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[Bill]

Hello Pauline,

There's no disagreement with thoughts here - including the I thought. I went about my day yesterday, mostly being Pauline, sometimes stopping and asking what's happening, what's doing everything, is there an 'I' doing anything ... stuff like that. Well mostly stuff was really just happening ... Actually, there were glimpses of openness and spaciousness, and freedom - I guess the freedom of not being caught in Pauline-ing ... even though that's fine too. I'll see what comes up today with the looking - though it feels like I'm now expecting someone that's already at the door. I'm not sure where else to go with this.

That is very good - I really like how you notice things.
Pauline is not going away... Pauline-ing will still happen. you cant get rid of her no matter what you do.
There's no problem with that. You're doing good.


So to sum up our look at thoughts...we don't seem to know where they come from
It seems like they are ours but we can't stop them
If we look at what's real, we can't really say we are in charge of them
Yes, there's seeming control, but not ultimate control.
We don't know what our next thought will be.
We can't stop our thoughts.

Looking more at thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?
In other words, are they all about you?

Give this exercise a go. Look at the computer you're on. (or phone or tablet)
Is it more true to say, it is A computer? or a MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process?
How does something (anything) become 'ours'?

Answer from your direct experience, whatever is true for you.

Oh you missed one from the previous batch... it was the question you had asked yourself.
We have a thing here.. if you ask a question, you get to answer it.
(I know... its not fair, but it seems to work here) :)

Will I care about anything. Will I see a pointlessness in everything. Will I become a nihilist. Yes - I see that there's no 'I' to become any of that - but still it persists. I don't want meaninglessness.

What's your answer to your own question? Look.

[PaulineF]

Pauline is not going away... Pauline-ing will still happen. you cant get rid of her no matter what you do.
There's no problem with that. You're doing good.

Sweet - good to know :)

So to sum up our look at thoughts...we don't seem to know where they come from
It seems like they are ours but we can't stop them

Yes.

If we look at what's real, we can't really say we are in charge of them

We are not - though admittedly there is sometimes resistance to this. It feels like I ought to say, ‘Yeah, but hang on, because I can control my thoughts sometimes. I can ‘make’ myself think differently, to look at things differently.’ Then of course the answer to that has to be, ‘Well fine, but what is ‘making’ yourself think differently?’ - then we’re back to the ‘I’ question. If there’s no one there, then there can’t be anyone to make anything think differently. In the end there are just those thoughts arising … thoughts about thoughts about thoughts …. Then the frustration arises!

Yes, there's seeming control, but not ultimate control.

Agreed.

We don't know what our next thought will be.

We don’t, that’s fir sure.

We can't stop our thoughts.

Agree - though again, resistance to this arises (see above) … Maybe I can stop them … What about when there’s meditation and a cessation of thought. It feels like someone was in charge to do that. And yet, I look again, and see no one is in charge. OK *big sigh* - that feels fine. I notice there’s a frustration and struggle arises … the need to disagree or prove otherwise. Then I look and see that it’s not possible and there’s a sigh of relief, like, ok, I give up! Or, just giving up ;)

Looking more at thoughts, do they all start out with an I attached, or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?

Thoughts don’t start with an ‘I’ attached. Thoughts just seem to take on a life of their own … they gather momentum and spin a story, and there’s total involvement of an ‘I’ in that story … there’s a ‘being part’ of what’s being told. I guess like reading a book … you’re totally immersed in it and it just goes along and along, each part leading to the next part and one thing leading to the other and the other and so on … that’s what thoughts are like. ‘I’m going to sit down and get stuck in to the LU this afternoon while I have some time … it will be good to do that … Maybe I should wash the car too. It’s such a mess right now, I haven’t washed it for weeks. Och, that can wait til the weekend. I don’t have anything on anyway. Maybe I should do something at the weekend - there are a couple of films that would be good to see. Oh dear, what a palaver at the Oscars - I might go see Moonlight - not in that crappy cinema though. What a bloody rip off! £12 a ticket for a seat that gave me whiplash. …’ And on and on. Just thoughts tumbling over each other, a big story. And it feels like it’s real because that’s all that’s ever been going on and if that’s all that’s ever been going on then it’s just what it is and everything is that and that is everything. Except then there’s the looking and the, oh - hang on a minute!!!

In other words, are they all about you?

Argh. Are thoughts all about me? Do you mean is there a ‘me’ thinking? Or is there a ‘me’ at the centre of thoughts that are arising? Thoughts revolve around a ‘me’, or the ‘I’. Every thought appears to come from the ‘I’ perspective - whatever thoughts arise. So thoughts can arise about how summer is not so far off and what could I plan … Or people are having a terrible time in some part of the world and then there’s and I feeling the compassion …. Or there can be thoughts about people being idiot drivers compared to the ‘I’ … so in a way, thoughts are all about ‘me’, or at least they revolve around me and the perspectives and beliefs of Pauline. For it surely can’t be any other way - arising in Pauline awareness and falling away from Pauline awareness. I don’t know if I’m answering that properly - I’m sure you’ll let me know ;)

Give this exercise a go. Look at the computer you're on. (or phone or tablet)
Is it more true to say, it is A computer? or a MY computer?

As there’s no ‘I’ then there can’t be a ‘my’ - so for sure, it’s a computer. If someone tried to take it from me or throw it out of the window, then it would certainly be ‘mine’. So no ‘my’, but ‘my’ when it’s useful.

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?

In the final analysis, a computer can’t be attached to a self. I want to say that if the I jumps in then it can make a computer ‘mine’ - but again, that’s only a thought. There is nothing that can be attached to an ‘I’. In the same way that the tv in the corner does not belong to the plant next to it, my computer cannot belong to me - at least that’s how it seems.

How do we possess something? What is the process?

OK - you’re stretching me here - it feels slightly frustrating, but interesting! I could go off on a ramble here - who knows …. So - how do we possess something. Ultimately, we can’t possess anything - simply, if there’s no ‘I’ then there is no thing to possess something. If we are in the narrative, the Pauline story, then Pauline can seemingly possess something - thoughts arise around possessing … I’ll go home to my flat, I’ll cook my tea, I’ll walk my dog, I’ll spend my money … and so on’ … Thoughts create the possessor and the possessed and spin the story to make it seem like there is possession … So, ‘that’ and ‘me’. That thing and me. That thing is mine, that thing is not mine. That thing is hers/his/theirs. So there’s separateness - to possess, things have to be separate, there needs to be a separate ‘I’. Except the ‘I’ does not exist as a thing, a tangible real thing, an entity, therefore it can’t be separate and if it’s not separate it sure can’t possess anything.

Ummm … I think that constitutes a ramble, and again, I can’t be sure I’ve answered the question, but I hope I’ve made a good attempt :)

How does something (anything) become 'ours'?

I think I answered that above … things can become ‘ours’ only in the realm of thoughts where thoughts arise and a narrative is spun where things are mine, yours, theirs (or not) and when we’re under the illusion that the ‘I’ is a separate entity that can indeed possess. That’s when something seemingly becomes ‘ours’. But if we look closely, we can see it’s not really ours at all. Nothing belongs to Pauline at all. Which is a bit sad, because I’m not sure who owns my salary when it hits my bank account on payday tomorrow ;)

Oh you missed one from the previous batch... it was the question you had asked yourself.
We have a thing here.. if you ask a question, you get to answer it.
(I know... its not fair, but it seems to work here) :)

Will I care about anything. Will I see a pointlessness in everything. Will I become a nihilist. Yes - I see that there's no 'I' to become any of that - but still it persists. I don't want meaninglessness.

What's your answer to your own question? Look.

I feel like there was a kind of answer there - there’s no ‘I’ to become any of that - how can something become a nihilist if it doesn’t exist? ‘I don’t want meaninglessness’ - this is just another ‘want/not want’ by the ‘I’. I guess now the question arises - Well, what about when decisions are being made and there is some ‘Pauline-ing’ required to come to a decision that would have a good outcome for Pauline? Say for example, take a job somewhere really awful but with good money, or stay put where it’s nice and earn peanuts. So then it doesn’t feel productive to just be saying, well, look at the question - what’s your answer? So I look and say, well there’s no ‘I’ so it doesn’t really matter - it’s just a question that’s arising and there’s a decision or choice feeling like it’s being made, but it’s all just thoughts anyway so whatever I seemingly choose remember I have no control anyway (because there is no I) so I might as well just not make any decision or put any Pauline-ing into anything, even though I don’t have any control anyway and even if I wanted to make decisions or not, it would all still arise. Argh! - I guess I just tied myself in knots again and hit a block :) Or something - I’m just arguing with myself, but there’s no satisfactory answer at this point. It feels like I”m just tripping myself up even though it’s very simple and there’s no need.

I enjoyed that though there was much frustration arising today doing this stuff - that's fine :) Over to you, Bill!

P.

[Bill]

You really dug into those good... more than what I was asking even. That's great. I really like your intensity for this.
Its all good. You will notice that sometimes I'll ask several questions along the same theme, its fine to lump them all together and answer in one response. Point by point is not needed.... unless you feel more comfortable that way.

Please don't feel you need to agree with everything. as there are no right answers to any of this... just the ones that you give. I felt a tinge of that in some of your answers. If you feel something strongly opposed to what I might be suggesting, by all means feel free to say that.
I'm just pointing out things and hopefully I'm pointing well enough for you to see them, but if not, tell me please.
I dont want you to be convinced of anything, just that what you see is true for you in your own experience.

The whole idea behind looking intently at thoughts, is that this is where we are locked in and self hypnotized.
We believe all our thoughts. If we are thinking it.. it must be true, because we are somehow generating it.
But in looking more close we see that ultimately we have very little if any control of thoughts.
We can't control them, except for limited short durations and if left on their own they are unpredictable.
And they are not ours in the sense that we make them. They just come.... and go.. on their own.

Possession is purely thought based. Only in thought do we own anything.
Now, get me, Im not saying we are going to be 'possession free' after this... noooo.. We are simply
examining what is going on, and how powerful and controlling thoughts are. You'll still feel like things
are yours although that feeling might be less strong than before.. Or not.. it doesnt matter really.
We simply want to 'see' how this happens and know that it happens.

Do you see how literally all thoughts are stories?
We see, a label is put on what we see, and a story is developed.
Every thought is essentially past tense in its nature.
Describing something that has happened in the past, or based on the past what might happen in the future.
The only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here.
To see this we need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see.
We only need a very short amount of this 'pure' perception or SEEING
to see that I is truly illusory in nature.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?
Lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

Doubts and fear are to be expected. They are not an enemy. Once seeing happens, the whole structure of belief starts to fall like dominoes. Don’t fear it; welcome it. There is no one to control it. Just trust the process and let it be okay.

Oh...How is the GG book going? Anything there interesting?
Also the looking for the self when that thought comes to you... anything there to report?
And about this.... keep LOOKING.. its the most important thing.

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill

Please don't feel you need to agree with everything. as there are no right answers to any of this... just the ones that you give. I felt a tinge of that in some of your answers. If you feel something strongly opposed to what I might be suggesting, by all means feel free to say that.

Thing is, I do agree with everything you’re saying - there is just allout agreement … I’m really just acknowledging, ‘Yes, Bill - I see that this is so’ :) If I disagree with anything, I'll let you know :)

The whole idea behind looking intently at thoughts, is that this is where we are locked in and self hypnotized.

I get this ‘locked in’ - I get quite frustrated during the day when I’m going about my business, then after two hours, saying to myself ‘Where is the I?’ and I answer myself, ‘Nowhere … stuff is just happening’, but I m trying to grasp on to it, to hold on to the just happening, which seems ridiculous. Thoughts are there and sometimes, just sometimes, I can see them coming in and there is the awareness of that, then 2 seconds later I’m back to pontificating and trying trying trying to get somewhere. I know there’s nowhere to get to, but the feeling to do something or get somewhere to get something can be strong. When I just drop it, I go back to Pauline-ing, til I remember and try again to experience something. All that said, there are still the moments of just seeing that occur, no matter how short and sweet they may be. Perhaps I want to hang on to that … then I find myself thinking, jesus, no thanks already. I really dont want to be walking around looking at Pauline doing stuff all day from a detached perspective … I know that won’t happen, so I’m not resistant to it, so it feels like maybe it’s something else I’m after. Maybe I’m saying that can’t be it - it feels like I need to be walking around in some ongoing, permanent sense of knowing something. Irritating as hell, because in the final analysis, there’s nothing to know and no one to know. I do get that!

We believe all our thoughts. If we are thinking it.. it must be true, because we are somehow generating it.

whatever’s occuring, either in the head or outside of it, appears real (as opposed to true) and so goes unquestioned. Dare I say I agree? ;) I have investigated and know this to be true!

Possession is purely thought based. Only in thought do we own anything.
Now, get me, Im not saying we are going to be 'possession free' after this... noooo.. We are simply
examining what is going on, and how powerful and controlling thoughts are. You'll still feel like things
are yours although that feeling might be less strong than before.. Or not.. it doesnt matter really.
We simply want to 'see' how this happens and know that it happens.

I imagine life just going on pretty much as it always has … but again, (maybe I’m having a Resisting Day) there’s the thoughts, well, life will go on, and I’ll probably forget about this and sometimes it’ll pop into my head and I’ll think, oh yeah … I forgot about that, all this shit’s just happening and there’s no me doing any of it or seeing any of it … etc. And so I want there to be some kind of ‘outcome’- something different. I don’t even know what - i don’t care about basking in bliss, or being in a special place or knowing something special or my life being changed … because I can see the futility in those desires (arising of their own accord as they do) and know there’s no truth to them so it doesn’t even matter … There just seems to be this endless getting caught up then letting go and seeing, getting caught up, then letting go and seeing, getting caught up and then letting go and seeing. I actually just did a big long sigh and stuck my bottom lip out. OK, so there was a big long sigh and the bottom lip fell out ;) See what I’m saying?

Do you see how literally all thoughts are stories?

I see that thoughts are just thoughts. I don’t really see them as stories, though they can appear that way. But yes, there is labelling and identifying and stories apparently are created. Thoughts being the past tense in their nature - I took a look. At first I wasn’t sure, like if I’m planning something or wondering what to do - I can’t see the past tense there. Isn’t that just another label. Argh! Today, Bill, thoughts are frustrating.

Describing something that has happened in the past, or based on the past what might happen in the future.

OK< maybe I can work with that :) Yes, OK - I see now (I looked), all thoughts are past tense, essentially.

The only thing that is real is what is happening right now and here.
To see this we need a willingness to see prior to labels being put on what we see.

There was some thought around this today … I embarked on thinking about beliefs … what I believe/don’t believe, what I think about this person or that person and this place and that place, and how stupid it all began to appear. It all seemed very ridiculous! All these beliefs and opinions that seem so real (physically, like in the body/heart/wherever, as well as mentally) It kind of makes a mockery of my wanting to throw a lemon meringue pie in my colleagues face because I think he’s a plonker. Looking at beliefs is something I’d like to explore a bit more as I go about the life. It feels there’s stuff to do there.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?
Lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

I waved my hand about some and observed the hand moving. That was all. No self moving it. Now I could look at my hand and say I’m moving it ...I’m going to move it up - it goes up - and down - it goes down. There’s observing the thoughts, and the hand - but finally, no self doing any of it.

Oh...How is the GG book going? Anything there interesting?

I must confess the GG book fell of my radar, so I leapt on it again and will continue doing this at the end of each day. I did read the Jamie one, which I thought was very funny, but also alot of which resonated with me:

You can’t find something that does not exist. Agreed? Can you find a unicorn in your room? Do you even go and look for it when I ask you? So why are you still looking for the self? There’s nothing there to find. But here—this is subtle—if you keep looking, hoping that you’ll finally ‘get’ it? You’re waiting for your self to get it. Right?

That particular line - you’re waiting for yourself to get it - struck a chord. I am waiting for myself to get it, even though there’s no self to get anything. I know that - ok, so there’s that thought arising - but I’m still expecting something to change. Then we’re on the loop again … "i can see that, but still, I can see that, but still" … I don’t actually know what I’m waiting for. I really don’t.

And about this.... keep LOOKING.. its the most important thing.

The good thing is that I’m finding myself looking more and more.

Thanks, Bill :)

[Bill]

Hi Pauline,

And so I want there to be some kind of ‘outcome’- something different. I don’t even know what - i don’t care about basking in bliss, or being in a special place or knowing something special or my life being changed … because I can see the futility in those desires (arising of their own accord as they do) and know there’s no truth to them so it doesn’t even matter … There just seems to be this endless getting caught up then letting go and seeing, getting caught up, then letting go and seeing, getting caught up and then letting go and seeing. I actually just did a big long sigh and stuck my bottom lip out. OK, so there was a big long sigh and the bottom lip fell out ;) See what I’m saying?

Yes, I know this can feel very frustrating. I know the feeling. I had felt I 'had it' but still didnt quite see fully then all of a sudden it just clicked. Its ok to feel this frustration, and I'd be worried if you didnt feel it. It tells me you are probably very close...... now if we can find something to help you take that look.

That particular line - you’re waiting for yourself to get it - struck a chord. I am waiting for myself to get it, even though there’s no self to get anything. I know that - ok, so there’s that thought arising - but I’m still expecting something to change. Then we’re on the loop again … "i can see that, but still, I can see that, but still" … I don’t actually know what I’m waiting for. I really don’t.

Yes .. you are expecting 'something'..what, you dont know.. its frustrating yes. its natural to expect something.... Dont beat yourself up.
Understand we are not trying to make you behave any different than you do now.. whether you see this thing or not. This is not about changing behavior. I understand that its a bit confusing. Bear with it. :)
Im going to give you a list of things we have found that this pointing does NOT point to. This was developed by several of us a few years ago from what we saw getting in the way of people seeing this..... you could also call it 'Great Expectations'. These are the things that hang people up. I think we have gone over most of them but I'd like you to give it a good going over.. you dont need to discuss any unless they are somehow an issue, or if you feel resistance.

[Bill]

This is a list of what we've found as a group that liberation is not...
Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not about convincing anyone of anything.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, or getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, nor is it magical or mystical.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

Pauline, please comment on this list....anything that jumps out at you.
Please read thru and if anything pushes your buttons.. let me know.
Look good at this, as we need to address any that are still around.
Be brutally honest in looking at this.

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill

Just checking in to let you know I'll reply to your posts tomorrow :) All good - have friends round tonight and I'll struggle to find the time to sit down and take the time needed. Look forward to getting back to you a demain.

P.

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill

OK - ready to go. I’ll address your latest response first then give you some feedback on where I’m at.

This is a list of what we've found as a group that liberation is not...
Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

(list follows)

I know what you’re saying about expectations, and to get to the point, I really don’t have any of these … I do not expect to be a different person, have a different life, or to ‘become enlightened’ - or anything in The List. I’ve thought about all of them and they’re not on my radar. That said, I’d be lying if I said I don’t expect ‘something’ to happen - and that expectation seems reasonable. I do expect there to be a ‘Aha!’ moment, then everything as it was, only with a clear seeing that was I thought ‘was’ (me/I) actually isnt’ real afterall … As for what follows, who knows. I don’t think it will be any different, Pauline will still be Pauline, but I do expect to have a different perspective, and that seems reasonable too … a shift in something. I already had a glimpse of the ‘oh yeah’ - I could see that I was not real, that there was a Pauline just going about stuff, and I expect, yes I do!, to experience that ‘aha’ again, only a total understanding … like you said in the post before the list,

I know the feeling. I had felt I 'had it' but still didnt quite see fully then all of a sudden it just clicked.

THAT is what I expect, the click. That’s all.

I had a day of frustration yesterday - completely identified with the me, and very strongly … I realised I don’t get it, it feels so out of reach, the seeing … which I know is silly. Given what I read on the forum and in GG, I get that what I’m feeling and experiencing is perfectly part of whats going on and not unusual … but the frustration and irritation is here, and I’m getting frustrated that I can’t just see it. Yesterday I looked, I tried, I wanted, and the same over and over. Looking became frustrating… and yes, I could see the futility of the self looking for something, trying trying … observing … ‘look directly’, ‘look!’ I tried to give up but realised the trying was just another aspect of the I trying to get somewhere and do something. Argh! So frustrating.

It feels like I’m trying to figure out a puzzle that can’t be figured out - it will just figure itself out. But still , there feels like something is to be done for sure. I wonder if I’m just tangled up in me-ness so strongly the past day or two because on some level there’s an avoidance of some sort happening. Well, I guess that would be true, but - well, you know what I mean I’m sure. There are feelings about being a bit stupid, not quick enough, not able to see something that by all accounts seems to be effortless. I read thru GG stories and can see the frustration folks can have with this liberation - and the ease with which others ‘click’. The desire comes and goes … there’s internal chat - maybe I don’t want this enough/maybe I’m too lazy/does it matter anyway/I just can’t get it/I don’t think I will get it/when will I get it/what if I’m someone that take 20 pages of posts of the forum and months of looking without finding/what can I do to make it happen. Haha … i can see how silly that sounds, and of course, if I look closely at these thoughts, I can see that’s all they are, thoughts … but it seems like I can’t stick long with that realisation before I’m off again pondering the whole process and what’s stopping me.

I guess I’m brain-dumping again, Bill - there’s probably either a lot in there to investigate, or not much at all … I don’t know. What would you have me looking at next? Can you give me a steer here?

As always, with gratitude and thanks for guiding me here … I really do appreciate your spending time to help push me thru that gate :)

P

[Bill]

Ok Pauline.. this is all about what I was figuring was there. Just stay with it and allow the frustrations to come up.. they will go as everything else does.
If anything you might be 'trying' too hard and too much attempting to figure it out, but that is normal too. Just relax as you can and see if you can leave this alone when its not time to be with it. I know that's all easier said than done.

Im going to share a great article from a friend of mine... Delma
It seems Delma had a person she was working with that just would not look no matter what pointer was given.
So Delma wrote this instruction to her on Looking, that was powerful and direct.
Its a little strong, do not take offense.... its meant as an aid for you to seeing what we are pointing to.
You understand all of this well... that is not the issue.
Only you can do the looking. Looking is what you need to concentrate on more than anything..... there's a lot on this website about it... find out as much as you can about it
Relax and let this in and hear what she is saying. Its good stuff.

Please read it a few times, sleep on it and then tell me what it says to you.



-------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Seeker,

It's Never Easy to Write This....

I'm not sure how many ways I can tell you this, and so most times I just have to repeat myself. You don't listen. Thoughts crowd out the very ability to listen to direction. And! You often become frustrated with this direction and walk away from our inquiry thinking that the pointer can't be of much use. You assume that the person giving it is just wrong about what it is you need to hear in order to see this. But the truth is,

You're wrong.

There's a reason why this particular pointer is the most effective I've come across. It's direct. Blunt. It leaves no room for discussion, and my role is to end the discussion entirely.

I don't want a dialogue with you!

Don't be offended by that.


While a dialogue may help you to UNDERSTAND what's being said, that understanding isn't what's going to get this done. I'll tell you what will and I'll give it my best shot, knowing that it's worked for hundreds of people already, maybe thousands. Here it is, so listen up.

Just Look.

That's it. It's the best and most thorough pointer you're going to find if you could just stop long enough to do what's directed.

Now, you have to ask yourself this... how is it that this pointer can be it. The one. Everything. The KEY? Go ahead and ask that question. Test it out. Tear it up. How is that IT?

And when you hit a brick wall, just maybe you'll do what's being asked which is to notice that a speck of dust is more real than the self. A droplet of dew is more real than the self has ever been or can ever be.

How is that true? In what way is that true?

When the answer comes, just stop and take that in. Then scan that brain for all of the teachings which say that this is simple. Childlike. Humble. Think of all the accounts of those who've 'gotten it' and said that they couldn't believe how simple it is. And the look of wonder? It's not because they're suddenly seeing pixie dust or rainbows. It's because they stopped to follow the directive, and then they saw the truth of REALITY AS IT IS.

Now....

Just Look.

Look at something near you.... your hand even.

What is seen?
What is not?

Look at anything.
Anywhere.
Any time.

What is seen?
What is not?

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill - thank you for this ... will look at this and report back soon :)

[PaulineF]

So Delma wrote this instruction to her on Looking, that was powerful and direct. Please read it a few times, sleep on it and then tell me what it says to you.

Hi Bill - thanks for the Delma post - I read it before, I guess on the forum somewhere. Honestly, it doesn’t say anything to me that you’ve not already said, the long and short of it being ‘Just look’.

I see that everywhere in the guiding, and I get why - because it’s the most simple, direct instruction - I get that. And I daresay everyone will say, ‘Yeah, I get that … just look! And hey! I’m looking like crazy but i’m still not seeing!’

For me, many times when i read that, I’m just thinking, ‘What the hell does ‘just look’ mean anyway? Look at what exactly? Look where?’ - because that’s been the order of things (seemingly, yes) throughout the past few decades … ‘Looking’ in Pauline life requires a looker (seemingly) and a direction in which to look. So the instruction can seem frustrating in itself because there’s no ‘where’ to look and no ‘thing’ to look at. And actually, no Pauline to even look. That can seem confusing - because then it can appear you’re trying yourself in knots trying to look for something … ‘Well everyone’s saying ‘just look!’ so I better get on with it …. And there’s trying and trying because it seems like there’s something to be done, but still there’s nothing happening except frustration that you must be a bit slow or something because if it was THAT easy, then everyone would be just looking and it would be seen straight away and, well, whatever.... Then there’s the seeing how frustration is happening … and there’s a crack where there’s seeing - looking.

There are moments when I can see through that crack, albeit fleetingly - I see the body and see it’s not ‘mine’, there’s seeing the I thought arise and seeing there’s no one thinking it … unfolding with no controller, no owner … I can see that it’s all just happening. I can see that the thoughts just one after the other, observing them … then there’s a me again, pretty quickly, back doing Pauline-ing. Even though there’s the seeing of that, it doesn’t feel real. It feels like I’m faking it. There's not really any seeing, there's just imagining that something has been seen. Hence the going back to try and find it, again and again.

All the time I’m writing this, I’m thinking, boy, this must be frustrating for Bill (though there’s no Bill, so I really shouldn’t give a sh*t ;) ) I hear a cocophony of ‘just look!’ voices coming at me. I imagine your picking all this apart and again asking me to just look. I imagine myself (yes, I know!) getting frustrated, wondering what the fck I’m doing wrong, or just not doing. Then realising that these are all just thoughts and bullshit, and then there’s a dropping again, just noticing what’s happening … fingers bashing the keyboard, thoughts arising and falling away. Then funny. Hmmm.
It can appear easy to ‘just look’ - but it feels harder because there are years of habit and ‘me stickiness’ that seemingly keeps us from just looking.

Anyway, Delma.

Now, you have to ask yourself this... how is it that this pointer can be it. The one. Everything. The KEY? Go ahead and ask that question. Test it out. Tear it up. How is that IT?

And when you hit a brick wall, just maybe you'll do what's being asked which is to notice that a speck of dust is more real than the self. A droplet of dew is more real than the self has ever been or can ever be.

‘how is that IT’ - it seems like that’s all there is to do. Seeing what’s going on is always going to be a case of just looking. I’m just looking right now. The pull is to say ‘I’m typing, I'm looking out the window, I'm hearing the rain, etc etc’ - yet there is just hearing rain happening, typing happening, seeing the view, noticing the body, then noticing the thoughts.

It feels that when this is happening, that the trying kicks in. Trying to notice ‘Do I feel something/is there an I doing this?/it sure feels like it/the noticing of the strong identification with the I - that feels like the block. It still feels like there’s an I doing all this. It’s so fcking sticky! So there’s looking again - is that really so? I look at the thoughts again … is the thought as real as the bed I’m lying on? The answer has to be, the answer is, no.

Look at something near you.... your hand even.

What is seen?
What is not?

Look at anything.
Anywhere.
Any time.

What is seen?
What is not?

There is hand, there’s dog, a blanket. I can touch these, they seem real enough. I notice the thoughts, a thought, and another thought. Happening. As real as the dog? In the sense that both a thought and the dog exist, yes. The thought arises in the awareness - as the dog does. Is there an owner of the thought? (frustration as I look again) Is it my thought? Is there an I thinking them? Looking again, there’s no I to be found, no me to be thinking. There's no one owning the dog either. Lucky dog :)

And when you hit a brick wall, just maybe you'll do what's being asked which is to notice that a speck of dust is more real than the self. A droplet of dew is more real than the self has ever been or can ever be.

How is that true? In what way is that true?

I know what the standard answer is, and that’s part of the problem. I can rattle off all the lines about, yes, it’s true! There is no self, I can see that now! Just thoughts arising, no controller … only thoughts, just an idea arising and falling away … things just happening. That’s the rub - I know what to say, and there’s even a belief that it's true - I’ve even glimpsed it, albeit fleetingly -

but

until there’s an experience of this and the truth of it happening, then there’s no answer - yet.

The past 48 hours I’ve been looking - looking while walking, looking while watching tv, looking while writing, looking while sitting and thinking, looking while sitting and trying not to think. There’s the seeing that things are just happening of their own accord, and that Pauline is happening and that Pauline thoughts are happening. It’s clear there is no thinker, and no controller - the stickiness of the controller is strong however - well, the stickiness of it all is strong, let’s be honest. All there is to happen is to keep looking. I see now that that’s all there is to do.

I’m going to spend some time over the next couple of days just looking and reading GG and delving into more forum stuff - it feels that’s what needed. I just wanted to give you another brain-dump of what’s going on - sorry for the lengthy train of thought stuff. I’ll report in ad hoc as the weekend unfolds.

As always, with gratitude :)

[Bill]

Hi frustrated Pauline :)

I'd like you just to keep with this.. maybe lessen the intensity some (if that's possible)
keep reading the Gateless Gatecrashers pdf....
You are already looking (and a whole lot of thinking), you just need to notice that you are doing it.
Its what I would call our base awareness, its impossible not be looking really unless you're asleep.
You have a lot of critical analysis going on.. way more than what is wanted (or even needed) to see this.
At some point I'd like this analysis to turn into simply pure looking.
in fact an overabundance of this can be hindrance here as it keeps us in thinking and not looking.
The 'answer' is not in the mind or in solving a mental puzzle.
You're not the first one to arrive at this spot of being frustrated like this..
Maybe back off some with the intensity. Maybe use something like
"Stop thinking for a minute..... and just look."

Here are a few pointers I found. Please do not analyze them.. No comments needed..
Just take them in. Let them be heard.

-------

The goal is not to remain in a state of zombie like "looking" or "no thinking", but only in order to find out how the whole mechanism works – how come there seems to be a self once in a while? What is it made of? We're not trying to do or be something other than what we already are. And for sure not in order to get rid of supposed self..., just to find out what is going on, from a position of seeing what's there.


If you write a name on a piece of paper, will the piece of paper be that name? If you get a pet and give it a name, will the pet be that name? Or will it just be a pet you named in that way? Was the pet breathing and eating and drinking before you gave it that name? And how about you. If you had another name, would you still be breathing and eating and drinking? If you had no name at all, would breathing, eating, and drinking still be happening? Breathing, eating, and drinking are happening to no one. They are just happening. There is nothing and nobody behind the experiencing.

Do you feel there is a self that is doing, feeling, thinking? The illusion is the belief in a “you” actually doing, feeling, or thinking anything. Look at your thoughts and see if you can control any thought. Is there a controller of thought? Is there a thinker? If you look carefully, you will realize there is nothing — no “you” controlling or thinking. There is only thinking happening, plus the habit of thinking that there is a “you” who is thinking, doing, hearing, etc. Actually, everything is happening now out of nothing.

Are you really in control of the actions you experience? Do “you” send messages to your muscles telling them to operate? To your eyes telling them to see? To your brain telling it to understand? Do you tell the wind to blow or the sun to shine? Aren’t these happening all by themselves, without a story of “you” required to make them happen?

Now in any circumstance, any situation, in the past or in an imagined future — can there ever be a you which is not an idea, thought, or habit? In this very moment, is there a “you” which is not an idea? The truth is really simple and obvious. It takes a little courage to look, but once recognized it will become clear. Look in immediate experience. Is there a self, other than habitual thoughts of a self? Has there ever been anything but a story about you?

There are no words to adequately describe how to see, no maps of how to get there; all I can do is Point to where you should look. This is not a mental exercise; all the thinking you can ever do will never get you there. I will give you clue, because I was also a Thinker. Just before I saw it, I suddenly realised that my guide was telling me to LOOK, not to Think. When I looked, I saw it.What is Looking? It is focusing on your Direct Experience. Seeing with the eyes, hearing with the ears, feeling with the skin, smelling with the nose, tasting with the tongue. Sensation, before it is judged and labeled, is direct experience.

Look at a chair. Do you see the chair? Look at your self. Do you see a self?



this is your question:

Today as you move around in your ordinary life, check and see if you can find a “self” moving the body around — walking, driving, eating, typing, picking up a cup. Is there a “who” living your life? Or are there thoughts about everything, including a self, apparently living your life? Check it... really look in your experience...Is there a doer doing all this.. or is this doing simply happening? You don’t have to decide or believe anything at all. Just look at the evidence. Keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Simply keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought that owns and directs the body.

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill

There has been an easing of the frustration - felt better to let go. Phew! Space is so much better - there was much of it around the past couple of days.

this is your question:

Today as you move around in your ordinary life, check and see if you can find a “self” moving the body around — walking, driving, eating, typing, picking up a cup. Is there a “who” living your life? Or are there thoughts about everything, including a self, apparently living your life? Check it... really look in your experience...Is there a doer doing all this.. or is this doing simply happening? You don’t have to decide or believe anything at all. Just look at the evidence. Keep returning to this focus on the thoughts as you move around. Simply keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought that owns and directs the body.

So I was having a walk - for the sake of this, let’s use the ‘I’ thing, rather than, ‘So there was walking happening’ … I went for a walk, and there was looking. There was a lot of looking yesterday and today, and in a more spacious way. Something different seemed to occur … (I) was walking along and looked at what was going on around me - so the houses and the river and people and then there was something that clicked … realisation that it was all happening with no self involved in any of it. River was flowing, path was there, people were walking and noticing no self was involved in any of it, everything was just occurring … there was checking of the body … one foot in front of the other, holding the dog, thoughts, seeing, hearing, but no listener, no see-er. There was no self to be seen. This seemed very obvious, and very clear - and very very simple. The only way I can say this happened is by an open kind of looking - I think before that I’d been trying to look with my mind, my thoughts (and overanalyzing as we know). There was checking of this throughout the remainder of the day, and today … I notice I’m trying to get that clarity back - to remind myself (yeah, I know - no self to remind) what I noticed. I know it can’t be held onto. I’m not going to overthink … just notice and keep looking, and the looking as much as possible or is remembered. Well, what can I say really - there was a noticing of no self anywhere and that shift was felt. All there is to do is keep lookin, just lookin and more lookin.

(ps regularly reading GG and finding it very useful)

Over to you, Bill!

[Bill]

Great to hear this! This will be our focus from now on..... you looking and telling what you notice.
Can you see this can be talked about and analyzed ad infinitum and totally miss the point?
Understanding is for a self.. the one that doesn't really exist. Its also the booby prize in this.
There is no self that needs to understand anything. This has to be seen and felt.

Notice that the looking just happens on its own. There is no you making it happen.
Has this not always been the case? Has looking not always been happening, since you've been alive?
Can looking really be turned on and off? Is there a person in there switching the looking on and off?

We perceive things. Labeling happens immediately, and then the stories start.
It feels like the “I” is the controller. But is it really? Or is the “I” just another story?

Can you see the story of Pauline? The conditioning that accumulates since your childhood is like coat after coat being put over reality, so that life becomes more and more weighty, tight and confined. One by one, these coats can be looked at, and seen. Some may hang on, some may disappear and dissolve. Each time this happens, it is a small liberation.

While this is super fresh for you.. I'd appreciate it if you could just give me a freehand rant of what you're experiencing.
What are you noticing? Oh and its fine to use personal pronouns. It really sounds strange when people do not as its how we normally communicate. We can use I, me mine etc and see that it is really only an illusion.

Also.....
There is no self. Is it true? Look!

[PaulineF]

Hi Bill

Let’s dive in. You’ve asked lots of questions and tbh I’m not sure you want me to answer each of them but here we go …

Great to hear this! This will be our focus from now on..... you looking and telling what you notice.
Can you see this can be talked about and analyzed ad infinitum and totally miss the point?

Yes, I can see that - it’s become(ing) apparent that the only thing to do is to look - all the analysis in the world won’t help … I’ve experienced the frustration of trying to work out ‘seeing’ by thinking about it … and whilst I see that thinking has a place in this process, it’s not what’s going to look.

Notice that the looking just happens on its own. There is no you making it happen.
Has this not always been the case? Has looking not always been happening, since you've been alive?
Can looking really be turned on and off? Is there a person in there switching the looking on and off?

This one feels a little different to answer, and I can feel myself analyzing again … Has looking not always been happening since I was alive? Well, I’m not sure I can state that. I can say that things happen and have always happened (if we’re talking ‘time’) but the ‘I’ was there most of the time so looking wasn’t really going on. Well, I did say I was analyzing ;) Can looking be turned on and off? No, there’s either seeing or not seeing … a shift of states, but no control. The ‘ah, yes, of course that’s how it is’, to, ‘I’m doing this and that and all the rest’. So a ‘remembering’ and ‘forgetting’ - conscious then unconcious. Grrr … I have a feeling if this was being marked I’d get a 5/10, just for missing the point :)

We perceive things. Labeling happens immediately, and then the stories start.
It feels like the “I” is the controller. But is it really? Or is the “I” just another story?

The ‘I’ is definitely another story. That is seen.

While this is super fresh for you.. I'd appreciate it if you could just give me a freehand rant of what you're experiencing.
What are you noticing?

OK - a freehand rant. Well you asked - prepare thyself!

What’s going on now is that I’m just looking when there’s remembering … I see myself walking and notice where parts of the body are and stuff’s just doing what it’s doing without a self doing any of it … it’s just happening. The environment around me is just there - also just appearing and happening without any self needing to do anything for that to be so. There’s the noticing of thoughts arising … it’s like I’m testing myself and saying, ‘I’m walking, I’m typing, I’m eating’ … and I can feel the stickiness of that, ‘I must be doing something’ - then noticing it’s just thoughts and the story, thoughts and the story. I can see when I look at the thoughts that there’s no I thinking them - they just appear and disappear appear and disappear … It’s impossible to say where they come from … so then analytics - ‘well obviously some neurochemical pathways in the brain and giving rise to the thoughts - they’re not that mysterious’ - then realising there’s missing the point … even neurochemical pathways don’t need a do-er or a self to happen… then back to looking … all this is just happening … it’s just doing it by itself, any thoughts seem like little lies … hooks to pull the looking back to the ‘I-ing’ … There’s looking, but the gate’s not been gone thru yet … it feels like I’m missing something, or didn’t get something yet … but waiting for that to unfold itself … then concern again like ‘ffs, I bet this takes forever’, then ‘so what’. The wanting to push things along, then seeing the wanting is just that … a feeling and thoughts.

I woke up in the middle of the night last night with the fear. That’s the first time that’s happened - I felt the fear about this, and I’m not sure why … it was the first thing on my mind when I awoke (too much LU reading before bed!). I think it might have been uncertainty, or doubt - maybe bits of ‘Am I ready for this?’ ‘OmG! What if I’m not’ - I - even know for sure if that’s what I was thinking, but the fear - which i don’t feel during the day or have felt at any other time - was there. I know that’s normal, but I wonder if there’s something there to explore, or if I should just notice it and do nothing (afterall, who’s going to do anything about it)

Enough of fear … In short, there is looking and noticing and seeing - I know there is no self … tho I can’t say I feel it fully and completely. It comes and goes - but I know I’m not thru the gate yet.

Also.....
There is no self. Is it true? Look!

It’s true - I’m looking!

OK, over to you :)