The Gate

Hi Andrei

Doubts are just arising thoughts/feelings. In relation the question "Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?", I say yes because when I consider the question, the answer is yes (although there isn't concern about these doubts). I can't categorically say that I see through the illusion of the separate self. The question seems confusing. Who is it that would see through the illusion? And how can an illusion be seen through? Hence the doubts.

There doesn't seem to be any fear or tension at the thought of 'me" not existing. It is not a concern, nor is 'physical' death, nor the planet blowing up. Energy/matter/life will continue cycling I expect. I don't like the thought of pain and suffering though, or that people (wife, children, family, friends) might suffer my (physical) death - but that's what inevitably happens.

Any hidden beliefs as to how things should have unfolded or what "seeing through the illusion of the self" entails?
Was there an expectation, hidden or not, as to what this should have brought? Yes, I expected that with "seeing through the illusion of self" any sense of separation would dissolve. That life would carry on seemingly the same, but that the perspective would be profoundly different. (By the way, I don't seek any life changes, all is good!) Perhaps the perception shift has been quite gradual rather than dramatic. A couple of years ago, after a period of 'enquiry' much dropped away (meaning, significance, concern, effort, plans, etc) - considerable peace and freedom resulted, and a 'process' seems to have continued effortlessly since then. If I suddenly found 'myself' 'here' 10 years ago it might have seemed like 'enlightenment'. Who knows? Anyway, maybe there's not much more to talk about. Or perhaps, you see something else, or have some more questions/pointers that might be useful.

Many thanks again.

Rick

Doubts are just arising thoughts/feelings.

There is no other way to sort this than looking in DE to the original sensation input. This is the number one pointer to give. Actually, if you look at all the questions I asked so far you'll see they always try to bring you to the n o w moment - what happens right now b e f o r e the judgement of the thoughts.

Let's go deeper. Whenever a doubt (a thought or a feeling or both) appear, I want you to delve into it. Live it fully. Listen to those doubts. Let them tell their whole story and let that story grow. Let the thoughts and sensation exacerbate themselves or even help them a bit grow. Be that doubt and stay with it until it slowly dissipates by itself. Let it go whenever it wants to go. Don't try to close them or fight them in any way. Be the doubts.
Maybe it's fear just wanting to express itself and neither doubts nor fear can hurt "you" in anyway. Shower that doubt in love and gratitude because in a way they care for you. Thoughts, emotions are just doing their thing just like they were programmed to do. Treat them like you'd treat small children or puppies lol.

Let me know how that worked.

The question seems confusing. Who is it that would see through the illusion? And how can an illusion be seen through? Hence the doubts.

You sort of answered yourself here. Who can be confused but the mind? Who would ask such questions but the mind? Where do these doubts come from if not from the mind? Doubts don't exist in DE do they? It's a mind game so you need to look at it like you looked at everything else during this inquiry.

Yes, I expected that with "seeing through the illusion of self" any sense of separation would dissolve. That life would carry on seemingly the same, but that the perspective would be profoundly different.

You still inhabit a body that is (or at least seems) different than others. Whether you believe in the existence of a self "ruling" over that body or not, that body will still be different than the others and will still interact with others like they are really different bodies. You can't function in this world otherwise.
Just like with every other expectations, look in DE to see if there is anything real there.

Perhaps the perception shift has been quite gradual rather than dramatic.

Yes that happens a lot. Some people had a lot of loosening up happening prior to coming here. This is not the only path that deals with the "self". For others it's something completely new and their shifts are much more grandiose. They experience meltdowns, depressions or even metabolic changes when their "castle of cards" collapses. So there is nothing to worry about. All journeys are different.

Hi Andrei

Thanks for all your prompt responses. You are much quicker than me!

Just to clarify. Doubts are not a problem. They don't plague me, and if they do come up, they pass quickly, like all thoughts. Judgement of doubts might be unpleasant, but that doesn't generally happen (if it did, it's just more thoughts that pass). The doubt was just there in relation to that particular question. So I'm not inclined to explore them as you suggest. I don't think I'm avoiding anything, but please tell me if you think I am.

I think doubts do exist in direct enquiry, don't they? They are thoughts that are present in the 'moment', aren't they. Just another thing arising, like a sound, sight, feeling, etc. Or am I missing something here?

The idea you mention of 'me' inhabiting a body is interesting. On the one hand there is no 'me' that can be located/identified, and yet there is this apparent centre of perception/activity that I call 'me', and others call 'you'. An interesting paradox!

Cheers,

Rick

Just to clarify. Doubts are not a problem. They don't plague me, and if they do come up, they pass quickly, like all thoughts. Judgement of doubts might be unpleasant, but that doesn't generally happen (if it did, it's just more thoughts that pass). The doubt was just there in relation to that particular question.

Aha! In that case I guess there is no problem. If the doubts you mention are just thoughts popping up saying silly stuff like they always do, doubts in this case, then no biggie. Problem is when those thoughts are believed to be true, which from what I see it's not your case.

think doubts do exist in direct enquiry, don't they? They are thoughts that are present in the 'moment', aren't they. Just another thing arising, like a sound, sight, feeling, etc. Or am I missing something here?

No. It sounds perfect :)

The idea you mention of 'me' inhabiting a body is interesting. On the one hand there is no 'me' that can be located/identified, and yet there is this apparent centre of perception/activity that I call 'me', and others call 'you'. An interesting paradox!

It is!

Ok Rick, I don't seem to have anything more to hit you with :D
From my end, you seem to be "done".
If you like, we have 6 last questions you can answer to. They encompass everything we talked about so some things might repeat themselves.
Afterwards I will ask the other guides to have a look, and maybe they see something we missed talking about.
Take as much time as you need and ofc if you have any questions for me, anything that its not clear, please ask.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Ok great, thanks Andrei. I'll respond to the 6 questions now:

1/No, there is no separate entity/self/... anywhere, never was!
2/The illusion of separate self was/is the presumption/assumption of a separate me. A belief that 'I' am a separate entity that runs and controls and changes a 'life'. With this illusion comes aspirations, desires, fears, plans, seeking, meaning, significance, etc. It also brings/creates a 'world' that it seeks to manipulate/fix in a multitude of ways. Such activity of a self is completely unnecessary, a waste of energy, and does not add anything to life. It is superfluous to the movement of life.
The illusion starts with a thought/presumption of 'I' that quickly builds energy into a seemingly real and concrete entity. Such an entity seemingly persists and works hard at life until it's illusory nature becomes apparent. Then much effort and concern drops away and life unfolds naturally and effortlessly.
3/When this is seen there is great ease, peace and freedom in life. Life doesn't outwardly change much, although much of the 'content' of life might drop away as it no longer matters and is no longer necessary. So life may well become much simpler, as it has it my case (not just from this dialogue, but from this 'enquiry/consideration' that has been going on for longer). Relationships are generally easy, work is simple and ordinary, life is uncomplicated and enjoyable, etc.
4/ I can't really say there was a bit that pushed me over, because the 'process' has gone for sometime and any 'outcome' has been gradual. A process seems to continues (without intention or effort).
5/Decision, intention, freewill, choice and control are all illusory. The self has assumed responsibility for most things that happened in its life, but the self has never existed and so has never had choice, control, etc. Things just happen. I don't know how. I don't think there is a 'why' things happen. They just happen, and that's just fine. Life continues beautifully all the same.
For example, I have been married twice. Both times I believed that I was making choices, responsible for decisions, and perhaps even 'created' whats happened! Now it's clear that it's just what happened.
6/ Nothing more to add except to say thank you very much for this forum and this opportunity to have this dialogue - much appreciated!

Thanks again to you Andrei, for all your time, help, insight, and generosity. May life continue to roll out wonderfully for you in Bucharest. If you are ever heading toward Australia, Melbourne, feel free to make contact.

(and feel free to continue this dialogue if you think there is something else)

Rick

Hi Rick

It looks great. We have no more questions for you. I am glad to see everything is so clear :)
What happens next is that you'll receive a PM from one of our admins with more information, and access to more resources. We have a few FB groups for aftercare or further inquiry you can join if you like. And of course, if you have any questions feel free to PM me.
It was lovely chatting with you. I myself learned a few things from this conversation so thank you as well :)

All the best!


Andrei