HappyOne's Thread

[HappyOne]

Hello Kay,

So smell is known, however, without thought, there would be no way of knowing that the smell is that of bread….right?
Smell is known, no matter what thought labels it as. Have you ever smelled something but you didn’t know what it was? Did it matter that there was no label and that what the smell was, was unknown? Did it stop the smell from appearing? Did not knowing what the smell was, stop you from knowing that you have smelled a smell – did it stop you from being aware of a smell? Or were you aware of the smell anyway, label or not?

Yes, I have had an AE where I was aware of a smell even though I could not label it. Smell is experienced prior to and even without thought. This is what I experience.

So what is actually appearing is NOT bread. It is only thought that overlays what is actually appearing with the label ‘bread’ and ensuing thoughts about ‘bread’.
What is actually appearing or being ‘experienced’ is smell + taste + sensation + colour + label/thoughts, but there is no actual experience of bread!

Does this make it clearer?

Yes, I see this clearly. I do see that this is all everything is made of, smell + taste + sensation + colour + label/thoughts. I would like to see how we can

try it another way.

, as you had mentioned. I see that this is foundational and I am interested in seeing it in different ways.

Thanks so much,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

Hey Sarah,

Smell is known, no matter what thought labels it as. Have you ever smelled something but you didn’t know what it was

Yes, I have had an AE where I was aware of a smell even though I could not label it. Smell is experienced prior to and even without thought. This is what I experience.

Great! So it is clear that smell is actual experience but what thought labels the smell as is not AE.

So what is actually appearing is NOT bread. It is only thought that overlays what is actually appearing with the label ‘bread’ and ensuing thoughts about ‘bread’.
What is actually appearing or being ‘experienced’ is smell + taste + sensation + colour + label/thoughts, but there is no actual experience of bread!

Yes, I see this clearly. I do see that this is all everything is made of, smell + taste + sensation + colour + label/thoughts. I would like to see how we can

Terrific.

Okay…let’s do this another way! :)

Can you sit in a quiet room, where noises outside can be heard. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.

Tell me only one sound that you heard when doing this?

Love, Kay

[HappyOne]

Hi Kay,

Can you sit in a quiet room, where noises outside can be heard. Close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes. Really hear them.
Tell me only one sound that you heard when doing this?

I did this, and I heard "honk honk".

Love,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

And what does thought label the 'honk honk' as?

K

[HappyOne]

A car.

[forgetmenot]

Great! Now can you repeat the exercise…

Tell me,
- How is it known there are cars?
- What is it that says there are cars?
- What is the actual experience of ‘hearing car honking’?

K

[HappyOne]

Good morning Kay,

- How is it known there are cars?

It is known that there are cars because this is what I have learned through past experience. Through being told, when I was very young, that a car makes the sound 'honk honk', through seeing people pressing the horn and hearing the resulting noise, and through doing this myself.

- What is it that says there are cars?

I am inside now, but was outside earlier and had experienced hearing and seeing cars outside. Even if I hadn't experienced seeing cars outside where I am now, I have learned through past experience that that sound 'honk' is a car honking it's horn.

- What is the actual experience of ‘hearing car honking’?

The actual experience of hearing a car honking is experiencing sound.

Thank you,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

Hello Sarah,

How is it known there are cars?

It is known that there are cars because this is what I have learned through past experience. Through being told, when I was very young, that a car makes the sound 'honk honk', through seeing people pressing the horn and hearing the resulting noise, and through doing this myself.

All of what you wrote are thoughts (story) ABOUT the sound ‘honkhonk’, including the idea that the sound comes from a car. Without that story and label, how is it known that there are cars?

When sitting in the quiet room listening for sound, was a ‘car’ in your direct experience?

There is no such thing as 'past experience' as that points to time and there is no time.

- What is it that says there are cars?

I am inside now, but was outside earlier and had experienced hearing and seeing cars outside. Even if I hadn't experienced seeing cars outside where I am now, I have learned through past experience that that sound 'honk' is a car honking it's horn.

Without the label ‘cars’ and without thoughts about what cars are, how is it known that they are cars? What is the actual/direct experience of ‘cars’.?

- What is the actual experience of ‘hearing car honking’?

The actual experience of hearing a car honking is experiencing sound.

Yes, exactly. Is there sound AND content of sound? What would the content of sound be?

Love, Kay
xx

[HappyOne]

Hello Kay,

All of what you wrote are thoughts (story) ABOUT the sound ‘honkhonk’, including the idea that the sound comes from a car. Without that story and label, how is it known that there are cars?

It isn't known that there are cars. The only thing known is sound. Once the sound becomes more than a sound, i.e. a thought of a car, it now carries a label and a story.

When sitting in the quiet room listening for sound, was a ‘car’ in your direct experience?

No, a car was not in my direct experience.

Without the label ‘cars’ and without thoughts about what cars are, how is it known that they are cars? What is the actual/direct experience of ‘cars’.

The only direct experience of a car would be sitting in a car, feeling the steering wheel (sensation), smelling the exhaust (smell), hearing the engine or horn (sound).

Yes, exactly. Is there sound AND content of sound? What would the content of sound be?

No, I don't think there is content of sound because that would mean separation. Isn't there just sound?

Lovingly,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

Hello Sarah,

So did this help make AE clearer at all? Just keep breaking down emotions and daily activities into AE for the next couple of days. But don’t get bogged down in it, I will be reminding you about AE throughout our exploration.

All of what you wrote are thoughts (story) ABOUT the sound ‘honkhonk’, including the idea that the sound comes from a car. Without that story and label, how is it known that there are cars?

It isn't known that there are cars. The only thing known is sound. Once the sound becomes more than a sound, i.e. a thought of a car, it now carries a label and a story.

Yes, exactly. So now instead of just the raw experience of sound, there is now a story about sound. It has a label, it has a description and what it is for…which encompass the story ABOUT sound.

Thoughts layer concepts over actual/direct experience. Face value of thoughts are actual experience, and some thoughts point to the actual, and some point to other thoughts, but the content of every single thought is just a story.

If thoughts/words knew anything, you could taste the word 'sweet', smell the word 'rose' and hear the word 'thunder'.

When sitting in the quiet room listening for sound, was a ‘car’ in your direct experience?

No, a car was not in my direct experience.

Great. Sound and thoughts about the sound were actual experience. If thoughts contained experience

Without the label ‘cars’ and without thoughts about what cars are, how is it known that they are cars? What is the actual/direct experience of ‘cars’.

The only direct experience of a car would be sitting in a car, feeling the steering wheel (sensation), smelling the exhaust (smell), hearing the engine or horn (sound).

There is no direct experience of a car. The direct experience is sensation, smell, sound, colour which thought labels as a ‘car’. When a car appears, the car itself in that moment is actual experience BUT not the actual experience of car but actual experience of colour which is labelled ‘car’.

Yes, exactly. Is there sound AND content of sound? What would the content of sound be?

No, I don't think there is content of sound because that would mean separation. Isn't there just sound?

Does the sound 'honkhonk' suggest in any way itself that it is a car horn?
Does the sound 'honkhonk' know anything about a car horn?
So does the sound itself have any content or is it thought that adds the content by labelling the sound as a car horn?


For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand.

Allow your eyes to close gently.

Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”

Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself. IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

Allow your eyes to open.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?


Love, Kay

[HappyOne]

Hello Kay,

Does the sound 'honkhonk' suggest in any way itself that it is a car horn?

No, the sound is just a sound like any other. It does not suggest anything. Thought is what suggests.

Does the sound 'honkhonk' know anything about a car horn?

No, just the same, the sound is just a sound. There is nothing about it that denotes anything.

So does the sound itself have any content or is it thought that adds the content by labelling the sound as a car horn?

Yes, it is thought that adds the content.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

I used my dishwasher for this exercise instead of a clock.
1. No, there is only sound.
2. Maybe once or twice at first I had the though that it was water and the dishwasher running, but I then dismissed it as 'just sound'.
3. Only at first, as I focussed, or simply heard, all that remained was sound.
4. No, it is simply sound.
5. No, in fact as I became aware of other sounds they all just seemed to blend as sound. This was much easier to do with my eyes closed.
6. No, I because it is just sound. No attachment to anything. Just the same with all of the other sounds which blend together to become one, it seems they just are. No beginning, no ending, no cause, they simply are.

Through this exercise I am beginning to see that the stories are falling away.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

My actual experience was that of hearing the noise which simply was. No, there was nothing attributed to it.

With heart,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

Hey Sarah,

Thank you for being so diligent with these exercises. It seems to me that you now can see what actual experience is and see the stories that thought overlays AE with.

So, let's take a look at thought!

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, close the eyes and just notice thoughts and do this several times throughout the day and then do the exercise throughout the day as per instructions below.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts. Could even be bits of music or even images.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay

[HappyOne]

Good morning Kay,

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Yes, this is a practice I have been doing for some time and love! I discovered it myself many years back and quickly realized that it is truly what experiencing Awakening must be like. Because I have been practicing, I have been able to elongate the time between thoughts enjoying the awakened state longer.

I realize that I am still a novice at all of this, but what I experience is time standing still. Maybe that isn't the best choice of words, but that is what it seems like. Even if there are things going on around me, my awareness is heightened and a 'realness' pervades almost pulling me into it. It is SO compelling, but I am always pulled back out of it into thought. Comparing this experience with the experience of being flooded by thoughts, i.e. busy mind, I would say that this space in between provides a fresh realness of life compared with every other moment which seems to be like a dream (foggy, busy and convoluted with thoughts).

With love,
Sarah

[forgetmenot]

Hello Sarah,

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Yes, this is a practice I have been doing for some time and love! I discovered it myself many years back and quickly realized that it is truly what experiencing Awakening must be like. Because I have been practicing, I have been able to elongate the time between thoughts enjoying the awakened state longer.

Wonderful how this exercise has brought to the forefront an expectation of what awakening must be like! And realising that there is no separate self is not the alleviation of thought. Thoughts are actual experience, in other words, they are just an appearance like sound, sensation, taste, smell and colour. Thoughts are phenomena that come and go and are no more important or powerful than that of a sound, taste, smell etc. It is only another appearing thought that says that thoughts are a problem and need to be gotten rid of. Being thoughtless is no different

The face value of thought is actual experience (AE) and actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience, otherwise you would be able to hear the thought ‘thunder’, taste the thought ‘sweet’ and smell the thought ‘perfume’.

So, for example, “I am not good enough" is the thought. The ensuing thoughts of what that means is the content.

I realize that I am still a novice at all of this, but what I experience is time standing still. Maybe that isn't the best choice of words, but that is what it seems like. Even if there are things going on around me, my awareness is heightened and a 'realness' pervades almost pulling me into it. It is SO compelling, but I am always pulled back out of it into thought.

There is no “I” to be “pulled back out of it into thought”, just as there is no control over what thoughts appear and when.

Comparing this experience with the experience of being flooded by thoughts, i.e. busy mind, I would say that this space in between provides a fresh realness of life compared with every other moment which seems to be like a dream (foggy, busy and convoluted with thoughts).

How is it known that there is a gap between thoughts…because a thought said so? Without thought, how would you know that a gap appeared?

The point of this exercise was to see how thoughts are just a flow of thoughts…one after another. Also, when LOOKING for the ‘self’…how you diligently looked for the gap is how to look for the ‘self’ and at pointers given.

Okay, let’s begin to explore the nature of thought.

Observe thought closely when you can throughout your day. Try to determine what your next thought is going to be before it appears. Can you do this?


Love, Kay

[HappyOne]

Hello Kay,

I apologise for the pause in getting back, but I will be able to reply later today or tomorrow.

Thank you for your understanding!

With gratitude,
Sarah