Assistance wanted

[Tbarnes]

Hello
I have been unwell for few days and also at team meeting/retreat for the Buddhist charity I work for, I will reply soon with my findings as it has been central to my experience the last few days. Thanks for your patience

[Ghata]

Thank you for your notification.

I am looking forward to hearing about your findings.

[Tbarnes]

The raw sense perception is there is no sense perception of I. I search my senses and find no me, only that experience through the sense door.
The interpretation is that I am smelling, I am hearing, etc. Quite contradictory to experience.

[Ghata]

The raw sense perception is there is no sense perception of I. I search my senses and find no me, only that experience through the sense door.The interpretation is that I am smelling, I am hearing, etc. Quite contradictory to experience.

Lovely looking, Tom :-)

Right, the Interpretation is different than the raw experience through the senses.

Find out more about this Interpretation.


I have an experiment for you:

First write what you are experiencing right now using words I and me. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just plain description of here now.

Like this-
I am laying in bed. I am hearing the rain, I am typing these words..

Do it for 10 minutes. Watch the body, are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing?

Then for next 10 minutes write without words I and me. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the rain.

Again watch what is happening in the body.

Now compare the two ways to label experience- is one truer than the other? If so, which one? What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Share what feels true.

[Ghata]

Hi Tom,

are you still with me?

[Tbarnes]

Sorry it has been a busy week. I am still with you and will do the exercise tomorrow. I had meetings, a honeymoon! And house renovations!
:)
I will fully engage with the task, just wanted to give it full attention.
Apologies for my slow response

[Tbarnes]

Part 1
I am in the bathroom
I am getting ready for bath
I am thinking about this exercise
I am hot
I am feeling unwell
I am tired and I am aching
I am in the bath
I can feel the water around me
I can smell the soap
I can hear pipes and noises in the house
I am breathing deeply
I am taking intentional breaths
I am moving around a little
I am relaxing a little
I am looking at the soap and foam
I am feeling the textures of this
I am breathing slowly
I am listening to my heart slowing a bit
I am typing
Iam looking for things to type
I am thinking about my day
Iam remembering the work I have done
I am feeling tension and anger towards my partner
I am looking at the light in the room
I look at the mirror
I am pretty hot and I am sweating a little
I am enjoying the peace (relative peace)
I am breathing
I am feeling the sensations around my body
I am feeling irritable
I am sinking into the water more
I am searching for things to say
I am aware of time passing
I am staring at the phone I am using
I am opening a windows

[Tbarnes]

In the first part I experienced tension and a struggle to continuously "own" the experiences.
In many of the things I said I had to change my pattern to include a sense of self, others parts wanted to claim the experience as mine. When I said "I am irritable" i really was attached to my irritability! My body felt tension, so much attachment and identification is hard and unnecessary work
Part 2
Coughing
Seeing
Reading
Breathing
Listening
Sweating
Moving
Thinking
Scratching
Reading
Breathing
Breathing
Hearing
Hearing
Listening
Thinking
Breathing
Breathing
Smiling
Looking
Feeling
Breathing
Stretching
Moving
Smiling
Hearing
Thinking
Stretching sweating
Hearing
Breathing
Reading
Reading
Breathing
Relaxing
Breathing
Breathing
Hearing
Breathing
Humming
Reading
Smiling
Thinking
Soaking
Listening
Breathing
Breathing
Feeling
Thinking
Breathing reading
Looking
Breathing
Breathing
Listening
Sweating
Breathing
Relaxing

[Tbarnes]

All during the second part there was relaxing into experience. The labels brought about tension and negated from reality. The "I" feeds into stories and associations. The verbs just reflect the process, they add little. The verbs required thought but the experience was smoother and there is a contented feeling now after.
The constant "I" label is quite exhausting and seems to laden experience, while the verbal approach was lighter and freeer to move.
The I is embedded in ownership and this causes great tension and long stories. I know the delusory nature of self, may this permeate my general experience!

[Ghata]

Beautifully seen, Tom :-)

All during the second part there was relaxing into experience. The labels brought about tension and negated from reality. The "I" feeds into stories and associations. The verbs just reflect the process, they add little. The verbs required thought but the experience was smoother and there is a contented feeling now after.The constant "I" label is quite exhausting and seems to laden experience, while the verbal approach was lighter and freeer to move. The I is embedded in ownership and this causes great tension and long stories. I know the delusory nature of self, may this permeate my general experience!

Right, the ownership causes tensions and stories about experience.

Find out how this "I" gets attached to each experience.

Walking turns into I walk
Eating turns into I eat.

Where does the I come from and when is it added?

You find out by watching the running commentary thoughts are giving to what you are doing.

This inquiry works best with focus and intensity. It would be good if you could answer at least every other day. It needs to be seen in experience that there is no self. That is the way to become fully clear about the delusory hature of self.

Sending love,
Ghata

[Tbarnes]

It is embedded in language.
In communication the word "i" is used or "my" in order to analyse and convey context. Without it it would be challenging to communicate, however the same process is used and attaches ownership to immediate experience, which is pointlesss and hard work.

I have been keeping up intensity by using the liberation unleashed app! Most days

[Ghata]

Hi Tom,

great that you are using the app as well.

It is embedded in language.In communication the word "i" is used or "my" in order to analyse and convey context. Without it it would be challenging to communicate, however the same process is used and attaches ownership to immediate experience, which is pointlesss and hard work.

Yes, it is part of the language and after seeing through the Illusion of self, you will still use the word "I" to communicate.

When walking, "I walk" appears. When eating, "I eat" appears. Where does it come from and when is it added? Watch closely.

Sending love,
Ghata

[Tbarnes]

It just seems to come from my stream of consciousness. Not from anywhere that I can "feel" per se.It is added after the experience. To aid analyses and to ascribe meaning. When I walk and eat I do not think "I am walking". I mentioned before I do not have a strong inner voice. However when "i" appears it is in retrospect as an "observer" or "witness",

[Tbarnes]

I notice "I" most strongly if I am angry or feeling vulnerable. The "i" tries to assert itself when weakened by conflict and when vulnerable.

[Tbarnes]

The I occurs when engaging in something that has happened or in something that could.. past and future, not here and now.