Liberation Unleashed

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

You are not replying. Is anything wrong? has an obstacle arisen?

The thread remains open so should you wish to return to inquiry at some point I will be happy to respond but there are a lot of folk waiting at the Gate so I shall take on new clients.

Warmly,

Michael

[Fernando79]

Hi, Michael:

So are you saying there is a separate self or not? Please be definite.

Pardon the silence - I've been observing daily and I can't come to a definitive answer as of today.

My experience so far is of two selfs, if you will. One is a vast and open self which is without form or existence, yet there is also a self that has form and comes from that open space. If I had to give a definitive answer it would be: no there is no separate self and yes there is a separate self.

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

Thank you.

Fascinating.

My experience so far is of two selfs, if you will. One is a vast and open self which is without form or existence.

Please tell me all about this 'self'.

yet there is also a self that has form and comes from that open space

Please tell me all about this self too please.

Warmly,

Michael

[Fernando79]

My experience so far is of two selfs, if you will. One is a vast and open self which is without form or existence.
Please tell me all about this 'self'.

This self feels like space or empty, without limits and silent. It feels quiet and unmoving. I guess I can call it a presence, but not quite. More like an empty shadow or ghost or nothing.

yet there is also a self that has form and comes from that open space
Please tell me all about this self too please.

This feels like my mind, my memories, the one dissecting experience and describing it and processing it.

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

Sorry I missed yesterday. I wanted to get back to you swiftly but in the end got back home too late to post.

Yes, there is a background 'nothing' that everything occurs in and that you are quite unusual in that you have noticed it.

yet there is also a self that has form and comes from that open space
Please tell me all about this self too please.
This feels like my mind, my memories, the one dissecting experience and describing it and processing it.

We have arrived at the beginning! The inquiry is to see the validity or not of this personal or individual self.

As you rightly say there is a labeling of experience, there are memories and these go to create a sense of a separate you or self.

Are these thoughts yours though? Lets explore this. Look at the following in relation to thoughts:

Can you stop a thought?
Can you deliberately think the next thought?
Like all folk you want to be happy but can you only think happy thoughts?
Is there a chooser of thought?

Happy looking!

Michael

[Fernando79]

Hi, Michael:

Are these thoughts yours though? Lets explore this. Look at the following in relation to thoughts:

Can you stop a thought?
Can you deliberately think the next thought?
Like all folk you want to be happy but can you only think happy thoughts?
Is there a chooser of thought?

Definitely NO to all of the above. All thoughts spring out without any control on my part. I’m the experiencer of thoughts!

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

Well that was a definitive answer! Well noticed. Thoughts do indeed just appear.

So,

Is there a chooser?

Is there a decider?

Is there any kind of owner of experience?

You answered "No" to chooser but I want to be sure. We are in very important territory here so we need to be thorough. You are on a role here so I have fired off these questions to you as quickly as I could however if you are stuck or don't know how to go about looking at this don't lose momentum but instead get back to me swiftly and I will give you exercises that you can do.

Warmly ,

Michael.

[Fernando79]

Thanks, Michael.

Is there a chooser?

Is there a decider?

There is NO chooser or decider of thoughts. This I know for certain. Actually... let me clarify: if there is a chooser and decider it is not “me”, maybe a universal mind? I cannot say what or who the chooser/decider is, if there is one.

Is there any kind of owner of experience?

Here I’m inclined to say yes, there is an owner and that owner would be the “I” that perceives - but since that “I” is nothing, the answer is NO, there is no owner of experience. There is only experience! Just a flow of experience moment to moment...

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

There is NO chooser or decider of thoughts. This I know for certain.

Well done. It is excelent seeing to notice this.

if there is a chooser and decider it is not “me”, maybe a universal mind? I cannot say what or who the chooser/decider is, if there is one.

This is just meaningless speculation. All we are interested in here is direct experience - it would me much better to let all ideas of 'universal mind' simply drop.

Here I’m inclined to say yes, there is an owner and that owner would be the “I” that perceives - but since that “I” is nothing, the answer is NO, there is no owner of experience. There is only experience! Just a flow of experience moment to moment...

Here you contradict yourself within a sentence and and seem to be inferring the answer. It is still very hard to understand from your writing what you actually experience. Try and write directly from your experience and in detail.

To explore choice please approach your bookshelf and select a book to look at or read. Pay close attention to what goes through the mind.

If there is no "I" how is the book selected?

Warm regards,

Michael

[Fernando79]

Thanks, Michael.

To explore choice please approach your bookshelf and select a book to look at or read. Pay close attention to what goes through the mind.

If there is no "I" how is the book selected?

The selection of the book appears as a thought that pops in the mind and says to choose the book.

I don’t find an owner of experience. But concoiusness which is aware of the thoughts and feelings, emotions and bodily sensations - all experience.

I don’t know how else to describe this, but consciousness that seems empty, nothing, like a blank screen. There’s nothing I can really say about it that describes it - no form.

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

Ok. Thanks.

The selection of the book appears as a thought that pops in the mind and says to choose the book.

I don’t find an owner of experience. But concoiusness which is aware of the thoughts and feelings, emotions and bodily sensations - all experience.

consciousness that seems empty, nothing, like a blank screen. There’s nothing I can really say about it that describes it - no form.

Well noticed!

So if this is the background awareness or knowingness (for want of better terms) are you still seeing a 'separate self' in operation?

If so what is causing it?, or bringing it about? Have you begun to notice in your inquiry the role of the "I" type thoughts as they continually pop up?

Also if you are begining to see that the separate self is a fiction how is this making you feel? Do you feel any different? Is your experience of everyday life, family relationships etc changing?

Warmly,

Michael.

[Fernando79]

Hi Michael,

So if this is the background awareness or knowingness (for want of better terms) are you still seeing a 'separate self' in operation?

If so what is causing it?, or bringing it about? Have you begun to notice in your inquiry the role of the "I" type thoughts as they continually pop up?

Yes, I see a separate self made of thoughts, or memories, which are also thoughts.

The “I” thoughts are sometimes helpful and positive and sometimes critical and harmful to the thought-made self itself.

Also if you are begining to see that the separate self is a fiction how is this making you feel? Do you feel any different? Is your experience of everyday life, family relationships etc changing?

My experience of life is flowing naturally and in a light way. I don’t hold much attention to the thoughts that aren’t helpful. The critical, fearful or unhappy thoughts are quickly noticed and go by without getting stuck - they flow by in awareness.

My relationships are smooth. I don’t hold grudges and don’t judge people harshly. I realize thoughts about others are unreal and mostly untrue, therefore I drop them easily and quickly. I just don’t take much of the thinking that isn’t helpful to live a happy life seriously.

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

Thanks.

I'm afraid this is a little rushed as I am working tonight otherwise I won't be able to post today.

I am trying to establish whether you have seen the fictional nature of the 'separate self'?

Is it separate?

Has there been any significant change since we began this dialogue? and if so what?

Is the non-stick aspect of negative thoughts new / recent?

Warmly,

michael

[Fernando79]

Hi Michael,

Is it separate?

No, it's not separate. It arises as a thought within the space of awareness or consciousness.

Has there been any significant change since we began this dialogue? and if so what?

Yes, there's been more clarity into the "self" as a non-entity. More spaciousness. I have not really experienced much of anything I'd consider negative or stressful. Very few hiccups that fade rather quickly.

Is the non-stick aspect of negative thoughts new / recent?

I'd say this has been happening for about 6 months, even prior to our conversation. Some days there is less stickiness than others, but I've definitely noticed it's a permanent thing going on for me. As I mentioned above, the rare negative thoughts that arise are gone very quickly, quicker than before.
Thinking about the past is gone almost completely and when a thought does surface it's gone in no time. I still have some thinking about the future, but not much. I'd like to be as free from the future as I now feel free from the past!

[MichaelD]

Hi Fernando,

It looks like things are going very well for you.

If you can give me a big fat "YES" to the question:

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self? I will give you some final questions :)

Michael