In search of a guide

[Edward Q]

I think I am beginning to see this a little clearer.

Sometimes on my drive home, I will become mindful of where my attention goes and have to laugh because I have noticed that My attention is directed towards the same things, day after day. The same stars.... sometimes I even wonder if there are parts of the road I have not even seen on my drive !!

Then I watch others that repeat the same patterns day after day for years.... I sometimes wonder if I could shake up the program at all by interfering with it.

It seems like everything is so connected...in a way that we couldn't possibly understand how one action effects others...
Effects us all in a way.

I can understand this, but I think I need a few days to really watch the nature of thought and decisions... as they are taking place. I think that these events happen so fast that we never really closely watch the process. I will report back in a few days what I discover.

Take care
-Ed


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[b0dhi]

Ed

I was online when your post came in. Beautiful...just beautiful. Take your time, come back when ready and shout if you need help.

Enjoy the exploration, it's giving me goosebumps :)

[Edward Q]

When I look at these various aspects of my existence, I can not find a "me" there. It feels as if I am prior to all of these things. It feels as if the ground has been taken from under me and it is quite spacious... yet I am not exactally sure where that leaves me or what to do with that.

I feel more and more like I have finished the need for a search... but a part of me also tells me that I am not quite there...


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[b0dhi]

Excellent going Ed!!

So the shell cracks open somewhat and the light starts pouring in :D

Once the false ground of our past certainty is gone, a new way of be-ing starts to emerge. Embrace the uncertainty.

I am not exactally sure where that leaves me or what to do with that.

Keep exploring, there is yet more that needs to be uncovered.

I feel more and more like I have finished the need for a search... but a part of me also tells me that I am not quite there...

When you are done, you will know that you are done :)

Now tell me, in this new "spaciousness", can you find an inside and an outside? Describe it.

What about the body? How is it appearing?

The senses, talk to me about them. What is seeing? Hearing? Tasting? Smelling?

Where is "Ed" in all this?

Keep the expansion going... great work!!

[Edward Q]

Excellent going Ed!!

So the shell cracks open somewhat and the light starts pouring in :D

Once the false ground of our past certainty is gone, a new way of be-ing starts to emerge. Embrace the uncertainty.

I am not exactally sure where that leaves me or what to do with that.

Keep exploring, there is yet more that needs to be uncovered.

I feel more and more like I have finished the need for a search... but a part of me also tells me that I am not quite there...

When you are done, you will know that you are done :)

Now tell me, in this new "spaciousness", can you find an inside and an outside? Describe it.

What about the body? How is it appearing?

The senses, talk to me about them. What is seeing? Hearing? Tasting? Smelling?

Where is "Ed" in all this?

Keep the expansion going... great work!!

Bodhi,
I just want to thank you for all of your time and help you have given me. I live in an area where inquiry is unheard of and it is challenging to find help. Thank you.

I am sorry for the long length, I was trying to write everything that came up in my experience.

"Now tell me, in this new "spaciousness", can you find an inside and outside ? Describe it. "

I have been observing this spaciousness for awhile now. Only until now did I think that there was something wrong with me !!
The spaciousness is peaceful. It is in conflict with nothing... it is almost as if it is the background. Simply the screen that life is dancing on. I told myself that I was loosing focus... that I was tired, or somehow my brain has become withdrawn. It seemed this way because it lacked the contraction of maintaining a self. When you have a self for experience to land on, it is easy for something to be a problem....easy for something to be going good or bad, etc. I am starting to experience this openness just for what it is. There is nothing there to obscure what is.

It seems like all of the events that arise ( physical form, thoughts, emotion) happen so fast that we never look closely at them. We squeeze all of these aspects together and create a story. The story can sometimes be subtle, but it is always in relation to "me".

I don't think that it is inside or outside, it is always present... but I don't think we notice it when we are caught in the thoughts and emotions of the story.


"What about the body? How is it appearing ? "

One thing that comes to mind is that I only experience a small portion of the body at a time. There is not an experience of the back of my head. It is as if it does not exist, unless It is involved in the senses/thought. Right now, I feel a tension on the butt and legs while sitting. There is vision of arms and hands holding a phone. There is vision of legs. And the pressure of fingers touching the screen. The actions of the body seem to be arising without any effort from a "me".


"What is seeing?"

There are colors, shapes and depth. There is a sense that objects with more depth are further away from my experience. ( ME ? )

The focal point moves. When an object enters the focal point, there is a subtle thought in the mind that states what this object is. Some objects have a story attached to them. For example people and places. Of all of the senses, the shift in focus seems the most controlled by "Me".

Hearing ?

A flood of sounds. When a sound stands out within the environment, the mind has a tendency to subtly label what is making the sound. Loud or harsh sounds cause a contraction in the body. ( My daughter whining ) Beautiful sounds create the tendency to drop all contraction and open to the sound.

Tasting/ Smelling ?

To be honest, I have never really considered taste or smell while looking deeply. They seem to be like my back of the head example, you don't really notice them until it is happening.

I am not really sure how to describe them. They arise from the nose/mouth. Different tastes and smells have different experiences to them.

"Where is "Ed" in all this?"

This morning when I wrote about the spaciousness, everything seemed like it was becoming clear. Now I am finishing what I have found here, and again I seem like I am getting further away from the truth. My experience now says that the "Ed" is a converging of all of the senses. It doesn't at all feel like a fixed point, but a witnessing of life. It seems like the senses create an illusion of things to be sensed ( out there ) and the body sensing these things, and then there is "Me" behind all of that.

-Ed









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[b0dhi]

Hi Ed

Thank you for your explanation. The detail you have provided, together with the explanation gives me a real good sense of where you are at, and what we need to work on next.

I just want to thank you for all of your time and help you have given me. I live in an area where inquiry is unheard of and it is challenging to find help. Thank you.

You are most welcome. And thank you for applying yourself so diligently :)

It seems like the senses create an illusion of things to be sensed ( out there ) and the body sensing these things, and then there is "Me" behind all of that.

Let's look a bit deeper here.

Starting with touch. I'd like you to do the following:

1. Find a comfortable chair to sit on and relax. Close your eyes.
2. Become aware of the contact point between body and chair.
3. As you focus on the quality of the sensation, find out where Ed ends and the chair begins. Can you find the gap between "Ed" and "Chair"?
4. Once you are ready with the answer to "3." above, find out where "Ed" is in this sensation. Can you find an "Ed" that is feeling/sensing?

Warm regards

[Edward Q]

Bodhi,
I have finished the exercise you wrote.

When I become aware of the contact point between body and chair, there is no distinction between the two within the experience. There is just the sensation itself. There is no "Ed" in this. The experience just arises, and there is nothing for it to land on.

I have noticed when I watch touch at other times, it seems like the mind automatically wants to identify where it is coming from and what objects are involved. It seems like an automatic response.

I am starting to get a glimpse that there is no "Ed" for all of these experiences to land on.

I can sometimes experience this when I am very in the now, and it is easier when I look closely and there is not a good deal to process.

I have heard many times before that there is no "you" and knew it on a mental level, but this small glimpse today seemed like it was a knowing that was not in the mind, but somehow deeper.

-Ed


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[b0dhi]

Excellent work Ed!

I have noticed when I watch touch at other times, it seems like the mind automatically wants to identify where it is coming from and what objects are involved. It seems like an automatic response.

Exactly - a whole World is created and we are unaware it is happening.

Now try to find a hear-er in hearing. A see-er in seeing. A smell-er in smelling. A tast-er in tasting.

Immerse yourself in this, try and find where "Ed" is in all of these direct experiences. Have fun, play with it. Seriousness creates a whole bunch of thinking which can get in the way.

Once you have had a good shot at these, go back to them and find the point at which the sense operates and the thinking begins. You will need to be very attuned and aware for this, so be patient and give it time. And have fun :)

When you are sensing - is there an "I"?
When you are thinking - is there an "I"?
How is this "I" being created?
Is this "I" a requirement for the direct experience of life?

I have heard many times before that there is no "you" and knew it on a mental level, but this small glimpse today seemed like it was a knowing that was not in the mind, but somehow deeper.

Do the exercises above with the intention of getting to this deeper knowing, the real truth. After all, thoughts about the truth can only point at the truth, they cannot be the truth :)

Warmest regards

[Edward Q]

Bodhi,
I hope you had a nice weekend !

"Try to find a hear-er in hearing."

Sounds arise and they fill my existence.
There is just the sounds, there is no separation between hearing and heard.

"A see-er in seeing"

This is much harder to see than hearing.
It doesn't exactally feel like a see-er and seen, but it doesn't fill my experience like sound does. It actually brings a sense of aggitation trying to understand what I am exactally looking for.

"A smell-er in smelling"

It seems as if there is no smell and smeller, aside from the sensations of the nose smelling. Again, it is a little difficult to figure out what I am looking at.

"A taste-er in tasting "

This seems to be easier to see. Like sound, taste fills my experience. The sensations of taste appear and then fall away.


"Try and find where "Ed" is in all of these direct experiences. "

In the experiences it feels like there is just the experience. I don't feel like there is an "Ed" while I am experiencing them. I am now looking at my cellphone screen, I can hear the tapping of my fingers and the sounds outside. There is an awareness that these experiences are happening, but there is nothing here to claim them.

"Go back to them and find the point at which the sense operates and the thinking begins"

As I have said earlier, my mind is usually very quiet. I do not notice any thoughts that arise from these experiences. Either I do not have much thought around these senses, or I am not paying enough attention ?? I am not sure. I have been trying to find an "Ed" and thoughts that surround these and nothing is coming up.

"When you are sensing - is there an 'I' ?"

There is no "I" when I am sensing. On a side note, I have noticed a tension within the body at times. I am not sure if it is related to what we are doing here, but it feels like tension within the center of my body...unease. I sometimes notice it when I am caught up in what I am doing or not being particularly mindful in that moment. It is similar to the feeling of tension when you are cold. I was wondering if it could somehow be a feeling of "I" ? Something tense within the body that is trying to have a solid feeling of something to protect or something that needs to hold this experience together ? I notice that the vastness is harder to experience when this tension arises.

"When you are thinking - is there an 'I' ? "

In relation to thought after sensing, I am not sure. I think I have to develop my ability to be more in the now, in order to be certain.

"Is this 'I' a requirement for the direct experience of life ? "

No. The experiences each come, there is a certain "awareness" of the experience. There is no "I" that watches the experiences, just the pure experience itself, then is descends back into nothingness.

-Ed










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[b0dhi]

Excellent work Ed!!

My weekend was fabulous, hope you had a good one too. Seems you were busy being "sense"ible with all these exercises ;)

So you are now at a place where there is no you in think-ing, no you in sense-ing. What remains?

Let's clear up some of the things that stand out from your post:

"A see-er in seeing"

This is much harder to see than hearing.
It doesn't exactally feel like a see-er and seen, but it doesn't fill my experience like sound does. It actually brings a sense of aggitation trying to understand what I am exactally looking for.

Here's a little exercise called "taking non-selfies" :) Basically, it's taking a snap-shot with the eyes and then noticing what is going on. Please do the following:

1. Find a location where you can stand in the centre of a room, with a different view on all sides of you.
2. Facing any direction, close your eyes.
3. Turn in any direction of your choice while still remaining in the centre of the room.
4. Open and close your eyes for a very short period - like a camera shutter, or a reverse blink.
5. Notice what happens during the snap shot and after. Adjust the length of time the eyes are open from a very short period (the quickest unblink you can manage) to a longer period (say 2 seconds). Find the optimal period of exposure that works for you.
6. Repeat this a few times by turning to a new view each time until there is something to report about the experience during see-ing and after-seeing.
7. Walk around and carry this out in different locations. You do not have to necessarily spin on your axis whilst walking around in public locations - people may think you're crazy!! :) Just take a snap shot of a new view and watch the processes.

On a side note, I have noticed a tension within the body at times. I am not sure if it is related to what we are doing here, but it feels like tension within the center of my body...unease. I sometimes notice it when I am caught up in what I am doing or not being particularly mindful in that moment. It is similar to the feeling of tension when you are cold. I was wondering if it could somehow be a feeling of "I" ? Something tense within the body that is trying to have a solid feeling of something to protect or something that needs to hold this experience together ? I notice that the vastness is harder to experience when this tension arises.

Once you have completed the first exercise, go into this feeling of "I", this sensing of it. Ask it what it is and what it wants. Remain silent and let some answers come to you.

Warm regards, looking forward to your response.

[Edward Q]

Bodhi,

I have completed the exercise you have provided. I think I might be missing what this exercise is pointing to.

Experience during seeing:

My eyes are closed, there is blackness. When I open my eyes, a flash of colors and shapes that make up the new scene. The eyes focus and the intensity of the color is felt on the eyes.


Experience after seeing:

Darkness appears again. For a fraction of a second, the scene stays in memory, until the darkness engulfs everything. There are no thoughts that form, no emotions arise.


This tension or I sense, Ask what it is and what it wants:

When I inquire about this tension, I get a feeling that it is a defensive posture. It is a tension you would have when you are avoiding something. For example when you are cold, or if someone is going to hit you. It is a feeling of protection against "the outside world" perhaps.

This feeling is not always present, and seems quite automatic.

It may also be worth mentioning that today I noticed a few "stories" that came up that are deeply rooted in the "me" sense.

Since doing this investigation, I have noticed that something seems to be shifting. I cant really explain it, but today a story arose in the mind that I am somehow special.

Later in the day, another story arose that I am not worthy of the time and effort you are putting forth for me to get this.

I can understand that they are both manufactured by the mind, but thought it was interesting that it was a reference to "me"

The problem with having little thought activity throughout the day is that these thoughts that are obviously "self" referring and could be happening much more than I realize !

I have lately been felt drawn to be more aware of the present moment. I think that it will be useful in this inquiry.

Take care
-Ed


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[b0dhi]

Hey Ed - well done, great work.

I think I might be missing what this exercise is pointing to.

You have not missed the point at all. You're reporting what you found, which is exactly what is required - good honest looking :)

So the sequence that occurs is: blackness -> image -> blackness -> scene memory

Let's start to break this down a little bit. When you open your eyes, there is an image. This consists, as you say, of shapes and colours. Then you close your eyes, and for a short time you have an impression of that image.

The image you see when you open your eyes is a scene, and presumably there are objects in it. Say, a table, chairs, a window, a vase, a door, some shadows, some books and so on.

At what time during the taking of your snapshot do these "objects" get named (or labelled)? At what time does an image become a collection of objects?

Is it before you open your eyes, when the eyes are momentarily open, or after you close your eyes and see the "after-image".

Try this a few times, experiment with changing scenes and points of view, and then share what comes up.

The problem with having little thought activity throughout the day is that these thoughts that are obviously "self" referring and could be happening much more than I realize !

This is interesting, and we shall pursue this a bit later on. The thoughts that are coming up are fine, not a problem at all. As you suspect there may be more thought activity than you are aware of going on, and this is probably coupled with the tension you feel as “protection”.

Good going. Let me know how you get on with the non-selfies ☺

Have fun!!

[Edward Q]

Bodhi,

I have again completed "taking non-selfies" exercise again and this is what I found:

" At what time during the taking of your snapshot do these "objects" get named (or labeled ) ? "

"Is it before you open your eyes, when the eyes are momentarily open, or after you close your eyes and see the "after image" ?

I have found that this "labeling" is extremely subtle. The mind quickly groups certain colors and shapes together in order to form each object. It is more of a subtle "knowing" that one object has ended and the other begins.

It seems that most of what I looked at, the mind made this distinction almost immediately.

I also played around with an online photo randomizer to see if it would make a difference of not knowing ahead of time what I would be seeing, and found that it took the mind slightly longer to make this distinction.

-Ed


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[b0dhi]

Great Ed

One more addition - when do these shapes turn into words that you can hear? Say you see an image, then the image becomes a collection of "subtly known" objects. At which point can you hear a word naming the object - say "table" or "tree"?

During these exercises have you always known what the image was going to be before you took the snapshot? If so, what changes when you do not know?

[Edward Q]

Bodhi,

"When do these shapes turn into words you can hear ?"

They turn into words a second after I see the image.

"During these exercises have you always known what the image was going to be before you took the snapshot?"

No, I didn't know the specifics.
When I am in a room and close my eyes and turn to a different perspective, then open them, I have at least an idea of what I am likely to see based off of the rest of the room. When I complete the exercise in this way, the brain labels faster.

When I use the randomizer, I don't have any reference of what will be seen exactally and it takes a little bit longer to label.

-Ed


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