The Gate

Hi Pran,

How are you doing?

Reagrds, Petrus

Hi Petrus,
I'm fine, bit tired, but okay. Sorry for not posting earlier, My parents visited, had few dinner parties at various relatives places. It's really a tiresome thing to do here in India. To be honest, there wasn't really any desire to check the forum in last few days. Thanks for sticking with me.

You seem to give all the "right" answers, but has your quest become to an and now?

haha, I know. I double checked all the answers to make sure they are from DE and not just some hearsay BS from memory. I don't know if the quest came to an end or not but the intensity of seeking isn't same as before.

What stuff exactly?

Its just thoughts like there is spontaneous laughter in some, going into samadhi for some, a sort of "Aha moment" for some, for some its physical relaxation. Ramana renounced everything when he realized this. Nothing like this in my case so there is naturally a thought like it must be something else that they realized. And of course, It's just thoughts.

So can you live with the thought: "This is it"?

Sure, I can live with this thought, but it still seems like another belief. Few days ago "There is no I" was more like a fact, but now it seems like just another belief.

Is there a real I that is disappointed?

So here is the thing, there were certain expectations from family and society from me and somehow mind was convinced that this is going to help me fulfill these expectations. And now I know it doesn't matter, there is a feeling of sadness, disappointment, there are thoughts about what to do next. At the same time, there is knowing that there is no real "I" who has any real control over this.

Do you feel this conversation has changed something for you?

In general, there seems to be a lack of interest in this stuff. The initial intensity of seeking is no more.

Thank you for your selfless help,
Pran.

Hi Pran,

The initial intensity of seeking is no more.

Ok, fair enough.
Seeing is for everybody different. What happens after is also for everybody different.
I will give you the final 6 questions and after that we will see whats next.

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Regards, Petrus

Few days ago "There is no I" was more like a fact, but now it seems like just another belief.

Check again what I is if it is passing by (only a few times each day).
Is it a real thing or is it a thought? Is the thought of you really you?

Check again what I is if it is passing by (only a few times each day).

Thanks for the tip. Just being really quite for a moment clears up things.

Is it a real thing or is it a thought? Is the thought of you really you?

Of course, it's a thought. The thought of me is another thought.

Hi Petrus,

Before answering the final questions, I would like to share a doubt with you. It is seen that there is no separate entity, 'self', 'I', 'me' etc. in a sense it was imagined to be (like a "doer" of things). But there is awareness of things which seems localized. Isn't there a separation in awareness? What if "I" refers to this localized awareness instead of a "separate doer/controller"?

Regards,
Pran.

Hi Pran,

But there is awareness of things which seems localized.

It seems so yes, but is there a location where this is experienced?
With eyes closed is there location?

I think you also refer to the assumption that another person must be in another location.
But what is "the other" in actual experience?

Warm regards, Petrus

Hi Petrus,

It seems so yes, but is there a location where this is experienced?
With eyes closed is there location?

Damn, I feel stupid now. :)
Obviously there is no location with eyes closed.

But what is "the other" in actual experience?

In actual experience, "the other" is just seeing, hearing, touching etc.

Thank you,
Pran.

Hi Pran,

I feel stupid now. :)

Haha, who exactly?

Warmest regards, Petrus

who exactly?

Hehe, guess what?... This was the exact thought that appeared after typing that sentence. Just a way of saying!

So, now you will answer the 6 questions?

Hi Petrus,
Just felt like taking some time. I'm ready to answer these questions now:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There isn't any separate entity at all, in any way, shape or form. There wasn't one ever.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It's like an onion with nothing in the center. Then there is this layer of a thought claiming to be 'I am', Everything else is built upon this layer: I am writing, I am seeing, I am Indian etc. This balloons up into an 'ego' or an 'entity' but when you peel these layers you find nothing solid in the center. Just being, seeing, hearing, thinking etc. without any entity doing it. So to be precise it's like an onion with nothing in the center whose layers are made up of thought saying there is something in the center. There is just this "whatever is happening".

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It's a relief. It just feels more relaxed. All the seriousness about life is gone. There is less taking things personally, which translates into being less angry and frustrated. Of course time and again this 'I' pops up, but it's okay. The big difference before and after this dialogue: Frantic Seeking and searching for truth/liberation or whatever the hell is no longer.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I'm not sure and can't pinpoint a single bit. Damn! I'm not even sure if anything happened at all. It seems whatever happened (besides recognition that there is no 'I') was really slow and gradual.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decisions are made. Intentions 'seems' to arise spontaneously, but it's clear that there is no entity or rather there can't be any entity which can consciously control intent, so obviously there is no control. There is no chooser so talking about choice becomes pointless.

6) Anything to add?

For those reading: Just look and see there is no 'I'. During this process, if any thought comes up, recognize it and just look if there is anyone thinking it.

Regards,
Pran.

Thanks Pran,

I will give your answers to the other guides.
I'll let you know if they have any questions for you.

It was my pleasure.

Warm regards, Petrus

Hi Petrus,

It was really nice to have this conversation with you. The questions really helped me to look into the right direction.
Thank you for everything.

Cheers...!
Pran.

Hi Pran,

The other guides have no more questions.
So now a LU admin will contact you and invite you for the "post-gate" groups.

Cheers to you too...
Petrus