurricane here analogy.

Literally forever. i could go back to if one of my ancestors was sterile, that i wouldn't even be here.

OMG, that’s the line of the day. I want to tweet this ha ha because I wish one of Donald trumps ancestors were sterile .... This made me laugh so much but it’s so damn true. You are right. (And I know, another story could be that Trump is part of the whole diarrhea healing thing of the human organism in a perverse way )
It is not a long shot to say that if any one condition hadn’t happened in the world and was different, that everything , EVERYTHING would be different. Wow, really mind boggling when you take it all in isn’t it? And your story with your laptop and all those conditions remind me of mine with my Chicago trip story and my iPhone story (which by the way i had to pay yesterday 130 to fix aarrgh). This condition of my fall in Chicago causing this store in Lake Mary Florida to get a sale, crazy right? and we could go on and on ad infinitum couldn’t we?


Yes, as you say, it’s the beliefs in concepts that setup conditions which lead to the consequences. But now we have come full circle and are back to beliefs and truth and right and wrong and conditioning again, haven't we Vince? Beliefs are a product of our conditioning and culture that we think are 'right' and 'true' (empty concepts ) which then set up conditions which have consequences. But the beliefs are just really empty concepts , so that first domino that flips all the others in sequence isn't even real?! What a notion! And then in between somewhere along the domino chain, but really early on, the belief of a separate self comes in and becomes a domino. And also, following your line of reasoning and this domino analogy , different beliefs would lead to a different world then wouldn't they?

You also ask 'how can separation be anything more than another concept', I think we are going to have to explore more of this in another email because it requires more pondering and I am kind of brain fired at this point and won't do it justice But with all we have contemplated here in our emails, it seems clear that separation must indeed be just another though and concept, I think I am glimpsing that.



I thank you Vince from the bottom of my heart for the time you taking with me, and you come totally from the heart and with love, you have so brightened my day today with this. As I break for lunch, I hope you are having sweet dreams in the land down under.

I very much look forward to more of our discourse

Love
Diana

PS I have family in Sydney and Adelaide and there are a lot of people from Trinidad (Trinis we call them) in Perth What part of Australia are you in?

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

Would you say though that there is anything at all fundamentally right or wrong , like ANYTHING at all?

You know the answer to this.
Certainly, if i were talking to someone asleep (pretty well everyone that i talk to) i would use those words, but what they really point to are beliefs.

I shouldn’t be asking you questions should I? Or is that ok with you that I sometimes do if it helps me clear things up?

Yes, ask away.

Well, the same way you asked me to consider that right and wrong

If i don't respond to your answers, it is because you nailed it. No further discussion required. (and you are nailing it beautifully)

However, I think 'truth' is also just what it is in its most obvious sense, not a "lie", meaning what just IS. What’s ACTUALLY happening at any moment. Thats the truth

Hmm, to be pedantic, i think that you mean true. When we say truth, we are talking an (abstract) noun, so at a stretch it is ok (what you say) It is common parlance that turns an abstract noun into a concrete noun. That is that people imagine that truth is a thing. That it has existence.

there is one thing that tells you that I am not liberated and not awake

That one thing, is that you don't know that you are.
You've probably read too much spiritual rubbish. You might imagine that you need a 'wow' experience. Well they do happen to some, but it never lasts. (i have guided well over 50 people - i don't actually know how many... and seen when it happens like that. ..and how long it lasts)
For myself there were some temporary LSD type experiences, but all in all it was pretty ordinary. Now it is totally ordinary.
i just finished 3 weeks with 32 people travelling in close proximity, and not one would know that i was awake.

meaning what just IS.

Yes, to find ways of saying this is tricky. i like IS. ..but it doesn't fit in usual communication.
Now this is a great segue into another portal. A portal that i fell through to awakening. Maybe it can do it for you too...
As well as liking IS, i like THIS.
Both speak to WHAT IS. THIS.
THIS IS IT !!
If you could snapshot all of the conditions present in NOW, you would have THIS.
If you could recognize all of those conditions (or any of them), the time difference between them happening and the recognizing, means that they are already in the past.
How futile is it to want them to be different ?
How futile is it to approve of them ?
If i suggest that you consider the possibility of experiencing a welcoming surrender to them. An active acceptance of them, does the suggestion become a condition that added to all of the other current conditions, may increase the possibility that it will happen ?
Having an opinion (making a judgement) about THIS, wanting it to be different, is to invest in the lie. To deny truth.
To believe that something needs to be added for you to be awake is a belief, a story.
You see through every delusion that i have thrown at you. No guidance required. You already see the reality.
The fine tuning that is now required, is post awakening stuff. How to integrate this into your life-ing.
What new conditions does this awareness (aware-ing) bring to your life-ing.
If there is no control by that illusory self, then, is there anything that you can do - except watch ?

love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince, I am sorry I did not reply yesterday , it turned out to be a crazy day work wise and also some dramas with my parents lost cat, all great lessons in showing me that I have no control over any of life's events.

I will be responding in more detail, but wanted to get something off to you.


About my definition of truth, you are right to be pedantic, I did mean 'true' which really is not the same as truth as you describe it . Truth isn’t a thing I guess it’s a language thing.

the one thing is , that you don’t know you are awake

I don’t know Vince, not that I am expecting rainbows or unicorns , but one thing seems to be the case I have found in reading on LU is that people always seem to know when they have 'seen', how come that isn’t happening for me then? Or talk about the flow and a oneness, I don’t feel I get this properly. Another thing that I think EVERYONE feels is the dropping away of the desire to seek or search, and this has not happened for me either.

I understand that all experiences are just that, temporary and changing , just the scenery so to speak , as if you were in a driving car, passing by and always changing. Not really important, could be nice, could be boring, but just temporary.

About a year ago, I had a strong desire to so some sort of psychedelic just to give me a hint of what it means for the self to drop away temporarily but right now that desire has gone for the most part.

I like how you talk about the portal for you. Do you think it would be helpful to reread your blog on your awakening? Of course, I do recognize that it’s different for everyone.

THIS, I have heard that used by non dual teachers like tony parsons and Jeff foster.

I get it in a way. It speaks to what IS, THIS . NOW!

But then there’s a part of me that feels a little bit hopeless , like everything is too deterministic and it does not feel liberating.

f you could snapshot all of the conditions present in NOW, you would have THIS.
If you could recognize all of those conditions (or any of them), the time difference between them happening and the recognizing, means that they are already in the past.
How futile is it to want them to be different ?
How futile is it to approve of them ?

So then there really is never 'now', because as you say as soon as you recognize anything , it’s already past, it can never really be 'now', can it?

I know it is futile to want them to be different or to judge them , yet the mind constantly does that, I notice my mind , even when it knows it’s futile, does just that!
It invests in the lie and denies truth, even when I know and understand this to be so as you so beautifully explain it. And gets caught up with wanting things to be different or wanting to always jump to the next thing as silly as that sounds.

f i suggest that you consider the possibility of experiencing a welcoming surrender to them. An active acceptance of them, does the suggestion become a condition that added to all of the other current conditions, may increase the possibility that it will happen ?

The thing about surrender, though I know it’s the answer, you can’t 'try' to surrender, it’s impossible, the very trying is the opposite of surrendering. And I know that’s not what you exactly mean, that’s why you said consider the possibility. But I don’t know how to 'actively accept'...

What new conditions does this awareness (aware-ing) bring to your life-ing.
If there is no control by that illusory self, then, is there anything that you can do - except watch ?

Vince, I am going to write more on your last two questions today and express how they make me feel. It always seems to come back to 'feelings' with me .......

Love
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Diana, i was going to wait until you answered the last two questions before replying, but excitement happened.

It always seems to come back to 'feelings' with me .......

Experiencing, feeling... they are (always) transient. What do they mean ? (rhetorical question)
They mean whatever you believe that they mean. Well, no they don't. That would be to imbue meaning with something that isn't there. ...but what we are looking at in the 'real' world, is the consequences of that belief.
The consequences of belief are incredible. To the point where a suicide bomber willingly dies. ..and dies with joy (apparently)
Now, you have a belief that a feeling will tell you that you are liberated.
So, what do you think that being awake/liberated/'enlightened' actually is ?
You clearly see through the illusions that deluded people suffer from. Is being liberated from believing these, not being awake ? (another rq - rhetorical question) No it's not.
What being awake is, is experiencing the consequences of this. Well, actually the belief that this is liberation.
Does it happen instantly and completely (rq) No.
Is it consistent ? (rq) No.
Is it ever complete (rq) i have no idea. Certainly not here. (story = probably not)
There is a deconditioning process to happen.
How many years of conditioning needs to be undone ?
How does this happen ? (rq) Certainly not by exerting will power.
It happens when recognition occurs (repeatedly) that you have been caught up in an illusion. When you find yourself acting out a story.
Can you make the recognition happen? (rq) Of course not. ..but it can be conditioned to happen more frequently and sooner, until eventually it happens before getting sucked into a story happens.
So, to summarize;
Just seeing through the illusions is insufficient to be liberated.
It requires a belief that this is liberation.
One can't choose to believe.
The conditions for that belief to happen are present. They just need to be recognized.
One can't choose to recognize.
The conditions for that recognition to happen aren't complete (yet) but they are very, very close.
We will likely stumble on them soon. (my story)

love love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Excitement happened. I love your words VInce, ok I’m going to reply but there is not much to say and I don’t think I will be doing a good job though

Experiencing, feeling... they are (always) transient. What do they mean ?

Feelings like everything else in experience are transient, they come and go, they are easy to get caught up in and create a story, that’s for sure and they are very powerful when combined with thoughts.

They mean whatever you believe that they mean. Well, no they don't. That would be to imbue meaning with something that isn't there. ...but what we are looking at in the 'real' world, is the consequences of that belief.

You are saying here that the feelings are a story too. I agree and in the world, there are consequences based on the meaning we give feelings. It’s like how thoughts capture real raw direct experience and label them , feelings pop up and then we construe a story. The 'beliefs' in the feelings set up conditions.

The consequences of belief are incredible. To the point where a suicide bomber willingly dies. ..and dies with joy (apparently)

Yes before you even wrote this. That’s what I was thinking about, suicide bombers.

Now, you have a belief that a feeling will tell you that you are liberated.

When I wrote in my earlier post mentioning my feelings, I was speaking about my feelings in general, emotions really, like anxiety or feeling morose for no apparent reason, or whatever, but seeing as how you state this now, I guess I do have a belief that a feeling will tell me if I am liberated since I don’t 'feel' I am. And from reading, it seems most do know or have that feeling.

So, what do you think that being awake/liberated/'enlightened' actually is ?
You clearly see through the illusions that deluded people suffer from. Is being liberated from believing these, not being awake ? (another rq - rhetorical question) No it's not.
What being awake is, is experiencing the consequences of this. Well, actually the belief that this is liberation.

Vince I don’t understand what you are saying here exactly, you are saying that I see through illusions and delusions but haven’t gone to the next step of believing that I am liberated somehow. But all along, we have been saying that 'beliefs' are not even true or real, so I’m confused ...

Does it happen instantly and completely (rq) No.

Ok

Is it consistent ? (rq) No.

Ok, I know these are rhetorical questions but I am saying ok because I do understand them

Is it ever complete (rq) i have no idea. Certainly not here. (story = probably not)

I would think not, since everything is always in constant change and the mystery is so incredibly amazing, that it will never be complete, I wouldn’t expect any less lol

There is a deconditioning process to happen.
How many years of conditioning needs to be undone ?
How does this happen ? (rq) Certainly not by exerting will power.

Understood
You can’t force it to happen
And in some ways this whole inquiry that we get into , whether it be here in LU, or otherwise, is a 'trying' to see and decondition, to 'unlearn' actually. It seems paradoxical. But I think it’s a useful process.

It happens when recognition occurs (repeatedly) that you have been caught up in an illusion. When you find yourself acting out a story.

So it’s a repetitive recognition whenever you can of what you’re 'not' would that be it? I like to think of it something like this, since Reality is all there is and I am part of it, I am already it, these layers of conditioning and this life which is almost like a virtual reality are so enticing that I don’t see what is already there, all that can be done it seems is to 'catch' it, see the game and the forgetting and the illusions and stories all played out, when I see it I can realise it’s nots real, the story part that is . That’s why it’s a recognition that comes via the negative , via negativa, neti, neti, not this, not this..... Of course Vince , I would say most of the time I am caught up in the illusion or even if I’m not, I resist having to be in the illusion , what I mean is I resist the mundane aspects of regular life , or having to converse with others who are clearly in the illusion, or it feels draining to have to do so. I see beauty in the simplest things and want to remain there, so I resist what is.

Can you make the recognition happen? (rq) Of course not. ..but it can be conditioned to happen more frequently and sooner, until eventually it happens before getting sucked into a story happens.

yes , so I think that I was on the right track with my previous paragraph then.

So, to summarize;
Just seeing through the illusions is insufficient to be liberated.
It requires a belief that this is liberation.
One can't choose to believe.
The conditions for that belief to happen are present. They just need to be recognized.

How do we know that the conditions for that belief to happen are present, are you saying that they always are, on in my case they are, a little confused..

One can't choose to recognize.
The conditions for that recognition to happen aren't complete (yet) but they are very, very close.
We will likely stumble on them soon. (my story)

I have not recongnized the conditions necessary for me to believe that I am liberated . Ok whew


But then getting back to the two questions I didn’t answer from before.

quote]What new conditions does this awareness (aware-ing) bring to your life-ing.
If there is no control by that illusory self, then, is there anything that you can do - except watch ?[/quote]


You are speaking about conditions, but since I am not recognizing the conditions I can’t answer this ....I think .

No control, over anything, so just keep watching it all play out , I think that’s what you are saying. There’s nothing I can do. I know it may not be helpful to do this and I have heard some guides say it’s a problem, but isn’t what you are saying i need to do is to drop into Awareness with a capital A, or we could call it Whatever, but there’s a beingness, and ISness, a THISness, that from that vantage point seems to be able to watch and that’s all that can be done. And drop isnt the right word.

Whew, this was all very cryptic indeed.
Thanks Vince , for being you
Love
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

and I don’t think I will be doing a good job though

Here's an example of you being lost in a story. Either it's a story of self deprecation, or one of genuine remorse. Either way, it's bullshit. Stop it!

are very powerful when combined with thoughts.

If you are saying that it's what you believe that they mean, then yes, they are very powerful. (beliefs, that is)

The 'beliefs' in the feelings set up conditions.

Excellent seeing. (..and beautifully expressed)

And from reading, it seems most do know or have that feeling.

This is a bit tricky. If you know (believe) that you have seen through any of the many illusions, then a feeling will follow. The feeling confirms the belief. The belief begets feelings. Behavior changes. Conditions arise. A different story about meaning happens. New experiences occur.

ou are saying that I see through illusions and delusions but haven’t gone to the next step of believing that I am liberated

Yes.

But all along, we have been saying that 'beliefs' are not even true or real, so I’m confused ...

True, but the consequences are very real. (actually they are real - a real story, about unreal stuff)

whether it be here in LU, or otherwise, is a 'trying' to see and decondition, to 'unlearn' actually. It seems paradoxical. But I think it’s a useful process.

We just need to see enough to trigger us into a 'state' where the unlearning and deconditioning can start.

like to think of it something like this, since Reality is all there is and I am part of it,

Hmm, ok, this is another portal, but a bit deep to pursue at the moment. Just take it from me (for now) that you are ALL of it. All of IT.

this life which is almost like a virtual reality are so enticing that I don’t see what is already there,

This is a case of selective perception.
An anecdote; a couple of years ago, when i was mowing, a stick flew up from the mower and hit me in the eye. When at the hospital they shone a bright light into my eye to check the damage. With that light there, i could see all of the blood vessels in my eyeball. When i asked the doctor why i couldn't see them normally, he told me that yes, i could, but that soon after birth, my brain realized that i didn't need to see them so it just ignores them.
A bit like not hearing myself snoring, or not being able to smell my own bad breath when it happens. i also have tinnitus, but it is only there when i listen for it.
The reason that you don't (think that you) see what is always there, is because you are searching for something that isn't there.
Have you read that what you will eventually see is very ordinary ? (which is only a fraction of the story)

I resist having to be in the illusion , what I mean is I resist the mundane aspects of regular life , or having to converse with others who are clearly in the illusion, or it feels draining to have to do so. I see beauty in the simplest things and want to remain there, so I resist what is.

Ah, that will do it. What you resist, you empower.
You also state a paradox. You see beauty in the simplest things, but you label some of them mundane and the beauty is hidden.

having to converse with others who are clearly in the illusion,

We can have a conversation any time, but apart from that you will spend the rest of your life conversing with those that are yet to awaken. (there is beauty there too)

How do we know that the conditions for that belief to happen are present, are you saying that they always are, on in my case they are,

No, not always. Yes, in your case. i see them.

but isn’t what you are saying i need to do is to drop into Awareness with a capital A,

NO. Definitely not. There is no such thing as Awareness.
If conditions are right, then you will be aware, but there is nothing that you can DO.
Ask yourself this; If you could be fully cognizant of every condition that is present in your current experiencing, would your experiencing be different ?

love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince. am so enjoying our conversation, thanks again for giving me so much of your time

Yes ,I probably do get wrapped up in self deprecation, thank you for helping me to see the story!

This is a bit tricky. If you know (believe) that you have seen through any of the many illusions, then a feeling will follow. The feeling confirms the belief. The belief begets feelings. Behavior changes. Conditions arise. A different story about meaning happens. New experiences occur.

Do beliefs beget feelings only or do feelings also beget beliefs?

Your last paragraph here about beliefs and feeling and behavior and conditions and stories and meaning and experiences (whew) packs a hell of a punch in four sentences. It almost sounds like manifestation theories one reads about in 'how to change your reality by changing your thinking and beliefs' Wayne Dyer's opposite saying, 'I’ll see it when I believe it' . You’re kind of saying this to me aren’t you, that belief needs to happen (though there’s nothing to do and I can’t make it happen). And that belief that I have seen through the illusion will set up a whole different story with new experiences.

But all along, we have been saying that 'beliefs' are not even true or real, so I’m confused ...

True, but the consequences are very real. (actually they are real - a real story, about unreal stuff)

Trying to get this clear, so again it’s like the suicide bomber say, crazy beliefs , leading to feelings , leading to conditions with in this case horrible consequences. The consequences are real IN THIS LIFE , THIS SHARED 'REALITY', is that what you are saying? Also then this also applies to beliefs that may just have a consequence that is a story in your mind that never plays out externally but remains forever there, or, beliefs can lead to pleasant consequences etc., and on and on with countless scenarios , am I on the right track here VInce?

)

I like to think of it something like this, since Reality is all there is and I am part of it,)

Hmm, ok, this is another portal, but a bit deep to pursue at the moment. Just take it from me (for now) that you are ALL of it. All of IT.

I have seen this expressed like what you say here many times before, this knowing you are ALL OF IT, even going back to Christian mystics like Meister Eckhart saying he realised that he WAS God, I guess it’s because everything is one right? It’s not two. And that recognition happens. Part of Adyashanti's realization was seeing this 'you are all of it' and that everything was 'alive' with it and then going into the bathroom and checking the toilet to make sure it was too, IT WAS!

This is a case of selective perception. The reason that you don't (think that you) see what is always there, is because you are searching for something that isn't there.

Well put, I think we all selectively percept, we have to to navigate but we miss out on so much. But I hear you when you say that I am searching for something that isn’t there. So it’s pointless and useless?

Just on a quick side note, not that it’s really important but you mentioned tinnitus, sometimes I think I get this a little but always , when it’s quiet, like now as I wrote this, there such a 'noise' to the silence , what feels like inside me and outside me, a constant high pitched buzzing sound, almost like insects or something, but it’s ALWAYS there, whether I am fifty something stories up in a hotel in VEGAS, Or anywhere in the world. The sound of silence, it’s the only constant in my experience. Like right now writing this, it feels so loud, but shortly through selective perception I️ will ignore it.

have you read that what you will eventually see is ordinary?

Yes all the time, I understand it because the ordinary is really extraordinary or wonderFULL as you put it. My expectations are not coming to some constant blissed out experience, never actually had any mystical experiences, anyway. Yes . Ordinary.

)

I resist having to be in the illusion , what I mean is I resist the mundane aspects of regular life , or having to converse with others who are clearly in the illusion, or it feels draining to have to do so. I see beauty in the simplest things and want to remain there, so I resist what is. )

Ah, that will do it. What you resist, you empower.
You also state a paradox. You see beauty in the simplest things, but you label some of them mundane and the beauty is hidden.

Yes what you resist persists as they say, a powerful truth
And, I recognize the paradox in what I said, I have categorized some things like my accounting tasks, filing, emailing and the like and the disorganization and anxiety I feel toward them as mundane, bad choice of words, by mundane I mean necessary but annoying. Mundane tasks. Then the draining part for me being triggered by family stuff, parents, husband and children. That is what I resist. And what I mean with the beauty is in nature or my home, or art, or wildlife or my dog, or yes , also, all the things and people that also trigger me. It gets back to beliefs and feelings and conditions again and the meaning we place on all this. mundane, beautiful, all wrapped up together in this life . I get why people who see always end up saying it’s all a verb. lifeing, selfing, simply experiencing....

We can have a conversation any time, but apart from that you will spend the rest of your life conversing with those that are yet to awaken. (there is beauty there too)

Thank you because I enjoy conversing with you. Yes I know that that’s how it is and that’s ok and there is beauty in that too, much beauty. The other day I was in St. Augustine and saw a young homeless couple, with a kitten and a dog. The dog wore glasses, cute, sthe woman was pregnant. They were so 'messed' up for lack of a better word , druggies no doubt, could see it in her eyes, and bringing a life into theirs , and this world, it was sad, yet beauty was there too, a lot of beauty !

)

But isn’t what you are saying i need to do is to drop into Awareness with a capital A,)

NO. Definitely not. There is no such thing as Awareness.
If conditions are right, then you will be aware, but there is nothing that you can DO.
Ask yourself this; If you could be fully cognizant of every condition that is present in your current experiencing, would your experiencing be different ?

Thank you for clearing up Awareness for me. Is there anything you would use as something that refers to Totality or what IS, I am thinking maybe what you said before 'THIS' and it’s all it is, nothing, everything , beyond language for sure.

I see the trap where what can happen is one begins to identify with the so called 'real self' as Awareness , consciousness, observer or witness , but then that’s still dual and also just another 'story' to believe in. Like separating out somehow ego self and real self, or little i and big I, none of this can be the way it is, it’s just another story right?

So again, we are back to the conditions being right , nothing to be done but yet somehow seeming to try to set up conditions for seeing to happen. Paradox again ...

Your last question, if I could be fully cognizant of every condition present in my life in my current t experiencing, would my experiencing be different?

Off the cuff, I would say yes , because I would be fully aware and no selective perception, it would feel different I think,so different experiencing, but as I wrote this , I am not sure this is true, the conditions would be already past which means the experience would be the same experience resulting from these conditions but I would be present to them. Same experience but fully present to it, so in that sense different experiencing of the 'same' experience.

AAaaargh. That last question ties me up big time. i need help to understand this last question Vince because I feel I am missing what you are asking me here, not getting something important ...

Well,I Will leave it here for now this morning..
Happy Sunday which I guess for you is almost over

Love
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

Yes ,I probably do get wrapped up in self deprecation, thank you for helping me to see the story!

What was your instant reaction to me calling it bullshit and telling you to stop it ?

Do beliefs beget feelings only or do feelings also beget beliefs?

What do you think ?

And that belief that I have seen through the illusion will set up a whole different story with new experiences.

Yes, absolutely.

The consequences are real IN THIS LIFE , THIS SHARED 'REALITY', is that what you are saying?

i was referring to the consequential feelings and behaviors.

I guess it’s because everything is one right? It’s not two.

Hmm, this is a bit close to believing that a thing called Awareness has existence. The non-dualists talk of oneness like it is God.
The reality is much more mundane. Consider this;
A tree falls in the forest. Is there a sound if there is no-one there to hear it ?
No! Definitely not. No sound.
What there is, is vibrating air.
When that vibrating air hits someones ear drum, is there a sound ?
No. There is a movement of the eardrum. This movement moves some bones in the inner ear. Any sound yet ?
No. These bones moving generate nerve impulses, which travel to the brain.
Now we experience sound.
The same goes for all of the senses.
If you see a color, it happens in the brain. (vibrating light sending nerve impulses to the brain)
If you experience a tactile impression. The same.
All of your experiences happen in the brain.
It is a brain trick to project an objective world.
i exist as a story for you.
You imagine me.
These squiggles on your screen trigger stuff to happen in your brain.
i say mundane, but it's pretty bloody magical, don't you think ?
Wonderfull.
Now if you grok this, ponder this question;
Is there an experiencer experiencing the experienced ?

love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince,

It’s late, has been a long day, very tired and seems my son brought a cold back from England lol which is threatening to get me it appears. Lacking sleep and yet its nearly midnight and I find myself writing to you.

Today was Interviewing managers for our restaurant, down to four and all great, how to make a choice? Which got me to thinking about choices, is this whole decision predestined, looking at Facebook profiles and basically snooping on them leads to judgements, how will the thing play out? Is there any real control in any of this? Sorry, just digressing at this point ....

To your questions,

What was your instant reaction to me calling it bullshit and telling you to stop it ?

Feelings of self deprecation actually , that I️ am somehow not good enough, that whole story, or wanting to be better and get it right.

what do I think , when I️ asked you if feelings lead to beliefs as well as beliefs lead to feelings (paraphrasing )

Off the bat I️ would say yes , they’re like a loop, both can inform and reinforce one another.

Hmm, this is a bit close to believing that a thing called Awareness has existence. The non-dualists talk of oneness like it is God.
The reality is much more mundane

You used the word mundane that I️ used before in a previous post yet then qualified it as actually magical, I️ think this is so, the magical mundane, that sounds nice doesn’t it lol, I️ could open a cafe called 'The magical mundane cafe', or how about also its the absolute utter extraordinary ordinariness. EVERYDAY MIRACLES.

Which leads me to I️ think one of my stories is maybe pantheism, that awareness or God or totality or whatever IS , is everything, not that there is a 'thing' called AWARENESS, ( that implies separation) , but that there is existence that is all pervasive, not something which owns existence, just Existence, Again getting back to my ISNESS phrase or your THISNESS phrase.

So it really is mundane and bloody magical!

The reality is much more mundane. Consider this;
A tree falls in the forest. Is there a sound if there is no-one there to hear it ?
No! Definitely not. No sound.
What there is, is vibrating air.
When that vibrating air hits someones ear drum, is there a sound ?
No. There is a movement of the eardrum. This movement moves some bones in the inner ear. Any sound yet ?
No. These bones moving generate nerve impulses, which travel to the brain.
Now we experience sound.
The same goes for all of the senses.
If you see a color, it happens in the brain. (vibrating light sending nerve impulses to the brain)
If you experience a tactile impression. The same.
All of your experiences happen in the brain.
It is a brain trick to project an objective world.

You know, I️ have heard so many times this tree in forest falling thing you mention here and I️ thought it was like some zen koan type of thing like the sound of one hand clapping , but then, how you explained it VInce completely hit me in a totally different way that made total sense!

I️ never thought of the fact that if there was no living creature, or something with some sort of eardrum that 'hears' sound, that the answer would obviously be no! That was a kind of a mind bender for me.

But how you explained it makes sense, it’s still reality, that it falls, but only if the vibrating air hits an air drum which then causes all the brain stuff does something experience sound.

Everything to do with the senses, as a matter of direct experience must necessarily occur somehow only in the apparent projection of brain, of perception and somehow in this existence, or awareness, though 'IN' is not the right word at all.

The whole objective world seems like it must be a virtual reality of some sort, doesn’t it VInce, when you explain it like this?

i exist as a story for you.
You imagine me.
These squiggles on your screen trigger stuff to happen in your brain.
i say mundane, but it's pretty bloody magical, don't you think ?
Wonderfull.

So then I️ also exist as a story for you if I️ follow this line of reasoning.

But I️ don’t see how we are 'imagining ' each other, we are in each other’s brains somehow though, in this virtual reality. Is imagining the right word to use?

IT IS MAGICAL AS YOU SAY THOUGH. WONDERFULL

Is there an experiencer experiencing the experienced ?

Experienced, experiencing,experienced, the trinity of 'subject verb and object'.

There is no separate experienced, yet this is how it appears , this object subject and a sense of 'me-ness' does appear but it’s not really like that. It’s just all a whole lot of sensations and conditions without this separation of an experiencer

Ok, good night Vince
Love
Diana

PS VINCE, I️ have no idea why this is happening but it was yesterday too, my iPad is autocorrecting some of when I write I to I️ this weird exclamation and square, Why the heck it’s happening is the strangest thing.. is the Universe trying to tell me something, anyway, yesterday it started and it took me a while to change them all, I️ don’t have the energy tonight so please note that when you see the exclamation and square it means I.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

Today was Interviewing managers for our restaurant, down to four and all great, how to make a choice? Which got me to thinking about choices, is this whole decision predestined, looking at Facebook profiles and basically snooping on them leads to judgements, how will the thing play out? Is there any real control in any of this?

Ha, reminds me of a time when my wife and i had a computer shop, and looking for staff, we went to an agency that created a short list for us to interview. After much deliberation we chose the person we thought was perfect. The only problem was that they fell apart under the pressure. Within a couple of weeks we were going through it all again.
Give each a weeks trial, then ask the customers which one to hire. (or totally ignore this)

Sorry,

Ok, here's what to do.
Every time that you recognize that you have been expressing a story like it was real, celebrate that recognition.
No opinion (judgement) about being lost in the story. The whole point is the recognition. Celebrate it with a laugh.
If you can't laugh out loud, then imagine yourself laughing.
We need to set up the condition of realizing that we have been asleep. It's a skill.
For you, self deprecating language is a sure sign that you are expressing a story about unworthiness. (or something)
Do this consciently for 6 weeks and your life will change.

Feelings of self deprecation actually , that I️ am somehow not good enough, that whole story, or wanting to be better and get it right.

Yes, implicit in this is an opinion that it should be different. It is a resistance to THIS. Is there any acceptance of life's offering here ?

how about also its the absolute utter extraordinary ordinariness

Very good. ...but rather than tell yourself that this is so, i want to lead you to discovering that it is so, at least a couple of times each day.
For this to happen, we need to be relaxed. It doesn't happen when stress is present.
We need to be relaxed to be sufficiently observant to notice the details that most overlook.

but that there is existence that is all pervasive,

Scary stuff. On the edge of religion.
There is only sensory stimulation and stories about that. By the way, i include mind as a sense organ. We respond to thoughts in the same way as we do to sound or sight etc. (by making up stories about what they mean.)

The whole objective world seems like it must be a virtual reality of some sort,

The whole objective world and the inner world (everything and everybody) can only be experienced according to the conditions that are present. It is your interpretation that is everything. For you, nothing exists apart from that.
You might say that you are the creator of everything known to you.

So then I️ also exist as a story for you if I️ follow this line of reasoning.

Yes. (i like my story of you) ...but to be more accurate, from your perspective (mine is just a story to you), in your story of me, your story about my story is that you exist as a story for me too.

But I️ don’t see how we are 'imagining ' each other,

That's easy. You only have ideas about me. Certainly these squiggles on the screen, suggest that i am more than a story, but i could be a robot or an artificial intelligence program. Every characteristic that you imbue me with is your invention. Can you see this ?

It’s just all a whole lot of sensations and conditions without this separation of an experiencer

Yes. There is only experiencing.
To create an experiencer takes imagination.
The experienced as we (now) know is a brain projection.
If you take an object and look at it until thoughts slow enough, everything except the looking vanishes.

love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Evening Vince,

Taking you up on your idea, we are going to test the candidates out...

Ok, here's what to do.
Every time that you recognize that you have been expressing a story like it was real, celebrate that recognition.
No opinion (judgement) about being lost in the story. The whole point is the recognition. Celebrate it with a laugh.
If you can't laugh out loud, then imagine yourself laughing.
We need to set up the condition of realizing that we have been asleep. It's a skill.
For you, self deprecating language is a sure sign that you are expressing a story about unworthiness. (or something)
Do this consciently for 6 weeks and your life will change.

This is very deep, i see what you are getting at and I like your take on humor too, it might not be always possible but as you say I can imagine it, today we had some business news that was kind of shocking, my husband said, ok now don’t freak out, and then he told me, i was about to go into panic-freak out mode and then i stepped back and actually said well since there’s nothing at all we can do about it, we have absolutely no control, no sense getting upset. It worked... I felt calm and even some humor, there’s never a dull moment in this life for long...

So, OK. I️ keep realising when I’m asleep, and yes you’re right for me its constantly thinking I’m not on top of things, not liking certain things about myself, worrying, etc etc am going to try what you say, so you think its all a story, never resist or try to change ? Or try to improve? Are you saying It’s never constructive, I mean I know guilt, shame and the like are not but should there not be sometimes a momentum towards change?

You’re right it is implicit in this that it should be different and resistance to THIS, so notice, dont judge, accept and move on then? I resist the present moment a lot and also conditions that exist in my life and the world.


You talk about relaxation and stress , Well since. 2012 , and I am not going to get into it now, there has been a lot a lot of stress in my and my family’s life, thats for sure, i always try to have gratitude and know it could always be worse, i try to get time to relax and i agree that its the relaxed state where you see the utter splendidness of the mundane. I love the little details, so refreshing, i love beauty.
But...... My dad is losing his mind daily with alzheimers and it is so so hard fo him an my mum and all of us to see him go through this, its so painful, I’m not going to lie , its hard to find the beauty in this too....

but that there is existence that is all pervasive

Scary stuff. On the edge of religion.

No i didnt mean it like that Vince, its not on the edge of religion lol. It’s just a reverence I️ think for the absolute Intelligence - call it Divine or otherwise that IS everything. What’s wrong with all pervasive?

Ok, you include mind as a sense organ you say, and I do understand what you mean that the mind pumps out thoughts or no actually thoughts pop up and the mind ambushes them and makes up stories just like it ambushes the perceptions and labels. But I still dont see how realising that there is THIS and its everything and everywhere which i mean by pervasive is bordering on the religious.

The whole objective world seems like it must be a virtual reality of some sort,
The whole objective world and the inner world (everything and everybody) can only be experienced according to the conditions that are present. It is your interpretation that is everything. For you, nothing exists apart from that.
You might say that you are the creator of everything known to you.
So then I️ also exist as a story for you if I️ follow this line of reasoning.
Yes. (i like my story of you) ...but to be more accurate, from your perspective (mine is just a story to you), in your story of me, your story about my story is that you exist as a story for me too.
But I️ don’t see how we are 'imagining ' each other,
That's easy. You only have ideas about me. Certainly these squiggles on the screen, suggest that i am more than a story, but i could be a robot or an artificial intelligence program. Every characteristic that you imbue me with is your invention. Can you see this ?
It’s just all a whole lot of sensations and conditions without this separation of an experiencer
Yes. There is only experiencing.
To create an experiencer takes imagination.
The experienced as we (now) know is a brain projection.
If you take an object and look at it until thoughts slow enough, everything except the looking vanishes.

Ok, so the whole rest of your message quoted about was challenging to understand fully

So let me try bit by bit


I get what you mean by conditions that are present and then interpretation, everyone interprets differently. But there is what is , and yet us individuals just create illusions of beliefs and conditions and experiences etc. So in that way, its all imaginary, its all creation , but then this is not real is it? Confused. Shit seems to be happening, everyone’s watching a different movie but... whats real?

Trying to take this in, we are stories to each other, by in my story of you, my story about your story is that I exist as a story for you too? Huh??? Not getting this, at all

You say its easy to see that we are imagining each other. I have ideas about you, and you of me, right? Yes I could see that you could be a robot or AI program, as I could be too... I CAN see that characteristics that everyone may imagine anyone with , are ALL in the mind, all imagination , but what about collective ones, maybe ultimately Hitler wasnt ‘really’ bad or good, but imagination tells us that murdering millions of Jews is not a good invention....


There is only ‘ING ‘of some sort, seeing , hearing, imagining , perceiving, selfing, etc. Creating a subject does take imagination which is clear to see so then I would have to agree with all you wrote before by necessity .

The experienced now is a brain projection Yes its true. No ear drums no sound of tree falling in forest.

Finally, I cant seem to succeed in looking at an object and looking at it until thoughts slow and everything except the looking vanishes, I can intellectually understand this no problem, but can’t seem to experience it.Thoughts dont slow enough, distraction or numbing out takes over

Ok Vince
Sleep tight
Love
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Diana,

and then i stepped back and actually said well since there’s nothing at all we can do about it, we have absolutely no control, no sense getting upset. It worked... I felt calm and even some humor,

Very good. ..but "it" didn't work. (although it's fine to express it this way) Where did the thoughts come from to "step back" ? How was it possible that you didn't get triggered into the usual emotional reaction ?
Obviously a shift of some sort has happened. Why or where or how, can remain a mystery. We are just pleased that it has happened.

so you think its all a story, never resist or try to change ? Or try to improve? Are you saying It’s never constructive, I mean I know guilt, shame and the like are not but should there not be sometimes a momentum towards change?

Everything is constantly changing. No effort required. What happens when you recognize that you are expressing the content of a story ?

so notice, dont judge, accept and move on then?

No need to DO moving on. It happens automatically. If noticing occurs, nothing else is required.

I resist the present moment a lot

When it happens, if noticing happens, resistance evaporates. Celebrate the noticing. It's actually very funny to catch ourselves believing bullshit.

Well since. 2012 , ... there has been a lot a lot of stress in my and my family’s life

i bet that you have wanted things to be different to how they were/are ?

i always try to have gratitude and know it could always be worse,

It's pointless to try and convince yourself like this.

i try to get time to relax

Ha, i bet that you are not very good at this ?

My dad is losing his mind daily with alzheimer's

Ah yes. My mum died 2 years ago, after spending the last 5 or so years with alzheimer's. i would visit her 4 or 5 times a week and we would just sit and hold hands. She got very calm and i often had tears of love for her. These are my fondest memories of her. We were closer then than ever before. She wasn't trying to fulfill a mother role and i wasn't trying to please her. (tears now) It was beautiful.

its hard to find the beauty in this too....

Don't look for the beauty. Just use it to practice being fully present. Without opinion. It is a wonderfull opportunity.

It’s just a reverence I️ think for the absolute Intelligence - call it Divine or otherwise that IS everything. What’s wrong with all pervasive?

What's wrong is the implication that it's external to you.
Have that reverence for the wonder of you.
You are not part of anything. You are everything. There is nothing that is not you.
i say this from the perspective of Diana. Any other perspective is conjecture. It may or may not exist. You can't know, so leave it as a mystery.
What you can know is that the world begins and ends with your experiencing.
Don't worry if the statue of liberty actually exists. You know it as a story (unless you are directly experiencing it) and that's all it is. (for you)

But I still dont see how realising that there is THIS and its everything and everywhere which i mean by pervasive is bordering on the religious.

THIS is your current experiencing. The conditions that contribute to THIS are implied (story) Logic says that they are necessary, but that is more story.
To see THIS as something extrinsic to you is what is religious.

but then this is not real is it?

Forget "real" or unreal. Say 'actual'.
The only thing that is actual is current experiencing. It's irrelevant whether what triggers it is considered real or not.

but what about collective ones,

They are part of the mystery. Can't be explained. Yes, they happen. Wonder full. What about synchronicity ? Wonderfull. What about self healing ? Wonderfull. Mysteries abound. Wonderfull.

Finally, I cant seem to succeed in looking at an object and looking at it until thoughts slow and everything except the looking vanishes, I can intellectually understand this no problem, but can’t seem to experience it.Thoughts dont slow enough, distraction or numbing out takes over

Yes, it's a bit tricky to 'get'. Try it with a sound. Focus on a sound and see if you can get that there is only hearing.
Don't give up, but don't obsess either. Just try it for a single minute at a time. It will happen.

love

vince

[Trinidiana]

Hi Vince,

Not so good tonight, have a bit of a flu that i swear my son and his friend brought back from Italy , ha ha that’s a good story, and i had a terrible nights sleep, was up all night, that’s what really happened, not a story, but, i can create stories around it.

All in all a frustrating day too so excuse me if i am not at my best tonight.

Very good. ..but "it" didn't work. (although it's fine to express it this way) Where did the thoughts come from to "step back" ? How was it possible that you didn't get triggered into the usual emotional reaction ?

Yes , saying 'it' worked was not the right words. Thoughts came to 'step back' , I don’t know where the thoughts came from though, they just came . How was it possible, I don’t know, it does happen sometimes, i go into an observer mode and am able to step back and realize or watch, thoughts watching thoughts, i have had the ability though that’s not the right word, to step back and watch since I was a child , so sometimes it will limit the emotions felt and create some space between reaction.

Everything is constantly changing. No effort required. What happens when you recognize that you are expressing the content of a story ?

Change happens when it does without effort you are saying. Ok, today was a good example of recognizing the expressing of the content of a story, and it’s still happened, didn’t change ..

A lot of my stories are just emotions of frustration, i know this is going to sound so mundane, but it’s like frustration arises with my husband, frustrations arises that i couldn’t sleep, frustration arose when i spent three hours doing an email that turned out to be for nothing, and on and on, and being frustrated was so frustrating lol
Frustration arose because while trying to complete said Email. big son annoyed me and kept interrupting with ridiculous things, teenagery things, snapped at young son because he couldn’t find the bearded dragon's worms .. didn’t feel like cooking but did, so more frustration and it went on and on,and all the time and I’m thinking, ok this is a story i guess but frustration arises that’s true and ..... Vince, in this case I don’t see how i can laugh at it like you suggest,and to be honest a lot of my life is like this, just things occurring, and a lot of them are pretty frustrating, or i feel frustrated a lot of the time. I can laugh at stories, but these day to day occurrences just seem like annoyances and not stories, i am not getting caught up in stories, it’s just like frustration emotions and such, sorry for venting and so be it... and also on another note, News does also cause me anger and frustration and for the most part , I️ find it hard to laugh At, some things yes but most no. So this is what i have been noticing about my days, even two days ago when going to the airport to pick my son, i took two wrong turns, got every freaking traffic light and anger was arising, big time, how can i laugh at that story, it felt like actuality, it moves through fast and i am fine again but it was emotionally jarring,
.

No need to DO moving on. It happens automatically. If noticing occurs, nothing else is required.

I understand what you are saying here, however once again, a lot of frustration arises , I️ notice it like I️ mentioned in the above example of driving but it doesn’t happen automatically that it moves on, AT ALL, that sounds so negative as i write it but it’s the truth . Feels like something more is required.

When it happens, if noticing happens, resistance evaporates. Celebrate the noticing. It's actually very funny to catch ourselves believing bullshit.

So, this is a repeat of my last paragraph, no, to me VInce it doesn’t evaporate at all, I️ get more frustrated and resistance doesn’t evaporate , even when i notice it’s happening. I catch myself, sometimes it’s funny but a lot of the times, it doesn’t seem like part of a story, it’s just instant frustration and no evaporation happening

This is a very negative post tonight isnt it ?

I️ bet that you have wanted things to be different to how they were/are ?

hell yes i did, for sure i did , even when i knew it was pointless i did want things to be different ! I resisted even while knowing resistance was futile

Ha, i bet that you are not very good at this ? (Talking about relaxing here)

Sometimes I️'m not but i love quiet time and carve it out for myself. I can be quite the loner. I take time for relaxations by myself,meditation, Pilates, yoga, sometimes but not often enough, massage, i love to relax.

i love how you expressed being with your mum when she was sick , very moving , thank you for that. I know this is a story but i don’t care... Vince you have. A Very beautiful sweet spirit, and to me that’s the truth. I️ have read several of your dialogues with people and that why I️ was attracted because you come with a lot of heart and soul... thank you for being you.

Practicing being fully present is hard to do, but i do get there at times and see the opportunities around me, with my Dad it’s easy to be present cause i love him so, and it’s so easy with my dog lol , so but not so much with the children and husband and mother at times . I love them very very much but there are triggers, which cause me not to be present.

What's wrong is the implication that it's external to you.
Have that reverence for the wonder of you.
You are not part of anything. You are everything. There is nothing that is not you.
i say this from the perspective of Diana. Any other perspective is conjecture. It may or may not exist. You can't know, so leave it as a mystery.
What you can know is that the world begins and ends with your experiencing.
Don't worry if the statue of liberty actually exists. You know it as a story (unless you are directly experiencing it) and that's all it is. (for you)

Lovely, I do understand what you are saying here VInce, i am wrongly going about it like there is some awareness or presence that is external to me, that is beautiful but that i am not I don’t have enough reverence for the wonder of me , as you point out, I️ cannot experientially feel yet that i am everything. To a degree i can , i know everything exists for me through my experiencing , that everything else is a story, yet my biggest story then seems to be what i perceive as the 'external and more divine 'to me story. You explain it well now me feeling it extrinsic as part of the issue here .

They are part of the mystery. Can't be explained. Yes, they happen. Wonder full. What about synchronicity ? Wonderfull. What about self healing ? Wonderfull. Mysteries abound. Wonderfull.

I love and resonate with what you say here , mystery is wonderful and amazing and beautiful and serendipitous. So much mystery.

Yes, it's a bit tricky to 'get'. Try it with a sound. Focus on a sound and see if you can get that there is only hearing.
Don't give up, but don't obsess either. Just try it for a single minute at a time. It will happen.

I will keep practicing this VInce, i think for me it’s easier for sure with sound, especially because the sound of silence is always there . And when i concentrate on it, it’s just hearing, nothing more . Also with looking, i can get that while drawing especially , these days i am not, but art and drawing gets me into pure direct experience, it’s wonderful, no i mean wonder Full lol. I can look at an object in that mode and just see Line and shape and co,or and after a while it’s just pure looking and nothing else. Will promise to try tomorrow

Thanks for 'imagining ' me VInce and I’m sure happy that in my 'actual ' current experience YOU exist!
Love
Diana

[vinceschubert]

Good evening lovely,

A lot of my stories are just emotions of frustration

Oh frustration, i know you well. Before awakening, frustration as a pre-cursor to anger was the main theme in Vince's life. Always several times each day it would happen.
Now, when frustration arises (maybe a couple of times a week) it is usually seen and laughed at pretty quickly. It (almost) never reaches an anger state any more.
How does this happen ? (rq) The reminder arises, that what i would have been frustrated is already in the past. It's finished, so it's impossible to change it. Therefore the only fruitful response is to welcome it as a lesson. A learning experience.
That doesn't mean that it won't happen again, but it does increase the likelihood that it will happen less frequently and less intensely.

so excuse me if i am not at my best tonight.

No. (grin)

i have had the ability though that’s not the right word, to step back and watch since I was a child

Excellent. This is something that we can use.
Instead of it being a dissociation, we can simply become an interested witness. It will have the same effect of short circuiting the emotional 'suck in'.

today was a good example of recognizing the expressing of the content of a story, and it’s still happened, didn’t change ..

That is a bit surprising, but ok, it the recognition that it was happening happened, and it didn't evaporate, then there is another story in play here.
What is the finish to the sentence (be spontaneous) "I see that I am expressing the content of a story, but...."

Feels like something more is required.

Something less. (that extra story)

This is a very negative post tonight isnt it ?

No (although i know what you mean) It is a very useful post. It is a key to unlocking the resistance.

I take time for relaxations by myself,meditation, Pilates, yoga, sometimes but not often enough, massage, i love to relax.

i only have to think of the word "meditation" and a deep breath happens and a wave of relaxation travels down my body.
One long exhalation is all it takes to let go of hours of stress. One imagined laugh is all it takes to dissolve stress hormones and replace them with oxytocin. A 30 second hug has similar results.

I resisted even while knowing resistance was futile

What was the story in the unfinished sentence above ?

thank you for being you.

i have no control over it. Thank you for having such a lovely story of me.

but not so much with the children and husband and mother at times .

Watch out for self fulfilling prophesies with this. It is however, a great opportunity to investigate the process that gives rise to the frustration. See if you can 'step back' and observe the way it unfolds next time the opportunity arises.'

love

vince