Emptynest and Forgetmenot

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

Here is an exercise in investigating the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Hi, Kay!

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?

No. They seem to be completely different things. Looking at my image in the mirror is like looking at any other image.

Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

Yes. Only thoughts make a connection between sensations and the image of a body.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No. There is no connection. There is the sensation labeled as hand and there is something moving in the mirror, but no connection between them.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

The sensations continue to be perceived as without connection with the image. There are thoughts that strongly suggest the connection between sensation and image.

5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

No. Just thoughts suggest this.
No. Again, only thoughts suggest this.
That's right. There are just colours and shapes.

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Only thoughts suggest that the parts that can not be seen exist. The image simply does not suggest anything about it.

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

Just sensations. When thoughts about a body are ignored there are only colours, sounds, sensations, taste and touch, but no body.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Just sensations. The "body walking" exists only in thought.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No. Just sensations that the thought labels as "walking".

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Yes.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Only thoughts that label a particular colour pattern as "body."

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No. Just sensations labeled by the thought as "walking."

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There is only the image labeled "room," sensations without a particular location, and thoughts about "walking through the room." Putting aside the content of thought there is no "walking". Only images and sensations.

Hugs, Kay!

Marcelo.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

Lovely looking on the exercise with the body.

Let's move on and look at the idea of time as there is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Hi, Kay!

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

My experience is that there is only "now". There is no line of time.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No. Just memory gives me this feeling of "moment" giving way to the next.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No. Actual experience is just "now." As I said, only memory (thoughts) suggest otherwise.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It does not move. The "present moment" just is.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No. There is no beginning.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

It's always "now."

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

The "now" does not begin or end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

It becomes "past" only in memory (thoughts).

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Thoughts only.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There is no actual experience of time. Just thoughts about "time".

Hugs, Kay!

Marcelo.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

So, let's look at 'memory'

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Hi, Kay!

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Nothing. It’s just thought.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

None.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Other thoughts “say” that the event happened.

Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Just thoughts.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

None.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Other thoughts “say” it is plausible.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

There is no difference.

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Only thoughts “say” there is difference.

Hugs, Kay.

Marcelo.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

Okay...just to sum it all up, can you answer the following questions.

Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

How does it feel to see this?

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no you.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?


Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?

Is there any anything at all you would like to address?

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Hi, Kay.

Is there a you, at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?

No. There is no "me" anywhere. I seek for it and I find only thoughts, colors, sounds and sensations. I can not find anything that I can call "me."

Explain in detail what the self is and how it works.

Self is thought. The thought about the existence of a person. In other words, it is a set of beliefs, habits, and conditioning that have been accepted as real since I was a child. Acceptance of its existence creates a story (more thoughts) about a separate person and creates the belief of being an entity, an individual, acting, desiring and struggling in a "world."

How does it feel to see this?

In a sense, there is nothing special. But there is relief that there is no longer the struggle of "spiritual search" or "being someone in the world".

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no you.

I would say that it is like observing the unfolding of a movie to which one does not have high expectations. Also, that's like turning on the light and seeing that the monster under the bed is just a pillow.

Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?

No one chooses or decides anything. The experiencing unfolds only.

Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?

There is no individual, therefore, there is no one responsible for anything.

Is there a self in the body somewhere? Does it have a certain location, or feelings associated with it, or any other attributes?

There is no "self". Only thoughts, sounds, colors, smells and sensations around which the illusion of the self appears.

Is there a self that is inside the body, perceiving a world that is outside?

No. There's just “perceiving”, but no perceiver or perceived. There is nothing "in" or "outside."

Do you notice a difference now, to when you first started this exploration, and if so what are those differences?

I had expectations and doubts. But they don’t matter anymore.

Is there any anything at all you would like to address?

I don’t think so. That’s all right.


Hugs, Kay!

Marcelo.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Marcelo,

Well I think we are about ready to wrap up this exploration. Just a few more questions to make sure that every thing has been covered.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from experience.

Anything to add?

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Hi, Kay!

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

I had a feeling that something was still missing. A thought about "lack of something" all the time. But it has disappeared.
I don't know why. It just lost its grip.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When this neurotic thought about still missing something was gone, everything became settled and clear.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

In actual experience these are pointless questions. There are definitions of these words in any dictionary, but they no longer make sense.

What makes things happen?

Nothing.

How does it work?
Give examples from experience.

I taste a cup of coffee. See the colours that I labelled as “cup”. There is smell. Sounds. Thoughts about birds appear. Then an other thought. Events happen by their own.

Anything to add?

No, Kay. Thank you.

Marcelo.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

I am just now going to ask some other guides to have a look at our exploration to make sure I have covered everything with you and to ensure that my pointing was clear. This make take a couple of days, but I will contact you as soon as I know anything....so there may or may not be further questions for you.

It has been a pleasure walking this part of the journey with you...but you were already at the gate, so I was only a walking companion! :)

Love, Kay

[EmptyNest]

Thank you, Kay!

It was a pleasure to me too.

Hugs! :)

[forgetmenot]

Hey Marcelo,

Welcome to LU! There are no further questions. It has been a pleasure walking with you to the 'gate' and thank you for your patience.

What happens from here, is that you will receive a email notification of a private message (PM) from the forum inviting you to join LU Aftercare on Facebook and also a list of other resources available to you. Keep an eye out for that email.

If at any time you have further questions, or would like to give back by becoming a guide, please don't hesitate in contacting me.

Love, Kay