Bobu's journey

[Bobu]

The thoughts were automatic....i looked and there they were.....no effort

[forgetmenot]

Hi Bobu,

Congrats on working out the quote function! :)

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No Apple a picture of a red shape and thoughts about an apple.....no apple....

Lovely…so let’s take it further.

If you have an ‘apple’ or any other piece of fruit or even a piece of cheese or chocolate will do….go get it and then place it in front of you on the table.

Now LOOK carefully.

1. The image of the ‘apple’ (the apple itself) is the actual experience of colour and NOT the AE of an apple. The shape referred to as ‘apple’ is just different shades and patterns of colour. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the colour.

Does the colour itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?

2. Now, pick up the ‘apple’ and close the eyes. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and of ‘hands’ and just focus on the sensation.

Does the sensation itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just sensation?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an ‘apple’?

3. Now, take a bite of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the taste.

Does taste itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?


4. Now, have a smell of the ‘apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the smell.

Does smell itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?

5. Now, listen to the sound of the ‘crunch of an apple’. Ignore ALL thoughts and ‘mental’ images that appear of and about the ‘apple’ and just focus on the sound.

Does sound itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just sound?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sound is that of an ‘apple’?

6. So now look at the label ‘apple’. Or the thought “I am looking at and eating an apple”.

Does the label itself, or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’?

So is there really actual experience of an ‘apple’ or what is actually appearing is colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound + thoughts about an ‘apple’?

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?


Love, Kay
xx

The thoughts were automatic....i looked and there they were.....no effort

Great! We will be looking at the nature of thought a little later...right now the focus is on noticing actual experience.

[Bobu]

Does the colour itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?

No.....im using chocolate...and no.....

[Bobu]

Does taste itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?

It's just taste....a sensation in the mouth....

[forgetmenot]

I will respond once all questions have been answered,

Love, Kay
Xx

[Bobu]

Does the sensation itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just sensation?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an apple‘

Hi Kay...i went to sleep...im back...no ,sensation doesn't KNOW anything. It recieves stimulus and thats it....thanks Kay.

[Bobu]

Does smell itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay....it seems that thoughts arise to lable it...but with eyes closed and paying no attention to the lable. There is only a fragence...atractive but that's all......thanks Kay.

[Bobu]

Does the label itself, or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay.......as I looked at the apple I noticed it was glowing......the lable docent know anything about what i was looking at or eating
It's a lable.....thanks Kay.

[Bobu]

So is there really actual experience of an ‘apple’ or what is actually appearing is colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound + thoughts about an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay....no apple is expirienced...what is e xpirienced is what you listed....i checked it out carefully...thanks Kay.

[Bobu]

However, is an apple actually known?

Hi Kay.......no apple is known...thanks Kay.

[Bobu]

Hi Kay...it looks like what is perceived as knowing is an add on to what is looked at....like a judgement call...thanks Kay...Bobu

[forgetmenot]

Hey Bobu,

I would really appreciate it if you could put all your answers onto one post instead of individual posts. It keeps them all together, less confusing and easier to read.

Does the colour itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just colour?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that the colour appearing is that of an ‘apple’?

No.....im using chocolate...and no.....

You haven’t answered this question in its entirety.
Without thought, without any preconceived idea, HOW IS IT KNOWN that the colour appearing is that of ‘chocolate’?

Does taste itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just taste?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the taste of an ‘apple’?

It's just taste....a sensation in the mouth....

Taste is taste and sensation is sensation.

The sensation labelled ‘chewing’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of taste or chocolate.
The label ‘mouth’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of a mouth
The taste labelled ‘chocolate’ is the AE of taste and not the AE of sensation or chocolate.
Can you see this?

Does the sensation itself know anything about an ‘apple’? Or is it just sensation?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the sensation has anything to do with an apple‘

Hi Kay...i went to sleep...im back...no ,sensation doesn't KNOW anything. It recieves stimulus and thats it....thanks Kay.

How exactly does a sensation receive stimulus?

Close the eyes and put your palms face down on a table. IGNORE ALL mental images and thoughts about hands and table and what is the actual appearance of ie what is the actual experience?

Does smell itself know anything about an apple? Or is there just smell?
Without thought, without any preconceived ideas, how is it known that it is the smell of an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay....it seems that thoughts arise to lable it...but with eyes closed and paying no attention to the lable. There is only a fragence...atractive but that's all......thanks Kay.

Yes, lovely! It is only thought that infers the smell labelled ‘apple’ is that of an apple or chocolate!

Does the label itself, or the thought itself know anything about an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay.......as I looked at the apple I noticed it was glowing......the lable docent know anything about what i was looking at or eating
It's a lable.....thanks Kay.

Yes, so can you see how thought/labels know absolutely nothing? Thought is not aware, so it's useless as a means of knowing the truth.

So is there really actual experience of an ‘apple’ or what is actually appearing is colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound + thoughts about an ‘apple’?

Hi Kay....no apple is expirienced...what is e xpirienced is what you listed....i checked it out carefully...thanks Kay.

Wonderful!

However, is an apple actually known?

Hi Kay.......no apple is known...thanks Kay.

Exactly! All that is known is colour, taste, smell, sensation, sound and thoughts (about an apple), but an apple is not known.

Hi Kay...it looks like what is perceived as knowing is an add on to what is looked at....like a judgement call...thanks Kay...Bobu

Knowing ABOUT something is thought, while the knowing AS (the appearance - which is known ie colour, sound, thought, smell etc) is direct/actual.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay
xx

[Bobu]

[/quote] You haven’t answered this question in its entirety.
Without thought, without any preconceived idea, HOW IS IT KNOWN that the colour appearing is that of ‘chocolate [/quote]

It's not know by looking at color....thanks Kay

[Bobu]

The sensation labelled ‘chewing’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of taste or chocolate.
The label ‘mouth’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of a mouth
The taste labelled ‘chocolate’ is the AE of taste and not the AE of sensation or chocolate.
Can you see this?

Hi Kay.....yes I can this...that narrows down my descriptions to only what is looked at...nothing more than what you ask me to look at....ps...what does AE mean ?

[Bobu]

Close the eyes and put your palms face down on a table. IGNORE ALL mental images and thoughts about hands and table and what is the actual appearance of ie what is the actual experience

Hi Kay Stimulus is a thought ,a lable..........when I did this hands on table there is no hands or table a sensation is expirienced...THANKS KAY.....