Surrender

[Hannah B-T]

Yes, that us what I am saying... that it seems impossible that all of these miracles appear randomly, without an intelligence.

If there wasn't one, doesn't it just make it even more miraculous?

No perceptual experience of a brain can be found. When I look for a brain I see nothing. Some images of a brain appear. Some thoughts... "of course there is a brain" appear and disappear.

Good.

No, no experience of a brain directing the body right now can be found.

great. So where are things looking with control. Has any sort of self/I entity been found controlling thoughts or the body?
Let me know if there is any lack of clarity around that still.

Yes thoughts do come up saying things opposing what is actually seen. I am not really comfortable though. I have persistent thoughts now that maybe this is all a con and I am being sucked in to yet another "Non-duality drama" ;) then I am o.k with that.re.

Ok. So how could you resolve the thoughts saying 'this is a con?' How about checking again in experience, as much as is needed to be confident i'm not selling you a load of crap here. I really, honestly just want to help development of a trust in what the evidence of your own inquiry and perception reveals. That is the only place and way this searching will be resolved.

What is holding me back from accepting the simplicity of my direct looking is definitely fear of illness to the body.

i'm not sure what you mean here, can you give me more detail about these fear ideas? What are they saying is the problem?

xx

[Colour]

Great point re. everything being even more miraculous without a creator. Yes, definitely.
The control thing is not looking very likely according to my investigative looking so far. No identity or self has been seen controlling thoughts and body.

The thoughts saying this is a con, were seen to be just thoughts, like any thought. Passing through.
I am developing more trust, thanks to you, by habitually looking and seeing what is there. Or not. A fair bit of conditioning there, but remembering to check it out, is helping.

Re. Fear of illness. Whenever there is physical imbalance, there is looping of thoughts that create a self that is in pain, or a self that may not get better, or a self if well now, may not be in the future.

All of this is quite funny given what you have shown me. So since writing that I have looked at the thoughts when they arise. Like, " You shouldn't have this inflammation, you look after your body. You must have done something wrong, eaten something wrong, blah blah blah. " then I looked for the one who is sick and there is no one there. How can I be to blame when I am not? Such an old program that has been running for over 40 years. A lie!!!!!!!
I hope this recognition stays. That's funny too, right?

Xx



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[Hannah B-T]

The control thing is not looking very likely according to my investigative looking so far. No identity or self has been seen controlling thoughts and body.

Ok, what seems to need to happen to get from 'not very likely' to 'completely confident' on this?
This answer may just be a bit more time now looking seems to be happening well, as you said 40 years of thoughts saying things are a certain way doesn't suddenly disappear.
But let me know if more exercises or guidance around choice/control would be helpful at this point.

The thoughts saying this is a con, were seen to be just thoughts, like any thought. Passing through.

lovely.

I am developing more trust, thanks to you, by habitually looking and seeing what is there. Or not. A fair bit of conditioning there, but remembering to check it out, is helping.

yes, there is almost a 'tipping point' often with this, where it goes from the content of what thoughts say about a self, an I not being questioned/beleived automatically, to them naturally being questioned and exposed as not accurate by looking at experience on a regualr basis (not necessarily 24/7!).

Part of this guidance is to keep focus on that until it becomes the default position. once that 'new program' is running, you won't need a guide any longer, as things continue to unfold themselves.
That is not the same as things being 'over' or 'done', can you see?
It's almost like the difference between feeling tense and like it's all hard work- like pushing a rock up a steep hill, then reaching the top and relaxing as you can now watch it start slowly rolling down the other side...

Fear of illness. Whenever there is physical imbalance, there is looping of thoughts that create a self that is in pain, or a self that may not get better, or a self if well now, may not be in the future.

thank you for explaining this- yes, concerns about the body are often more difficult to see through because the idea 'i am this body' can be really ingrained and connected to visceral fear reactions about protecting this body.
The way through this is, as you have realised, to see through the idea that there is a self existing as or inside the body.

Sit quietly with your eyes closed on a seat and go to any experience labelled 'body'. go to a particular body part if that helps. What is found? images of body parts (this can be subtle)? sensations. Really try to stay with the raw sensations alone rather than words or images.
then ask
'is there anything about these raw sensations themselves saying anything a self, i, me, Louise?'

then I looked for the one who is sick and there is no one there. How can I be to blame when I am not? Such an old program that has been running for over 40 years. A lie!!!!!!!
I hope this recognition stays. That's funny too, right?

beautiful. Laughter is a great sign. Some people call insight 'the cosmic joke'

xx

[Colour]

Hi Hannah,

Sorry, I am on a conference interstate for a few days and was unable to respond yesterday.

Yes, I agree being more confident will just take more and more looking.
Yes I understand about it not being over just because I am seeing nothing is there. I am happy to keep looking and seeing every time I forget.
Wow, that exercise on the body was very difficult! So many words and images that it was difficult to stay with raw sensation for very long. The small looking did reveal nothing there saying an I, me, Louise.
This will be a great thing to do often until it is known for sure that I am not this body.

Thanks Hannah xx



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[Hannah B-T]

No problem thanks for letting me know about your travels.

Yes, it's great you are noticing how much ideas and especially images are layered onto the raw sensory experience labelled body.

Take a look at this-

Is there a certain part of the body, place in the body or set of sensations that feel more like 'you' than others? For instance if i say take your right index finger and point to 'you', where does the finger end up pointing to? Give it a try.

x

[Colour]

So right now there is a bit of pain in the body. So when I look, the areas of pain feel like me. If I take my right index finger and point to me, it points to my brain or head.

Xx


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[Hannah B-T]

Ok, let's examine more closely-

What exactly in the raw sensation of pain says anything about a self? What makes those sensations 'personal'? Or is there other stuff going on as well?

if those sensations are 'you'- then is there multiple yous in each sensation? And what happens to this 'you' when the painful sensations subside?

Look carefully at why you pointed to the head. Is it just due to ideas about 'I am the brain' (which we've already established in experience is not even something we can find right now)
Or are there particular sensations in the face/head area that feel more 'you' or personal again. if so can you describe them to me in more detail?

thanks

[Colour]

There is nothing in the actual sensation of pain that says anything about a self. The proximity of this body makes the sensations seem personal. Yes, the other stuff going on are words describing the pain. Using the names me or I.
Ha! That comment wondering whether there are multiple "I's'" in the painful sensations made me laugh at the silliness of it all. When the painful sensations subside, the "me" moves to another area of the body. As the pain is pretty full on I have been unable to check that often.
Pointing to the head to show where Me resides, is all about the familiar voice and narration that goes on there. That voice is so recognisable and "personal" but when I look to see why I think that, it is just another thought. Nothing there.
Louise x



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[Hannah B-T]

There is nothing in the actual sensation of pain that says anything about a self.

Great to see!

The proximity of this body makes the sensations seem personal.

Ok, but do some sensations seem more personal than others? For instance do the sensations labelled sadness or shame feel more personal than stubbing your toe or getting a headache? If so what is going on there?

Yes, the other stuff going on are words describing the pain. Using the names me or I.

Good to notice.

Ha! That comment wondering whether there are multiple "I's'" in the painful sensations made me laugh at the silliness of it all. When the painful sensations subside, the "me" moves to another area of the body. As the pain is pretty full on I have been unable to check that often.

This is going well, it can be very tricky to see this stuff, just keep checking when possible, maybe when then sensations aren't so intense. Maybe ask as a pointer-

Is there a self, Louise here separate to these painful sensations, experiencing them?
Can such a thing be found?

Pointing to the head to show where Me resides, is all about the familiar voice and narration that goes on there.

ok. this is an interesting one. We say 'voice in the head' right in normal language. Fair enough, but let's actually examine that phrase.

Is there any evidence in experience that the voice is coming from inside the head? Could a neuroscientist find this voices location if they opened your skull?Is the voice a solid physical thing that can be contained within the skull?
Is it even a 'real voice' like someone else speaking to you? Or is it more a certain form of thought?
And do thoughts actually have a physical location?

s all about the familiar voice and narration that goes on there. That voice is so recognisable and "personal" but when I look to see why I think that, it is just another thought. Nothing there.

Lovely, yes.
Does all this feel ok to examine? Sometimes things can start getting a bit weird at this point.

[Colour]

Hi Hannah,

Thanks for your help. Yes, the sensations of sadness feel more personal than stubbing the toe. It seems that way here as there are far more thoughts about sadness than toe stubbing.

It has been very difficult to look these past few days as pain has been a little intense. When it calms I cannot find a separate Louise who is experiencing them. When it is happening, though, I really feel like an I is there experiencing the pain. Tough one.

No, there is no evidence that the voice is coming from the head. It seems so close though, as opposed to hearing something further away. As far as I know neuroscientists have never found a mind, or thoughts in a brain. No, the voice is not anything that can be found. It is another thought.
I don't know if thoughts have a physical location.

I feel really stuck this week. So much identification with the body. Things are not getting weird, but there is definitely agitation. I find it hard not to find anyone here that is experiencing these physical sensations which are not liked. Pain really contracts and heaps of story comes up and it feels like it is me experiencing it all.

Xx


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[Hannah B-T]

Thank you for being so candid about your current experience. It is really helpful.
Let me tell you a short story.

I was on a silent meditation retreat when I first clearly saw through the illusion of self. But it wasn't in the end all the meditation, reflection etc that catalysed things.

It was the flu. Everyone on the retreat got the flu, really badly. I was in bed for 2 days, hardly able to drink water or move. It was intense.

And then there was some sort of surrendering to the pain and physical suffering. It was clear there was at this point no choice at all but to do so, even if it meant death.

Dive into the pain. Relax into it.
What is there here that could be overwhelmed by these sensations?

It's not the pain that is the problem. It's safe to let go and feel it fully. It's aliveness at it's most raw and intense.

I don't say these things lightly, and i'm aware thoughts might be telling me to fuck off right now!

Things are going well. And there is no rush.

xx

[Colour]

Many tears here after reading your post. You have hit the heart, perfectly summing up everything that I am experiencing. I will rest with this for a few days and get back to you. Thank you so, so much xxx


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[Hannah B-T]

much love and that's fine, just write again when you feel able.
x

[Colour]

Hi Hannah,
The resistance to pain is soooooo strong, I found it very difficult to relax into it and feel the raw sensations. I noticed so many beliefs attached to the pain. I looked into those and could see they were just thoughts. Then the pain became intense again and the thoughts automatically arise with it. I took ibubrofen and when that kicked in, continued looking, but I guess that is not as effective. Surrendering still not happening all the time. Should I do any work with the beliefs or treat them all as thoughts passing?

Xx


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[Hannah B-T]

The resistance to pain is soooooo strong,

what is this resistance made of?

I noticed so many beliefs attached to the pain. I looked into those and could see they were just thoughts.

Great to see this, yes.

Then the pain became intense again and the thoughts automatically arise with it.

Yes, this will continue to happen. why should it stop? The inquiry here is to question when the thoughts are then talknig about an I feeling/experiencing or being affected by the pain, can that entity 'I' separate to the pain be found in experience?

I took ibubrofen and when that kicked in, continued looking, but I guess that is not as effective.

Take whatever you need to, this is not an exercise is how much suffering can be tolerated! In fact if the sensations are too intense it can make looking into what's happening almost impossible. Treat the body with kindness.

Surrendering still not happening all the time

Forget ideas like 'all the time'. All that can be looked at is what is or is not apparently happening right now...and now.....and now....

Should I do any work with the beliefs or treat them all as thoughts passing?

Again, at this stage specifically if you notice the belief thought contain ideas about An I, me, doing or experiencing something, then test that idea back against the current experience and see if it stands up to scrutiny. Can such a thing ever be found?'

xx